Buy or pass? (Not) Colt Gold Cup Nat'l Match Mk IV Series 70
- Thread starter olivehead1
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olivehead1
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Actually, they did.
To be fair, I was a bit too quick to agree that they're a bunch of jerks. I've dealt with them for several years and they're a good bunch of guys. I think, having talked to the owner a couple months back, that he (the owner), like many others in the business, has $$$ in his eyes, and so his staff has to play the hard role even on guns that no one is rushing out the buy, including 1980s Colt 1911s and single action revolvers. They just adopt a blanket "no deals" policy even though that should probably mostly apply to plastic 9mm pistols and some compact revolvers (and ARs/AKs of course).
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Sorry but if my GC suddenly became MKIV 70, I'd lower the asking price...the fact that they don't budge on price, makes their asking price that much more toxic.
bigl1911
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Big L here 1911 has to throw a bullet in.
Great thread. I am a big believer when it comes to desire. If you like the gun, it is in good working order and it is priced right for you buy it. I not overly happy to read the seller misrepresented the gun, albeit probably ignorance being the reason.
On another subject tactical guns are going for high numbers today both new and used unless you have an "in" with a larger LGS. On the other hand, a friend of mine while we were at the range last week found a Browning Superposed that had been sitting for a year. My friend bought it at under 1K. Really good buy IMO.
Back to the 1911 -I am one of the first who will say step back from a modified gun. On the other had I have several. This is an example of a NM Marksmanship SA modified 1911. You can find one in your price point in lesser condition. Better use of your money..
Great thread. I am a big believer when it comes to desire. If you like the gun, it is in good working order and it is priced right for you buy it. I not overly happy to read the seller misrepresented the gun, albeit probably ignorance being the reason.
On another subject tactical guns are going for high numbers today both new and used unless you have an "in" with a larger LGS. On the other hand, a friend of mine while we were at the range last week found a Browning Superposed that had been sitting for a year. My friend bought it at under 1K. Really good buy IMO.
Back to the 1911 -I am one of the first who will say step back from a modified gun. On the other had I have several. This is an example of a NM Marksmanship SA modified 1911. You can find one in your price point in lesser condition. Better use of your money..
gregintenn
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I would be a hard "pass" on this particular pistol. I don't doubt somebody will buy it, however.
Benton Quest
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I think everyone is getting hung up on the whole Gold Cup thing. It is hard to say from looking at the photo, but the gun has had some decent work done...as evidenced by the melding of what is most likely a Bomar sight. That would kind of rule out Jo Jo the Gun Plumber as the builder.
If that thing runs, it will probably out perform a Gold Cup...that came with their share of problems as well.
That gun is fairly priced. Not a steal, but fair. Any Series 70 at this point should draw a decent look (provided it is a Colt frame).
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If that thing runs, it will probably out perform a Gold Cup...that came with their share of problems as well.
That gun is fairly priced. Not a steal, but fair. Any Series 70 at this point should draw a decent look (provided it is a Colt frame).
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Jack Flash
Member
Around here, Colts bring a premium. I suppose I need to go on GunBroker to find the $600 to $800 Colts referenced here. Or are they simply 1911s, but not Colts? Whether it's justified or not, Colts bring more money. That's just the way it is.
Make sure the frame and slide match. You probably don't want to pay that much for a Colt slide on a Norinco frame. Also make sure it passes all the usual tests for function, lack of abuse or heavy wear, etc.
If you are still ambivalent about buying it after thinking it over for this long, you should probably pass. Unless there are some real red flags, someone will buy it.
Make sure the frame and slide match. You probably don't want to pay that much for a Colt slide on a Norinco frame. Also make sure it passes all the usual tests for function, lack of abuse or heavy wear, etc.
If you are still ambivalent about buying it after thinking it over for this long, you should probably pass. Unless there are some real red flags, someone will buy it.
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I could be wrong but rear sight looks like standard dove tail for 1911 and front sight is just a stake on job. If this gun is from a shop there is no excuse for misrepresentation. There are going to be a lot of people with a "custom" 1911 that don't know what they have. If it's in good repair it's a shooter and should be in $800 area. Certainly worth less than original S-70 MK-4 in like condition. That is dollar value. Somebody could like it $2000 worth, there's always one.
Regardless of the value, there is something inherently wrong with pricing something at what you believe is a premium, in this case a Gold Cup, then realizing it isn't and NOT dropping your price.
Especially when you are firm on price like this LGS/Pawn. This being a pawnshop I would put money on the fact that they over loaned on this gun and are trying to recoup which is why they do not want to lower their price.
Especially when you are firm on price like this LGS/Pawn. This being a pawnshop I would put money on the fact that they over loaned on this gun and are trying to recoup which is why they do not want to lower their price.
Could be a 1K shooter but I would have to field strip it myself to look at bushing fit, might be custom fit. Slide/frame fit would have to be tight, no discernable play in any direction. Also trigger would have to be crisp, check with snap cap. Looks to be series 70 pistol so that would be a plus.
I wouldn't run away from it because it's someone's custom but if you don't know how to check those things it's risky at 1K. $800 would be more better if you can't do a hands on inspection. Lots of those in the wild, you just need to know how to check under the hood.
Forgot the grips. Take those off and check for rust. Chances are good the owner isn't going to let you field strip it so move on if that's the case.
I wouldn't run away from it because it's someone's custom but if you don't know how to check those things it's risky at 1K. $800 would be more better if you can't do a hands on inspection. Lots of those in the wild, you just need to know how to check under the hood.
