Caliber for teaching

[g_conway]

Trying to help a female friend learn to shoot.
Girl is about 85 Lbs wringing wet.

She wanted to start with a 9mm. That lasted for about 20 rounds. I have already conviced her to try again, this time with a 22.

What would you all recomend as a good progression from there.

I have to deal with range rental guns for her as the smallest I own is a 40.

Thanks in advance for the assist.

 

[dmar]

Definitely a .22 until she is good and comfortable with shooting. Develops good habits, and encourages people to shoot more.

IMO, .40 is way too 'snappy' of a round for a beginner, especially in a small/light gun. I'd go up to a .38 Special, from the .22. Of course, who knows, she might be a natural, and want to jump up to .44mag...!

 

[Alpo]

What kind of gun? I'm assuming that, since you were using 9mm, she wants to learn a bottom-feeder? If she does not want particulary to learn an auto, I'd teach her with a revolver. Part of the kick of an auto is that slide moving. It's been my experience that the less moving parts a newbie has to deal with, the better.

380 has less kick than a 9mm in the same size gun, but 380s are usually smaller and lighter guns, so there may be more. 32 Auto in the same size gun as a 380 will be very easy on the wrists and ears. Hard on the pocketbook, though. That stuff's expensive.

If it was me, I'd go from a 22 to a 4" 38 K frame (just to get her used to some noise and kick) with wadcutters, then to full power 38s, and then straight to a full-size 1911. A full size 45 has less kick than a 9mm-size 9, and much less than a 40 (which is usually made in a 9mm-size gun).

I'd also have her wear both ear plugs and ear muffs. I believe that at least 80% of perceived recoil is in the noise.

 

[27145]

Trying to help a female friend learn to shoot.
Girl is about 85 Lbs wringing wet.

She wanted to start with a 9mm. That lasted for about 20 rounds. I have already conviced her to try again, this time with a 22.

What would you all recomend as a good progression from there.

I have to deal with range rental guns for her as the smallest I own is a 40.

Thanks in advance for the assist.

It all depends, is she a brunette or blond and what color eyes? A photo might help.

 

[mwtdvm]

Thanks for a timely post..

Next week end I am taking a good friend to the range to shoot pistols for the first time. He is about 50 but has only shot rifles and shotguns. I thought I would bring four or five guns. 22 revolver, 22 auto, 38 revolver and 38 auto (yes a 52-2) with wadcutters, and maybe a 45 revolver.

I think he should eventually end up with something like a Beretta in 40 S&W but will try to get there gradually.

This first experience I want to be fun for him. Anything I should not do?
TIA

 

[g_conway]

What kind of gun? I'm assuming that, since you were using 9mm, she wants to learn a bottom-feeder? If she does not want particulary to learn an auto, I'd teach her with a revolver. Part of the kick of an auto is that slide moving. It's been my experience that the less moving parts a newbie has to deal with, the better.

380 has less kick than a 9mm in the same size gun, but 380s are usually smaller and lighter guns, so there may be more. 32 Auto in the same size gun as a 380 will be very easy on the wrists and ears. Hard on the pocketbook, though. That stuff's expensive.

If it was me, I'd go from a 22 to a 4" 38 K frame (just to get her used to some noise and kick) with wadcutters, then to full power 38s, and then straight to a full-size 1911. A full size 45 has less kick than a 9mm-size 9, and much less than a 40 (which is usually made in a 9mm-size gun).

I'd also have her wear both ear plugs and ear muffs. I believe that at least 80% of perceived recoil is in the noise.

Thanks for the input. I already have her doing plugs and muffs. she dosen't like revolvers (not sure why.)
Can someone give me a relationship perspective between a 9 and 38 as to felt recoil in same gun (weight / frame) Are there "standard underpowerd rounds" that would fill some of the gaps here?

 

[mrerick]

I teach basic pistol, and always start students out with a .22.

The initial time(s) at the range can be overwhelming. Why complicate things with recoil at first? After some practice and experience with the .22, it's not difficult to introduce larger rounds.

Start someone on too large a round, and they will flinch at the recoil then, and for quite a while after it.

Marc

 

[Cyrano]

In 38 Special, the target wadcutters, usually a 148 gr wadcutter seated almost to the mouth of the case, is very much underloaded, and recoil is a lot less. There's a 38 Special automatic, the target grade S&W Model 52, and it ONLY feeds with the flush seated wadcutters. Your range may not have one for rental. It would be an ideal progresion from shooting a 22. I'm not aware of any reduced power factory loadings in 9mm P.

