Buy S&W 41 or Upgrade a Ruger Mk IV??

[Redcoat3340]

I've been looking for a S&W model 41 for a while and asked for some help price-wise in the Semi-Auto section when learned by LGS may have one for $995. I got some great advice.

While I've been looking, however, I purchased a Ruger Mark IV Target as I didn't really have a good .22. I like it. Put some Hogue grips on it (not "best" but better than stock) and am waiting for two more mags.

Here's my question:

Rather than spend a grand for the Smith, what would I have to do to the Mark IV to get it close to the 41 in terms trigger and overall performance??

I figure at least some Altmont grips? (Or are there better target grips?); a new trigger (Volquartsen Pistol Competition kit at $170 or Tandemkross at $144.99??). A compensator at $59.99??

Anything else? Sights? (If I go with red dot, which one??)

While I'm thinking about getting back into casual competition, maybe a postal league, my eyes are nearly seven decades old and I ain't as steady on my pins as I used to be. Takes a couple of tries to thread a needle as well. But I hate not shooting well and maybe some upgrades might help cheat the aging process.

Wadda ya think? (Cost of the trigger kit + grips + compensator = a lot less than a grand and I get a gun that's "close" to the 41.

I have a bunch of Smiths and this would add greatly to my collection...but I can't afford $1,000 for a collector's item, I gotta shoot it as well. And for the kind of shooting I do, I don't need a 41 (but I sure would like one, but heavens, I do so hate being practical and responsible.)

Thoughts? Suggestions about upgrades?

 

[diyj98]

It depends upon your intended use. I've owned several 41's over the years, but my current Ruger Mk IV with a Volquartsen trigger shoots right up there with the 41's. The trigger still isn't quite a 41, but for my uses of casual paper punching, plinking, and varmint control it's close enough. The stock grips work fine for me and I don't need a compensator.

I'm a fan of the UltraDots. I have a Match Dot on the Ruger currently and like the ability to adjust the dot size as well as brightness.

 

[billwill]

A model 41 would be awfully hard to top. They are an outstanding firearm.

 

[Al W.]

The 41's are smooth certainly one of the smoothest, and folks use them and enjoy them , but I've seen people shoot high scores with a Ruger . They shoot fine. Practice and you will see improvements .

 

[Redcoat3340]

. Practice and you will see improvements .

I been 'practicen since 1959 or so! I figure I'm 'bout as good as I'm gonna get. (I'd just like to shoot as well as I did in the mid-90's.)

Seriously, I think I got my technique pretty much down, it's the body that ain't do'in what it's told the way it used to that I'm trying to overcome. And you are right....I do need more trigger time...so I just bought another 1,000 rounds of mini-mags.

 

[smithrjd]

Well a Model 41 will not like Mini Mags..

 

[alwslate]

$995 for a model 41? I wouldn't. I had a 5.5" model for a while. Beautiful
pistol but I was never overly impressed with it's accuracy or reliability so
I eventually traded it off at a gun show.

 

[chief38]

I love my M41 that I bought new in 1979! It is a very accurate, beautifully made and high quality .22 Target Pistol with a 2 1/8 lb. Trigger, Walnut grips and great sights. The Bluing on it (vintage model) is a highly polished Blue and has stood up quite well over the 10's of thousands of rounds I've put through it.

The new ones coming out of the S&W Factory today are still descent quality guns however they no longer have solid Walnut grips (they use Laminated Wood now), the Bluing is not as nice, the Magazines are a lesser quality and the trigger while still pretty good, is not quite as good as the vintage ones. The new ones are around $1400.00 although you might save $100 from a Dealer who is willing to discount it. A quality vintage model will set you back around $800 - $1000 depending on condition and accouterments.

The Ruger Mark l, ll & lll are not my "cup of tea" (being nice). They are highly affordable Pistols but have lousy triggers (out of he box) and are a ROYAL p.i.t.a. to disassemble. I recently shot a few new Ruger MK lV Pistols and their quality has been much improved IMO. Most importantly, they FINALLY modified the Pistol to take down in a few seconds!!! HURAY!!!!! STILL, the Trigger (out of the box) still sucks! IMHO they have "some set" calling it a "Target Pistol" with such a stiff, gritty, creepy Trigger that were on the two models I shot. Both of my friends installed the Volquartsen Trigger kits and now the Pistols have light, clean, true target quality Triggers! I think the after market parts cost them an additional $120 or so and were basically drop in parts. The Volquartsen kits took a Plinker and turned the into Target pistols - still under $600 bucks.

I do not know how much of a "quality oriented" gun owner you are, but even though the Ruger is a very viable Target Pistol (with Volq. kit installed) for half the price of the M41, they are not in the same league, IMO. Of course, you might not care and would rather save the money. I recommend that you shoot a vintage M41, a new M41 and a MK lV Ruger with the Volquartsen trigger kit installed at a local Range if you are able. Since both are very popular it should not be too difficult in finding someone who owns one or both. Then make your decision from there.

BTW I know a bunch of guys who own both the M41 and the Ruger! I see the M41 as "the quintessential .22 Target Pistol" and the Ruger MK lV as either a more affordable Target Pistol (after modification of course) or as a "Field Gun - Plinker" if left in "out of the box" condition. Again - shoot both and see!

 

[murphydog]

Well...you bought the Ruger (not a bad thing), so unless your budget or trading skills allows a model 41 haven't you already made your decision?