Forgot the grips. Take those off and check for rust. Chances are good the owner isn't going to let you field strip it so move on if that's the case.
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It didn't leave the Colt factory in this configuration. Not worth $1200 to me as it sits. This particular Mk IV set up more as a carry/action competition gun than for bullseye. Has commander hammer. Standard grip safety is "dished" out to allow clearance. Trigger is no problem if it doesn't suit user; they are a simple, semi-fitted replacement item. Sights are replacements. Would be concerned that front sight is of proper height to work with rear, which appears to be a BoMar. Can't tell if original Colt barrel is still there or not from the photo. Be aware the fingers of an original Mk IV barrel bushing are subject to breakage a few thousand rounds in.
Herky Bird
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smoothshooter
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You are not going to be in your comfort zone on something like that ever again, I'm afraid.
The times, they are a' changin'.
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Benton Quest
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The rear of the slide has been milled to "bury" the BoMars. Without that mod, they sit comedically high.
The front sight appears to be an appropriate height...and the BoMar is adjustable.
Grip and thumb safety appear stock and unaltered.
The Commander hammer is what all the cool kids were going to because it was less of a snag hazzard and was less bitey...and looks cool.
The trigger length is a matter of personal preference based on hand size/trigger reach...keeping in mind, this will have a thinner trigger than a Gold Cup of that era.
I would be willing to bet the Collet bushing has been replaced with a more reliable solid bushing. The actual fittment of which would be a leading indicator of the quality of the rest of the pistol.
If you wanted melted BoMars, which offer a fantastic sight picture, this would be a way to get it done...as they don't make them anymore.
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With the Bo-Mar sights, commander hammer and long solid trigger, it is a modified Colt Mk IV Series 70. If the barrel and barrel bushing have been replaced and has been given a good trigger job, it would be a good shooter. The little work I see looks well done. Before COVID, if it was little fired and fully accurized by a well-known pistolsmith, it might bring a grand. There is far too much unknown about it to make it worth the asking price. Although in these COVID days, who knows? Generally accurized pistols don't increase a lot in value over the years, like an unmodified Colt Gold Cup, etc. These days 9mm pistols are much more popular than those chambered in .45 ACP.
OP
olivehead1
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I'll use this as a jumping off point for what may be my final post on the matter.
I went and took a look at the gun, and overall it is in at least very good condition. The bluing on the slide was deep and glossy and pretty much blemish free, and looks better than in the pic. A very light (but visible) idiot scratch on the left side frame (Colt) and another light scratch on the right side rear. A mild ding on the front of the trigger guard (and since the bead matte finish was mostly intact at the ding, it may very well have come from the factory like that--wouldn't be the first time I've seen such a thing). The custom worked appeared professionally and well done. The barrel bushing is marked "N M" with one letter on each side of the hole in the bushing. The gun checked out fine mechanically. The staff (very nice and professional) had to agree that it came in "a" box, not "the" box. The magazine did not appear to be Colt (blank baseplate) but a GI type with dimpled follower, maybe from Checkmate, of the type that come with a lot of Springfields (still a perfectly good mag, but a bit sticky to eject).
I brought in one of my Security Sixes to see what deal might be had, and bottom line, I could have given them the revolver plus $800 OTD. Just too much IMHO. They are bound by the owner's dictates, but said to keep an eye on it and if it lasted a couple weeks we could talk about it again. Fair enough.
I will probably keep an eye on it and hope someone buys it. For now, I feel like somebody just handed me $1,200.
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I got curious about what I paid for the gun I described in Post #35 so I pulled my paperwork. Perhaps I paid somewhat of a premium for the Gold Cup slide and Bar-Sto barrel, but the asking price I paid was significantly less that what is being asked for the gun you are inquiring about.
Was there any provenance regarding who did the work on this gun? That might be worth some kind of premium if Jim Clark or another known pistolsmith did the work.
This may be a case where you figure out an absolute out the door price and have that as a stack of dollar bills (maybe with 10 or 20 Golden Dollars on top [don't laugh, I've included 40-45 Golden Dollars to pay for a couple Colts I bought]) to put on the counter. The seller may see the bird in hand.
Clark and other custom pistolsmiths engraved the underside of the slide, where the firing pin channel is. It would say "Clark" or the other pistolsmith. There is usually a date, as well.
There isn't anything remarkable about the OP's gun as others have said. From a purely logical sense if you are having difficulty making a decision about the gun and you do buy it. You might have difficulty selling it if it doesn't meet your expectations!
I say it's a "do not buy" proposition! But then I'm not a Colt "fanboy"!
Smiles,
I say it's a "do not buy" proposition! But then I'm not a Colt "fanboy"!
Smiles,
dasnake
Member
What I did.
I have an 80 that i bought in '98 for IPSC, I did everything possible to this gun in a two year span, I don't do comp shooting anymore but I still have the 80 and I shoot it the odd time but will never get rid of it, matter of fact I told my wife to give it away to a former coworker when I leave, I have no idea what it's worth, I know what is invested but that doesn't matter a bit compared to the smile on my face whenever I have it out, I'm smiling right now.
I have an 80 that i bought in '98 for IPSC, I did everything possible to this gun in a two year span, I don't do comp shooting anymore but I still have the 80 and I shoot it the odd time but will never get rid of it, matter of fact I told my wife to give it away to a former coworker when I leave, I have no idea what it's worth, I know what is invested but that doesn't matter a bit compared to the smile on my face whenever I have it out, I'm smiling right now.
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