Can Bodyguard 380 take "+P"?

[xzhync]

All,

At the risk of getting yelled at, I am going to ask the question...Has anyone heard if S&W has a stance on using +p in the Bodyguard 380? I just traded my LCP for the BG and would like to know. Over on the LCP forum they get very testy when someone asks about +p. Ruger has stated that the LCP is not suitable for +p. I also know that there really isn't a SAAMI spec for 380 +p, but I am referring to such ammo as Buffalo Bore (self proclaimed +p) and other "hotter" loads like Doubletap, etc. I would like to get the most out of the BG 380, but also don't want any problems. Hopefully, Wolff will come out with beef'd up recoil springs soon, which would probably help with +p loads. Any thoughts?

 

[Goffman]

I'm looking at the manual for the BG 380 right now. It implies that using +P ammunition is not a good idea, but it doesn't say that it is absolutely prohibited. I've handled a few polymer frame 380s in the past few weeks, and the BG 380 is the beefiest of the bunch. If there is a polymer 380 that can handle +P, it's this one.

 

[SMMAssociates]

xzhync:

(OK, how do you pronounce that? )

Unless you see a specific prohibition, it's probably safe to assume that a given modern firearm will handle +P, at least well enough to put a few practice rounds through it, and "in extremis" should you actually need it.

I would NOT plan on putting more than a couple magazines worth through the gun initially, nor doing more than just burning off the carry ammunition each year.

There are some out there where it's just not safe, of course. Either the manufacturer says not to do it, or it's just kinda old. My old PPK/S will handle about anything, but I'd be afraid to put +P in my P3AT. I prefer to avoid the +P in the Walther even so - it's a circa 1968 gun....

Philosophically, other than better penetration of hollow points against winter clothing, I'm not sure it really matters.... But that's just me....

Regards,

 

[tpd223]

You can't make a .380 into a 9mm no matter how hard you try.

Just sayin.


While I understand the sentiment, and have been in your same position before, I have also learned over the years that reliability trumps FPS every time.
Often (more so than not IMHO) with smaller guns the hotter ammo abuses the gun and/or effects reliability rather badly.

 

[Loco Weed]

I've never seen .380 +P... who makes it?

 

[conchmariner]

I've never seen .380 +P... who makes it?

IIRC there's no SAAMI designation for +P .380 ammo, so the technically correct answer is no one makes. However in the vernacular I guess people consider stuff like Buffalo Bore .380 to be +P. Some of the gun makers that make small .380 guns advise against using Buffalo Bore, although I've never seen that prohibition specifically in an owners manual.

 

[xzhync]

xzhync:

(OK, how do you pronounce that? )

Unless you see a specific prohibition, it's probably safe to assume that a given modern firearm will handle +P, at least well enough to put a few practice rounds through it, and "in extremis" should you actually need it.

I would NOT plan on putting more than a couple magazines worth through the gun initially, nor doing more than just burning off the carry ammunition each year.

There are some out there where it's just not safe, of course. Either the manufacturer says not to do it, or it's just kinda old. My old PPK/S will handle about anything, but I'd be afraid to put +P in my P3AT. I prefer to avoid the +P in the Walther even so - it's a circa 1968 gun....

Philosophically, other than better penetration of hollow points against winter clothing, I'm not sure it really matters.... But that's just me....

Regards,

Thanks. Ya, I know my user name is strange. It is an old logon id from a previous job. I just use it because I am sure no one else has. Anyway, I haven't tried any Buffalo Bore yet, but I did try a few rounds of Doubletap ammo. I don't believe it is as hot as the BB, but a little hotter than, say, Speer Gold Dots, etc. I really didn't notice more recoil. Not sure I will try the BB, but I am gathering that, in very, very limited usage, it probably would be ok. I am just working off of the approach that greater fps equates to greater eneryand greater penetration and (hopefully) greater expansion. I also realize that hotter rounds cause greater recoil and slow down subsequent shots, so ther is a trade off. I believe Mag318 said he will be using CorBon in his BG 380. I may try some, since they are within SAAMI spec, but probably on the hot end of the spectrum.

 

[JohnnyREB_]

My M&P Instruction manual says "+P ammo generates pressures in excess of the pressures associated with standard ammunition. Such pressures may affect the wear characteristics or exceed the margin of safety. Use of "Plus-P"ammunition may result in the need for more frequent service."
Their stand on +P+ says "Must not be used"

You can interpret those for what they are. I say they are just not endorsing +P use because of legality and wear and tear on their "Lifetime" warranty products, but it can shoot +P rounds.

 

[Driverjoe]

Last week I tried the buffalo +p ammo in my wife's bodyguard and personally I would suggest not doing it. It kicks hard and with such a small grip it did hurt some. I fired 5 rounds and stopped. Can't imagine this being safe in the long run.

