Can anything be done via executive order in regards to SYG laws?

[joesmith357]

Just curious based on Obama and Holder's silly statements this past week. I dont think they can, but want to know.

 

[SMSgt]

IMO, nope.

 

[HKSmith]

No. SYG laws are state, not federal, laws.

 

[shouldazagged]

In a word, no.

 

[ladder13]

Never put anything past these people.

 

[David Armstrong]

Nope. No authority for that.

 

[joesmith357]

No. SYG laws are state, not federal, laws.

I know, but there are federal laws which circumvent or supercede state laws.

Hoping you are right though.

 

[HankG]

This is why knowing who your state reps and state senators are is very important. You have to keep them abreast of your feelings on the subject and that their re-election hinges on those feelings. If you don't, then Colorado will happen in your state!

 

[DigiRebel]

Constitutionally no, there isn't anything he can do.

If you expect the Constitution to prevent him from trying to do something... well... you've just not been paying attention.

 

[Silver Dollar]

I can't really say I trust the president completely on things. There have been lies, coverups and scandals left and right. There has been trouncing on the U.S. Constitution and other not so good things. I trust him as far as I can throw a Mack dump truck until he proves to me he can be trusted again.

 

[jtpur]

STYG

Just curious based on Obama and Holder's silly statements this past week. I dont think they can, but want to know.

I am going to toss in my two cents. First States choose their own laws via their State legislatures.

Second: The Federal Government via Congress enacts Federal Law.

Thirdly: We have to tiers of laws in the country... State and Federal and they are separate from one another.

Fourth.. Federal Law makes it illegal to violate a persons civil rights. Individuals have been charged, and convicted for this crime.
(The police officers found not guilty of beating Rodney King in California State Court were convicted in Federal Court of violating King's civil rights. They were sent to Federal Prison. This is not double jeopardy according to the US Supreme Court. (I disagree but I aint a Supreme Court Judge)

Fifth, A State may have a Stand Your ground Law or a Castle Doctrine Law or a law that says you can shoot 11 year olds who spray paint your car, but that might not stop the Federal Government from charging you with violating that 11 year olds civil rights, and what the State Law says and gives protection for Federal Law is completely different and separate and you just may find yourself in a Federal Prison serving a life sentence or even facing the death penalty. (OK I don't believe States allow people to shoot 11 year olds) but Texas has a law that could permit deadly force to prevent vandalism in the night time. I recommend you don't shoot any night time vandals, even though Texas says it is ok to do so.. I am sure Mr Holder would have a different opinion on that.

 

[joesmith357]

Fourth.. Federal Law makes it illegal to violate a persons civil rights. Individuals have been charged, and convicted for this crime.
(The police officers found not guilty of beating Rodney King in California State Court were convicted in Federal Court of violating King's civil rights. They were sent to Federal Prison. This is not double jeopardy according to the US Supreme Court. (I disagree but I aint a Supreme Court Judge)

Fifth, A State may have a Stand Your ground Law or a Castle Doctrine Law or a law that says you can shoot 11 year olds who spray paint your car, but that might not stop the Federal Government from charging you with violating that 11 year olds civil rights, and what the State Law says and gives protection for Federal Law is completely different and separate and you just may find yourself in a Federal Prison serving a life sentence or even facing the death penalty. (OK I don't believe States allow people to shoot 11 year olds) but Texas has a law that could permit deadly force to prevent vandalism in the night time. I recommend you don't shoot any night time vandals, even though Texas says it is ok to do so.. I am sure Mr Holder would have a different opinion on that.

In regards to the federal government charging an individual with violating someone's civil rights. I think there is a lot of misinformation, lies and flat out incorrect info out there.

Find me an example of someone who is not an agent of the government (Judge, cop, State Attorney/Prosecutor) who has been charged and more importantly convicted of violating someone's civil rights.

The constitution says "Congress (the government) shall make no law..."

Ordinary citizens cannot violate someone's civil rights because the constitution does not prevent individuals from doing things.

If it did, companies and individuals would be prosecuted all the time for voilating people's first, second, etc ammendment rights.

Zimmerman cannot be charged with voilating anyone's civil rights because he's not an agent of the government.

That being said, there is apparently some sort of federal hate crime law, supposedly he could potentially be charged with that, but there is nothing there. This keeps being talked about in the media as "civil rights violation", which is incorrect and misleading I think. Completely different than the Rodney King cops thing, those COULD be prosecuted because they are agents of the government.

 

[jtpur]

an example

In regards to the federal government charging an individual with violating someone's civil rights. I think there is a lot of misinformation, lies and flat out incorrect info out there.

Find me an example of someone who is not an agent of the government (Judge, cop, State Attorney/Prosecutor) who has been charged and more importantly convicted of violating someone's civil rights.

The constitution says "Congress (the government) shall make no law..."

Ordinary citizens cannot violate someone's civil rights because the constitution does not prevent individuals from doing things.

If it did, companies and individuals would be prosecuted all the time for voilating people's first, second, etc ammendment rights.

Zimmerman cannot be charged with voilating anyone's civil rights because he's not an agent of the government.

That being said, there is apparently some sort of federal hate crime law, supposedly he could potentially be charged with that, but there is nothing there. This keeps being talked about in the media as "civil rights violation", which is incorrect and misleading I think. Completely different than the Rodney King cops thing, those COULD be prosecuted because they are agents of the government.