I agree with the other posters: Have her shooting the 22 for quite a while; it's an ideal training vehicle.

 

[A10]

I always start with a .22 single action, after spending an hour or so talking about the different types of handguns, some of their history, etc. (might bore the student, but they need the background IMHO) Then after they show they can point down range, cock the hammer, put their finger inside the trigger guard, and proficiently hit a target, I move to a double action revolver usually in .38. I teach them to shoot it single action initially because they are already familiar with this type of shooting, then go to double action, always close targets to begin with then moving to greater distances. Only after they can show they are proficient with the revolvers will I move to a semiauto. Since by this time they know safe gun handling techniques, it takes them less time to learn. I feel like this gives new shooters enough background to make good decisions about what they want to use for self defense.

 

[LedFowl]

I decided to buy an old West German police surplus .32 Walther PP to try to bridge the gap between .22 and .38 special for new shooters. It's a little heavier than some of the other .32's, so it absorbs recoil. Also, the single-action trigger pull is pretty light. For some women, trigger pull is part of the problem, too. Anyway, I haven't tried it out on a novice yet.

I also got a .25 Beretta 21a for this purpose, and while it isn't really a satisfactory range gun, it does offer a little variety to a new shooter without a heavy pull or big recoil.

 

[Moonman]

FIREARM TEACHING,
We teach with .22 Ruger Mark III semi-autos. SAFETY-SAFETY-SAFETY Rules first, You've done a Plugs/Muff deal that's good. The hearing that you LOSE IS LOST FOREVER. ALWAYS KEEP THE FIREARM pointed in a safe direction, FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER until on the target and ready to shoot. Find out if she's RIGHT or LEFT EYE DOMINATE. Cross Eye to Shooting Hand, such as Left Eye Dominate and a Right Hand shooter, that can can be dealt with.

The most important things to teach are Trigger Control and Sight Picture. The GRIP Hold of one hand or two hand, Breath Control, Hold Control, Follow-Through after the shot, are important, but more so for Target Shooting than Defensive. DEFENSIVE shooting is usually very-very up close and personal.

I personally don't like FEMALES or anyone really shooting semi-autos for DEFENSIVE PURPOSES unless they are REALLY COMMITTED to practicing and shooting. The Failure to Fire and other potential problems with autos will really GET YOU KILLED in a defensive situation. Revolvers, and I don't know her issues with them and you really need to find out what they are, GO BANG, and if they don't, PULL THE TRIGGER AGAIN. DO NOT HAVE HER SHOOT A 2" 38 SPECIAL AIRWEIGHT. They may be easy to carry but in NO WAY are they a beginners firearm. (this advise is also for boyfriends and husbands that ABSOLUTELY think that's what their girlfriends or wives need to have or carry one).

After the .22 Auto beginning I have a S&W 3" .22 and a S&W 3" 38 Special (STEEL not ALLOY) Revolvers that have the same grips (MOD 60 PRO) and weigh within 2 oz. of each other to progress to. A little weight is your friend when dealing with recoil. I also have 3" and 4" S&W Model 10 Police Service Revolvers to use.

When satisfied with their performance then we move onto the Autos , from .380, 9mm, 40S&W, 45ACP, if they so desire.

Make sure you show her how to Maintain and Store a firearm and ammo. If she's really going to demand an AUTO, the maintenance and disassembly/reassembly of it.

PRACTICE-PRACTICE-PRACTICE, because firearm skills are diminishing skills if you don't.

Maybe you should consider that she needs to attend an NRA "Basic Pistol" class. When we teach Basic Pistol, we DON'T let Boyfriend/Girlfriend, Husband/Wives shoot together to keep some bad habits from developing.

In the words of Clint Smith the Director of the Thunder Ranch training facility "Firearms should be COMFORTING not COMFORTABLE" to carry. Larger firearms are harder to carry, but in a shooting situation, people are glad they had a BIGGER GUN.

HAVE A GREAT DAY!!!

 

[venomballistics]

back when we were dating I started my wife out on a 44 and a 30 cal of 1906 ... but these were reduced loads courtesy of my prowess at the reloading bench.
the gun itself can be a bigger issue than the caliber it fires.
handguns are just harder to control than long arms and that trusty pistol tends to get away from them a little leading to some frustration.
you also have to look at your personal rate of fire, they try to keep up with this. sure we can pick up a 45 auto and pound two mags into the kill zone before the second hand makes a full rotation and might even be bored if we slow it down too far. What we show them establishes the bar for them and you can bet if you have two empties in the air till the slide locks, that is exactly what they will try to do.
Long arms seem to work better. We have all the same basic mechanics and rules but its in a heavy package that reduces felt recoil, and is easier and quicker for a beginner to negotiate with between shots.
After observing the little lady with the range of weapons that fit my criteria of satisfaction, I used that compiled knowledge to gift the missus her first firearm. which happens to be a Henry big boy rifle in 357 mag, which, because I paid attention to what she struggled with, she rather loves.

