Can Smith & Wesson compete with the SIG P365?

To me, the SIG P365 is an interesting firearm in a "It's cool that they could make a 9mm that small that holds so many rounds" sort of way, but it's not a firearm that I would ever choose for carry. Yes, it fills a niche for those who specifically desire the smallest, lightest, highest capacity 9mm pistol around, but personally I'd sooner opt to carry a Ruger LC9s or a Glock 19. To me, the P365 just falls into a size category which is basically too big to pocket carry yet too small for IWB carry or to fit my hand nicely.

When it comes to EDC, I carry a Smith & Wesson SW40VE which is a compact pistol about the size of a Glock 19 and a Ruger LCP as a backup. If I wanted something inbetween, then I would get a Ruger LC9s or an M&P40 Shield.

Ultimately, the P365 strikes me as a firearm offering a compromise between a Compact and a Subcompact, which I've honestly never heard anybody ask for.
Is it popular, of course it is, but is there significant enough demand for Smith & Wesson to design such a thing? Frankly, I don't think so. Folks request all manner of different firearms from Smith & Wesson on the Wish List Subforum, but never for an answer to the P365.
 
To me, the SIG P365 is an interesting firearm in a "It's cool that they could make a 9mm that small that holds so many rounds" sort of way, but it's not a firearm that I would ever choose for carry. Yes, it fills a niche for those who specifically desire the smallest, lightest, highest capacity 9mm pistol around, but personally I'd sooner opt to carry a Ruger LC9s or a Glock 19. To me, the P365 just falls into a size category which is basically too big to pocket carry yet too small for IWB carry or to fit my hand nicely.

When it comes to EDC, I carry a Smith & Wesson SW40VE which is a compact pistol about the size of a Glock 19 and a Ruger LCP as a backup. If I wanted something inbetween, then I would get a Ruger LC9s or an M&P40 Shield.

Ultimately, the P365 strikes me as a firearm offering a compromise between a Compact and a Subcompact, which I've honestly never heard anybody ask for.
Is it popular, of course it is, but is there significant enough demand for Smith & Wesson to design such a thing? Frankly, I don't think so. Folks request all manner of different firearms from Smith & Wesson on the Wish List Subforum, but never for an answer to the P365.

The 365 is virtually the same size and weight as the LC9S. Almost identical. It weighs a bit more loaded, but it also holds 3 more rounds. I think the 12 round mag for the 365 is as pointless as the 9 round one for the LC9S. Takes away from the whole point of the gun. Like all Sigs, I think the 365 is overpriced, especially the $50 or more mags, but it’s popular for a reason. And it is surely taking sales from S&W. Maybe not enough sales to get them to invest in a whole new gun, but who knows?

I DO know that the choices in subcompact 9’s seem endless, now. And none of them really do anything better than the Shield, except for a few more rounds that in all likelihood, none of us will ever need. Before COVID, Shields could be had for $200 less than the 365. That’s reason enough to choose it.
 
I DO know that the choices in subcompact 9’s seem endless, now. And none of them really do anything better than the Shield, except for a few more rounds that in all likelihood, none of us will ever need. Before COVID, Shields could be had for $200 less than the 365. That’s reason enough to choose it.

I agree, and personally I think—capacity aside—I like the Shield better, but I have to admit, my M&P9 M2.0 Subcompact shoots even better than the Shield and is shorter in the grip holding 12 rounds with a flush magazine. Aside from a slightly longer reset, I also think the trigger is better than my Performance Center Shield. I assume having more surface area and the dimensions of my hand have something to do with that.
 
I already own a Glock 26. Sure the P365 is smaller and lighter. Perhaps if I had to do it all over again I would go that route. But I'm happy with the last-gen subcompact 9mm. Someday my arguments will sound like those who still carry a 66 snub or 1911.

I agree with the general sentiment that training and attitude > firearm choice. My sis-in-law carries a P365, is well-trained by her LEO husband, but I know I can both outshoot her and hesitate less. Not to toot my own horn, but I'd take me with anything from a J frame .38 on up over her and her new SIG.
 