I am quite positive you were not accusing me of lying or putting out false information.

Now with regards to your comment of finding you an example.

Lemuel Penn was an African American who had served this Country in World War two. He had received the Bronze Star for his actions in combat against the enemy. At the time of his murder he was a Lieutenant Colonel in the United States Army Reserve. He was also the Assistant Superintendent of the Public Schools of Washington DC.

He was returning to Washington after completing Military duty at Ft. Benning Georgia. He was murdered by three KKK members. Two of those Cecil Meyers and Howard Sims were tried and found Not guilty in Superior Court in the State of Georgia by an all white jury. They were subsequently charged and tried in Federal Court for violating Colonel Penn's civil rights. They were sentenced to Federal Prison.

Ok now I found you one example.. You can look up the details yourself just in case you think I am putting out false information or lying. When you find the information you can write about it on this forum or you can find another example. There are others but you only asked for one.

So apparently Ordinary Citizens can violate a persons civil rights!!!

 

[jtpur]

On July 11, 1964 while driving through Madison County, Georgia, Lemuel Penn, a black United States Army Reserve officer, was killed by a shotgun blast from a passing car. Penn had been on annual summer active duty at Fort Benning and was returning to his home in Washington, D.C.
The driver of the car from which the blast occurred signed a statement admitting his role and identifying two members of the Klan -- Howard Sims and Cecil Myers -- as being the ones who actually fired the shots that killed Penn. Sims and Myers were subsequently tried in state superior court, but an all-white jury found them innocent. Federal prosecutors subsequently charged Sims and Myers with violating Penn's civil rights. A federal district court jury found them guilty, and the two served about six years in federal prison.

PENN, LEMUEL A
CAPT LT COL ACTIVE RES USA
VETERAN SERVICE DATES: Unknown
DATE OF BIRTH: 09/19/1915
DATE OF DEATH: 07/11/1964
DATE OF INTERMENT: 07/14/1964
BURIED AT: SECTION 3 SITE 1377 LH
ARLINGTON NATIONAL CEMETERY

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lemuel A. Penn Gravesite PHOTO
Photo Courtesy of Ron Williams

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Page Added: 19 February 2000 Page Updated: 28 October 2000
Updated: 14 June 2003 Updated: 11 September 2004

 

[joesmith357]

I am quite positive you were not accusing me of lying or putting out false information.

I'm not accusing you of anything, why are you so uptight?

Ok now I found you one example.. You can look up the details yourself just in case you think I am putting out false information or lying. When you find the information you can write about it on this forum or you can find another example. There are others but you only asked for one.

In regards to this particular case, I did some research and found that the only way they were able to be charged for federal civil rights violation was because the police falsified a report. There was a federal case which went to the supreme court (U.S. vs Guest) which confirmed this. You can read more here: United States v. Guest - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So apparently Ordinary Citizens can violate a persons civil rights!!!

I would be interested in more cases if you have time. Based on what the above case referenced, I doubt Zimmerman could be tried based on this. There was no state involvement.

 

[jtpur]

A waste of time

I'm not accusing you of anything, why are you so uptight?



In regards to this particular case, I did some research and found that the only way they were able to be charged for federal civil rights violation was because the police falsified a report. There was a federal case which went to the supreme court (U.S. vs Guest) which confirmed this. You can read more here: United States v. Guest - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



I would be interested in more cases if you have time. Based on what the above case referenced, I doubt Zimmerman could be tried based on this. There was no state involvement.

I won't waste my time, It is obvious that you refuse to believe the obvious. The 1964 Civil Rights Act applies to individuals. Look up the cases yourself. You will have a good time arguing that the obvious is impossible.

 

[jlrhiner]

I don't mean to jump on anyone's toes here, but the KKK murderers of those three civil rights workers were also tried for violating their civil rights after being aquitted on state murder charges.

I also think the lady who was killed while transporting civil rights workers also resulted in a civil rights violation. Not completely clear on this one though.

 

[jtpur]

Toes

I don't mean to jump on anyone's toes here, but the KKK murderers of those three civil rights workers were also tried for violating their civil rights after being aquitted on state murder charges.

I also think the lady who was killed while transporting civil rights workers also resulted in a civil rights violation. Not completely clear on this one though.

Not stepping on mine. Me thinks you are on a correct path.

 

[joesmith357]

I don't mean to jump on anyone's toes here, but the KKK murderers of those three civil rights workers were also tried for violating their civil rights after being aquitted on state murder charges.

I also think the lady who was killed while transporting civil rights workers also resulted in a civil rights violation. Not completely clear on this one though.

You made your point, but what do all those murders you posted have in common? Racism. They cant prove any sort of bias, let alone racism in the Zimmerman case.

 

[25elk]

This may seem an aside to some, but since the initial conversation referenced Zimmerman and the probability of him being charged with a civil liberties violation, IMHO the salient point not being addressed by anyone is the fact that the USAG and the CIC have frequently demonstrated their willingness to totally disregard both settled law and the Constitution in pandering to a select group of their supporters. The bottom line is if they deem it advantageous to prosecute Zimmerman they will. The power that is inherent with being at the top has become the law of the land and will remain so as long as the populace accepts it as so.