C prefix one line

[chiefdave]

Did all of the early C prefix M&P revolvers have the one line MADE IN USA stamp or were they intermingled with the 4 line stamp?

 

[mbliss57]

Chiefdave maybe I am wrong but I have always understood that all of the C prefix M&Ps contained the 4 lines of writing on the frame. Or said another way, the one line "Made in USA" stopped at the S prefix M&Ps with some of the S prefixes being intermingled with the 4 lines of stamping. Someone with better expertise on this will be along to straighten us out on this!

 

[chiefdave]

Chiefdave maybe I am wrong but I have always understood that all of the C prefix M&Ps contained the 4 lines of address on the frame. Or said another way, the one line address stopped at the S prefix M&Ps with some of the S prefixes being intermingled with the 4 line address. Someone with better expertise on this will be along to straighten us out on this!

That's what I thought but I've found a revolver, C2xxx, with one line and the jig hole.

 

[JP@AK]

Dave

I do not believe any S prefix guns were stamped with the 4 line address (I certainly have never found one). That change was made shortly after the C prefix came into use. The serial number you cited is low enough to expect it to have the one line address.

On the jig hole, I have found some late S prefix revolvers with that feature, so I'm not at all surprised to hear that an early C prefix gun has one.

 

[Targets Guy]

The note I have on this issue says 1947 and 1948 pre-model 10's have the one liner. My 1950's pre 10's have the four liner. Supposedly post-war frames had the four lines. Wiregrassguy stated earlier the four lines were implemented in 1948.

Regarding jig holes my 1951 shipped K-38 has one. It shipped 11-51.

For some reason I can no longer post photos using the manage attachment button. Something changed somewhere.

 

[fourb20]

What is a jig hole?

 

[Targets Guy]

What is a jig hole?

It is a perfect circle through the grip frame; supposedly helped in holding the frame while working on the revolver?

If I could post an image I'd be able to show you an example.

I switched computers; lets see if this works.

 

[DWalt]

I list several in the sub-C10000 range with the one line frame stamping (it's not an address). But at what SN the 4-line frame stamping began on K-frames, I cannot say, but certainly not very far beyond that. From my list, I'd say that it began on K-frames shipping in mid-1948 or later. I do have a note which says the highest known K-series SN with the 1-line stamping is around K300xx. Is there anyone here who knows?

 

[Targets Guy]

Sometime in 1948 is a close as I've gotten on this issue. I have a S prefix shipped in March of 48 with the one liner.

And I had copied a note from you earlier (7/29/2017) wherein you stated the K22's went from one to four lines around s/n 30,xxx. That s/n should have shipped btw Mar and Oct of 1948; this based on the fact K188xx shipped in 3/48 and K491xx shipped 10/48.

I have read that supposedly the post war frames had the four lines. I have taken this to mean that frames made before the end of the war had the one liners and it took that long to use up the war built frames and go to the post war made frames around the middle of 1948.

 

[Absalom]

....
I have read that supposedly the post war frames had the four lines. I have taken this to mean that frames made before the end of the war had the one liners and it took that long to use up the war built frames and go to the post war made frames around the middle of 1948.

I do not believe that is a viable theory in any way.

Given just the more than 185,000 M&Ps produced from 1946 (before SV 815000 or so) to 1948 (S 999999 and into the early C prefix) with the one-line, where would that enormous surplus of war built frames come from? That would be almost a fifth of total war production.

 

[Targets Guy]

I do not believe that is a viable theory in any way.

Given just the more than 185,000 M&Ps produced from 1946 (before SV 815000 or so) to 1948 (S 999999 and into the early C prefix) with the one-line, where would that enormous surplus of war built frames come from? That would be almost a fifth of total war production.

You may be correct but having worked for the govt for 42 years I have no problem believing that level of over production during the war.

 

[rct269]

You may be correct but having worked for the govt for 42 years I have no problem believing that level of over production during the war.

AMEN!!!-----------------and I never worked for the government------just a casual observer.

Ralph Tremaine

 

[Targets Guy]

I went back through my Journals and in Volume 17 dated Sept 1984 there was an interesting article on the 50 years of the S&W .45 U.S. Service Model of 1917.

In the article were some discussion on post war production. The War Production Board Order L-60, which restricted sales of shotguns, rifles, and handguns, was amended at War's end to allow civilian sales of all firearms except .38 caliber revolvers and 12-gauge shotguns. The revolvers were reserved for law-enforcement agencies and the shotguns for farmers. This restriction was lifted by mid 1946.

Jinks (1977) recorded that 991 new Model 1917s were produced between 14 May 46 and 25 Jul 47.

Later in the article it was stated that there were 10,868 numbered frames left from the 1930s and became the basis of other Model 1917s assembled in the late 1940s. These were sold until 1949 when the Model 1917 was dropped and replaced by the 1950 models.

Finally the article talked briefly about the "four line address" which appeared on the forward right frame on some K-frame target models by 1948, was applied to all the 1950 models.

The article was written by David M. Damkaer & Gunner Safsten.

 

[Absalom]

I went back through my Journals and in Volume 17 dated Sept 1984 there was an interesting article on the 50 years of the S&W .45 U.S. Service Model of 1917.

In the article were some discussion on post war production...

Later in the article it was stated that there were 10,868 numbered frames left from the 1930s and became the basis of other Model 1917s assembled in the late 1940s. These were sold until 1949 when the Model 1917 was dropped and replaced by the 1950 models.

Finally the article talked briefly about the "four line address" which appeared on the forward right frame on some K-frame target models by 1948, was applied to all the 1950 modelS ....

I have no reason to doubt any of that, but at a mere 10,000 or so left-over pre-war frames, the Model 1917 post-WW II was a niche gun with no relevance to main production. You can't draw any conclusions from that to the models that were produced post-war in the hundreds of thousands.

The change order to the four-line came in April 1948. That's a real fact and has been confirmed here many times, although the cut/off serials for the different models are a matter of discussion. Just do a forum search.

Any fixation on "leftover" frames would also have to contend with the fact that there are post-war models with the single line that did not exist pre-war.

 

[Targets Guy]

I have no reason to doubt any of that, but at a mere 10,000 or so left-over pre-war frames, the Model 1917 post-WW II was a niche gun with no relevance to main production. You can't draw any conclusions from that to the models that were produced post-war in the hundreds of thousands.

The change order to the four-line came in April 1948. That's a real fact and has been confirmed here many times, although the cut/off serials for the different models are a matter of discussion. Just do a forum search.

Any fixation on "leftover" frames would also have to contend with the fact that there are post-war models with the single line that did not exist pre-war.

Like I said it may not be so but I rankle somewhat as to the "no viable basis". I believe there is a viable basis and see no "real" evidence to the contrary. I have presented solid evidence there was a "holding back" of frames from before the war. (for whatever reason). I see no viable evidence this did not occur during the war.

But again you may be right.