I agree, and personally I think—capacity aside—I like the Shield better, but I have to admit, my M&P9 M2.0 Subcompact shoots even better than the Shield and is shorter in the grip holding 12 rounds with a flush magazine. Aside from a slightly longer reset, I also think the trigger is better than my Performance Center Shield. I assume having more surface area and the dimensions of my hand have something to do with that.

Yeah, but the new subcompact is wider and heavier. For me, every ounce counts. I used to carry a Glock 19 and I now have an M&P 2.0 Compact. Same size as the 19. I never carry it. It just seems huge now. With cooler weather arriving I might carry it OWB but the Shield is still lighter so I’d probably still carry that. If I knew I was going into harms way I’d carry more but I just don’t live that life anymore.
 
I have a S&W 2.0 Compact, a Glock 43 and this January purchased a Sig P365. The compact is so much heavier it never gets carried. Its not the size,its the weight. The subcompact would be a couple of ounces lighter than the compact but still heavier than the P365. The Sig is close to the limit for how heavy a gun can be before I have to switch from a comfortable belt to a stiff, uncomfortable gun belt.

The Sig is hopefully going to replace my Glock 43 as my carry gun but is still on probation. Despite buying it in January 2020 after all the problems were supposedly corrected I had a few RTB failures the first range session that cleared up with use, cleaning and lubrication but started have FTE failures around the 500 round mark. Sig replaced everything except the slide and it has worked flawlessly since but it is going to take more than the two range trips and 200 rounds I have put through it before I trust it.

There is a limit to how light a slide can be on a reliable and durable semiauto and the guns like the P365 are real close to the limit. I bought a Kahr PM9 right after they came out and it ran great for about 500 rounds, started dropping magazines until Kahr sent me a metal mag catch to replace the plastic one, ran great for another 500 or so before it started having stovepipe and other FTE problems. A new recoil spring reduced but did not eliminate them. My Glock 43 has been reliable unless I try increasing the magazine capacity but it has a slightly (13 ounce vs 12 ounce) slide compared to the P365.

No gun make is perfect but Shields have a great reputation for being reliable and durable. A smaller, lighter higher capacity but finicky and less reliable P365 competitor would be a mistake. If S&W does make a gun like that I hope they take the time to make sure it is every bit as reliable and durable as the current Shield. Given the problems I have had with my P365 I would buy one even if it was an ounce or two heavier.
 
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I need to purchase a carry pistol within the next week or so. The cheapest price I see online for a Shield 2.0 is $392 plus shipping, tax, and FFL transfer. Most places are selling it higher.

A couple of local gun stores have P365’s in stock for $500. I was planning to purchase a Shield, but now I’m not sure. For another $100 I can gain a smaller pistol with more capacity.

If I’m going to pay $500, then I’ll consider the Hellcat as well.
 
The Hellcat is a good choice if you "need" 13 + 1. I have 2, one with the optic. Neither of them are close to the Shield, not as easy to carry but just as accurate for me. Both versions have a little more recoil than the Shield.
I have had 2 P365s, I just couldn't adjust to the "broom stick" grip, both are now with my friends. I am back to carrying my M.2 Shield. I also have converted a Shield to .357 Sig, a bit of a handful but fits in the 9mm kydex holster. Just as reliable as the 9.
I now truly think I am finished with "GAS".
I think if you can find one, a Shield M.2 is the right choice.
 
The Hellcat is a good choice if you "need" 13 + 1. I have 2, one with the optic. Neither of them are close to the Shield, not as easy to carry but just as accurate for me. Both versions have a little more recoil than the Shield.
I have had 2 P365s, I just couldn't adjust to the "broom stick" grip, both are now with my friends. I am back to carrying my M.2 Shield. I also have converted a Shield to .357 Sig, a bit of a handful but fits in the 9mm kydex holster. Just as reliable as the 9.
I now truly think I am finished with "GAS".
I think if you can find one, a Shield M.2 is the right choice.