 

[GatorFarmer]

Snap caps - teaches trigger control and basic mechanics without the pop.

In a .38 special you can try cowboy loads or wadcutters to have the least amount of muzzle blast and recoil.

The Walther PP is still a blowback auto. For most users, blowback autos seem to have more kick than a locked breach, though the .32 shouldn't be too bad. The softest kicking auto that I can recall using (centerfire) was a Beretta 84F in .380. Locked breach, big for caliber and the end result was seemingly recoil free.

You could also try a pellet or airsoft gun at some point to cover some other fundamentals without the noise and kick.

Or just tell her to go home and eat a stick of butter every night...

 

[mg357]

I suggest starting with a .22 then a little later go up to a .38

 

[Moonman]

g_conway,
Make sure that the firearm FITS HER hand well.

 

[walnutred]

After 22s the fastest improvement I’ve seen with new shooters has been with 32 Longs or 38 Specials. I have a 4” 31-1 and a 10-6 that see a lot of beginner time. Swapping grips to show how different grips feel is easy because so many grip styles were made it’s easy to find them used.

 

[labworm]

.22 is the way to fly, prevents the newbie from becoming gun shy.
Just a little poetry for the forum

 

[sjmjax]

Similar to what most others have said.

I start newbies with both a semi and revolver in .22LR. I've got them in various sizes and configurations and try to find one of each that best fits their hand size & strength.

Transition gun to centerfire is most often .38 special loaded with wadcutters & light charge. Will chose a 3 inch J or 4 inch K frame gun depending again on their hand size & strength.

Sometimes I've found it better to use a .32 SWL like a 3 or 4 inch barrel model 31 as a transition gun for those who appear to have unusually small hands or are very recoil & noise shy.

 

[growr]

After being introduced with a .22 of either a semi-auto or a revolver, I like having a student that has never fired a center-fire to use my S&W M28 4" with some very mild .38 SPL loads ( 158 SWC and 4.0 grains of Unique)
The weight of the M28 and the mild loads makes for a very pleasant shooting experience. Then I can step to a K frame M15 with the same ammo and then ultimately to the J frame that some one well intentioned guided them to using the same box of ammo and then let them draw their own conclusions. usually they really like the M15 size and usually shoot it very well to boot.
If they don't enjoy their first shooting experience they don't come back.

Randy

NRA Certified Instructor well over 20 years.

 

[g_conway]

Thank you all for the great info so far.

 

[David LaPell]

I always recommend a 4-inch .38 revolver, something like a Model 10 or similar. Recoil isn't bad (you can put whatever grips she likes on it) as long as you stay away from +P and it isn't all that expensive compared to some of the others. The first handgun my wife ever shot was a 4-inch Model 10 heavy barrel and she loved it.

 

[Armyphotog]

I think it would have more to do with why she wants to shoot. If it's for self-defense, she's going to have to get used to what ever she settles on, anyway. I don't think you need to burn up a whole lot of ammunition on your first couple of sessions anway. Let her settle into it. Don't make her hate it.

 

[scooter123]

Thanks for the input. I already have her doing plugs and muffs. she dosen't like revolvers (not sure why.)
Can someone give me a relationship perspective between a 9 and 38 as to felt recoil in same gun (weight / frame) Are there "standard underpowerd rounds" that would fill some of the gaps here?

My experience is that the 9mm and standard 38 spl. are very similar in terms of perceived recoil. As for why, the slide cycling on a locked breech semi auto BROADENS the recoil impulse and turns it into more of a push.

If she doesn't want to shoot a revolver I would suggest that you start her out shooting the heaviest semi's you can rent. Aint nothing better for reducing recoil than simple Mass. That means a steel framed Baretta 92, a Sig P226 or P229 Elite Stainless, or an all steel 9mm 1911. Once she has become comfortable with an all steel 9mm you can then move her into an aluminum frame and finally a polymer.

BTW, I expect she will complain about the weight of the heavier guns, IIRC the P226 Elite Stainless runs about 44 ounces. However, remind her of some simple basic Physics as in Force=Mass x Acceleration. Since recoil is basically a function of Acceleration that means that A=F/M. For a given caliber, shooting a gun twice as heavy will reduce the recoil by half.