 

[Old cop]

I'm using the HPR 90 grain hollow point in my BG b/c it feeds reliably, shoots to point of aim and has greater penetration than other hollow point ammo. As to the +P stuff in this caliber, not for me since there is no SAMMI standard. These little guns are a last ditch, easy to carry option for folks who do not normally go in harm's way so I chose to avoid extra hot rounds that may or may not have the desired effect.

 

[12string]

Used Buffalo Bore in my wife's Sig p238. It is snappy that's for sure, she could handle it but not for target practice. She uses FMJ standard pressure for the range, Buffalo Bore for self defense.

 

[db4570]

Since it looked like S&W doesn't have a real problem with it, I was going to try the Underwood +p stuff.

What's cool is that they offer it loaded with the Hornady XTP, Gold Dot (chronically out of stock) and Golden Sabre (don't like personally).

David

 

[OKFC05]

There is NO SAAMI STANDARD for +P in .380.
S&W specifically states the warranty is only good for SAAMI standard ammunition.
So what is being asked, and talked around, "If I use .380 ammunition that is over SAAMI pressure standards, 1. Will it blow up the gun? and 2. Will the warranty still be good?"

1. What is the pressure? Chances are, the currently sold "+P" is about the same as a .380 Proof Load, so probably "No." Certainly continued shooting of proof loads carries risk.
2. It shouldn't, but a dishonest person might lie about the ammunition and get something.

I have tested .380 handloads in a SIG right up to max as listed in an old Hornady manual, to the point cases had obvious damage including loose primer pockets and case splits. The gain in speed over a few tenths less powder (that did not damage cases) was not worth it.
Ballistically, it was still a 9mm Short, not a 9mm Luger.

It is not the first time I've seen max loads that gained little by going over the limit.

 

[brentb636]

I have had a number of 380's and wouldn't put hi pressure in any of them. The current guns aren't made for it. My all steel Makarov pistol ( basically a .380, but a 9x18 ) is another story. +P Hornady XTP hollow points shoot well in these milsurps, developing Muzzle energy over 300 ft-lbs , which is definitely 9mm Luger class. That, however, is a different subject. The point is that older all steel 380's can probably handle high pressure just fine, while the little shirt pocket 380's would not be a good choice.

 

[colt_saa]

No it can not

 

[cmj8591]

The manual says use only ammunition that is in "strict accordance" with SAAMI specifications. Pretty simple. If there is no SAAMI specification for +P 380's or you are using ammo that is not approved, you are on your own if something goes wrong. If your that in need of higher velocity or more stopping power, don't carry a 380! If you need a hammer, don't use a screw driver!

 

[Florida J Frame]

With all the good .380 XTP rounds out there why bother? They are so close in performance to a short barreled 9mm they get the job down without beating up your gun. Check out the Freedom munitions new .380 XTP. It runs over 1000fps and sells for $15 per box of 50 on sale. Just my opinion but it runs great out of my G42.

 

[db4570]

The manual says a couple somewhat contradictory things:

" “Plus-P” (+P) ammunition generates pressures in excess of the pressures associated with standard ammunition. Such pressures may affect the wear characteristics or exceed the margin of safety. Use of “Plus-P” ammunition may result in the need for more frequent service."

Which means to me they don't really recommend it, but don't prohibit it, either. Like a car manufacturer is not going to recommend you drive over the speed limit.

But then they mention the SAAMI thing that cmj8591 brings up:

"Use only commercially manufactured ammunition with internal ballistic pressures which are in strict accordance with the specifications of the Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers’ Institute (SAAMI). If you are uncertain, contact your ammunition supplier for verification."

I have always heard that there is no SAAMI spec for 380+p and assume that's correct. So this seems like a prohibition.

A little confusing, but still tempting. What's the worst that could happen...?

David

 

[DonD]

Last week I tried the buffalo +p ammo in my wife's bodyguard and personally I would suggest not doing it. It kicks hard and with such a small grip it did hurt some. I fired 5 rounds and stopped. Can't imagine this being safe in the long run.

I don't have a Bodyguard right now but have an itch for one. My CCW guns are a Ruger SR9C 9mm with +P (authorized) and a Ruger SP101 .357 with some hot Buffalo Bore 158gr JHP (VERY stout).

Having said that, the Buffalo Bore 380 +P (yes I know about SAAMI) seems too hot in my opinion. It runs at least 100fps beyond anything I've seen from any of the major manufacturers (Rem, Winchester, Speer etc) produce.

If I get one, I won't run BB in it. Don

 

[JohnnyREB_]

+P or not +P that is the question

I have shot +P and standard ammo of course in both my Sig 938 (9mm)and BG 380. As far as kick goes the +P is not a choice of mine, the extra does not warrant the pain in my hand for me at least in my opinion.
As far as daily carry guns, I switched to my BG 380 as my daily carry and I forget I'm carrying it except for the reminder of the dual magazine pinching me on the other side. Total of 21 good reasons a BG 380 is effective, if I cant stop em' in 7 shots I don't need to be carrying my gun for what it's intended for DEFENSE.