I like the factory wood thumbrest Target stocks for the Mark models, don't know if these fit a Mark IV however.

"Cost of the trigger kit + grips + compensator = a lot less than a grand and I get a gun that's "close" to the 41."

You forgot the purchase price of the gun, right? With that, sales tax, maybe shipping and hopefully no gunsmithing fee I get your total at around $750. That doesn't include an optic but the 41 wouldn't have one either...but with that you're perilously close to the magic $1K mark.

Personally I would hold off on accessories, shoot the Mark IV and also a model 41 as suggested above. Balance, grip angle, weight and other features of these are very different and you may decide to keep or modfiy the Ruger - best to have the information you need before spending extra. Good luck in your decisions.

 

[Hairtrigger]

You can dump a bunch of cash into a Ruger but not be able to get your money back
The 41 holds its resale value much better

 

[Farmer17]

I don't like the grip angle of the metal frame Ruger .22s so I recently bought a new condition, poly frame, Ruger 22/44 tactical off gunbroker for $235 shipped. It has nice checkered walnut grips, a Weaver rail, threaded muzzle, and no sights and I installed a Bushnell TR25 red dot sight and am waiting for my Spectre II supressor to get out jail. Trigger is decent and I might try the Volquartzen trigger some day but for now I'm happy with it and the gun is quite accurate.

 

[chief38]

I just can't do this at 50 feet with a Ruger but can with my M41. The M41 can shoot better than I can.

 

[Krogen]

I have a 41 and a Ruger MKIII target. They're different animals! I like the 41 best, but they both have their place. I installed a trigger kit in the Ruger and it did improve the break. Still it's not up to the 41. I think you'd need the services of a good gunsmith to get the Ruger up to the level of the 41, or close anyway.

As for sights, I've gone to Ultradot red dots and not looked back. Irons are a challenge for me, but I can get by with my computer glasses or "stick-on" bifocals.

I see you're also in Washington. If you're close by and want to meet me at my club, you can try my 41 and it's variety of different barrels and sights. Also the Ruger with an Ultradot.

 

[rkittine]

+1 one holding value and 41s are just such classics to own.

 

[ontargetagain]

Look for one of these: Adjustable trigger, super simple take down unlike the Ruger and no trigger mods needed, it is one of the best! Vintage mid 1970's and can be found in the $600-800 range. I owned two and they are incredible, bull bbl, adj trigger pull and adj stop all included If you have shot a S&W model 52 then you will relate to the trigger on these!

Karl

 

[GypsmJim]

In my youth I shot in a league with my Model 41. I got pretty good at it, and then because of work, kids and work travel I gave up the league.

My 41 still shoots pretty good, though not as good as before. Not a gun problem, but rather a freakin bifocal problem.

Last year I bought a Ruger Mark IV and equipped it with a green dot. Nothing fancy, and no trigger upgrades.

Even with my old eyes and weak wrists, my green dot Ruger gives me better scores than my open sight 41.

 

[Racer X]

Don't waste money on a comp for the Ruger. All it really does is add weight at the muzzle. I have a pimped out Mark III with VQ internals, the VQ laminated target grips and an Ultradot 25. It's more accurate than I am. I also have an original 22/45 with just a reworked sear, and a Mark III target upper with a Bushnell TRS25 red dot.

A Ruger with good internals, shooting decent ammo, even CCI standard velocity, can be pretty competitive.

I shoot against the top bullseye shooters in Washington, and they are Nationally ranked. I have NO delusion I will ever be that good.

I say go with the Ruger, have Sarona Gun Works go over it, or do it yourself with VQ parts. As for red dots, the most common I see among those I shoot against, are either Ultradot 25s or 30s. Some use Matchdots. Same company. Ultradot USA Home Lifetime warranty. On a budget, a Bushnell TRS25 works fine.

And remember, if you drop your Ruger, its just a Ruger. (I own 7 Rugers, NOTHING wrong with them. But you can easily buy another, or get it factory refinished by Ruger)

And if you purchased your Ruger new, it will take 3-500 rounds of high velocity ammo to get it to "work in" and burnish some parts. After that, it will function fine with standard velocity. CCI Mini-Mags work great for break in, but any HV ammo will also do.

Lots of info on these as well as 41s over at Rimfire Central I'm Racer X over there too. RimfireCentral.com - Rimfire Community!

 

[Joe Hohmann]

Before you buy any more do-dads, work on yourself. Probably both your Ruger and a model 41 exceed your current shooting skill. The downside to this is that you won't be able to blame poor scores on the new grips, trigger job, ammo, global warming, etc.

 

[Redcoat3340]

Racer X and everyone else...many, many thanks. Great stuff and it's much appreciated. Racer nailed it for me.

The 41 is out, I'll focus on finding a Sig 210 as it's my original grail gun and be more than happy with the Mk IV.

Have some better grips on order and I'll have some work done on the trigger system as well as look for a red dot.

I've got about 250 rounds through it and will wait 'till I put another 300 down the pipe before the trigger work. I had it out yesterday and I'm getting better. Tried some 25ft NRA slow fire targets at 10 yards...wow, they are small tiny little things to shoot at. Gonna take be a lotta work to get as good as I used to be, or at least as good as I remember being! (So I got some snap caps ordered.)

Again, thanks to all. (And I got more, better stuff here than on one of the Ruger forums....S&W rocks!)