What do you mean by the Hellcats are not close to the Shield?

And how are they not as easy to carry? Because loaded they are heavier perhaps?

Not familiar with the “GAS” reference.
 
If confident in the weapon accuracy and capacity, $ already invested, good to go. If in the market for a new EDC that is accurate, compact and carries 10 rounds, disregarding brand loyalty the 365 is a fine choice.
And to quote an oldie about capacity..you're only armed for as long as your ammo holds out.
 
If I couldn't get my Shield in my front pocket in a holster I'd look at the 365 but I can with pants with a vertical pocket design.

As far as capacity...I can keep all 8 rounds in the vitals at 25 yards slow fired with normal heart rate. I need to try sprinting for a couple hundred yards at max heart rate to see how I fair. In a life or death scene I know I'd be at max heart rate.
 
The 365 is virtually the same size and weight as the LC9S. Almost identical. It weighs a bit more loaded, but it also holds 3 more rounds. I think the 12 round mag for the 365 is as pointless as the 9 round one for the LC9S. Takes away from the whole point of the gun. Like all Sigs, I think the 365 is overpriced, especially the $50 or more mags, but it’s popular for a reason. And it is surely taking sales from S&W. Maybe not enough sales to get them to invest in a whole new gun, but who knows?

I DO know that the choices in subcompact 9’s seem endless, now. And none of them really do anything better than the Shield, except for a few more rounds that in all likelihood, none of us will ever need. Before COVID, Shields could be had for $200 less than the 365. That’s reason enough to choose it.

The dimensions between the two are just enough to make the LC9S fit more comfortably in the hand and point more naturally as a result. Also, the 3 additional rounds aren't enough to justify the massive difference in price.

Furthermore, while I like having more rounds in the magazine, all things considered, I'd rather carry a Compact pistol like the SD40VE which weighs only a few ounces more than the P365, but still conceals easily in an IWB Holster, has a longer sight radius, and holds 14+1 rounds of .40 S&W. Compared to the SD9VE, the gap only increases as it holds 16+1 rounds of 9mm.

Even if I wanted something in it's size-range, I'd rather carry a Shield in .40 S&W or .45 ACP which as far as I'm concerned, makes up the difference in capacity.
 
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Before the Covid insanity got going I was thinking about picking up a double stack sub-compact 9mm. I have been carrying a 2.0 Compact for about a year & a half. I have a Kahr CM9 to carry when I can't carry anything bigger but in all honesty I don't like it as there just isn't much there to hold on to. It is a good gun I would just like more grip.

Is the 2.0 Subcompact as thick as the compact (I really like my Compact but I would like something slightly thinner)? Before the gun market went insane I was looking at the Ruger American Compact pistol because I had found it for around $300 or less. Now those are selling for much more. If I have to spend $500 to get anything I am going to be more particular. I guess I need to find a P-365 to handle & see if I like how it feels or not.
 
I was always partial to FN, I know of their accuracy and reliability so I went with a FNS 9c...easy to carry and conceal but each to his own.
 
I currently own the 365XL, PC Shields, and a Hellcat. I now carry the Hellcat (capacity is the factor) and still carry a Shield on occasion. The Hellcat and Shield are far more accurate for me than the 365 (now a safe gun). For me the only thing the 365 has on the Shield is capacity. I shoot the Hellcat and Shield really close on the accuracy point and reliability has been outstanding on both so I felt comfortable using capacity as my deciding factor. Another nice "Little Gun" is the Walther PPS M2. I will say the Shield not only competes with the 365 but outperforms as well, my opinion only.
 
I have a S&W 2.0 Compact, a Glock 43 and this January purchased a Sig P365. The compact is so much heavier it never gets carried. Its not the size,its the weight. The subcompact would be a couple of ounces lighter than the compact but still heavier than the P365. The Sig is close to the limit for how heavy a gun can be before I have to switch from a comfortable belt to a stiff, uncomfortable gun belt.

One of my main carry guns is 34.2 ounces (my SIG P229 chambered in .357 SIG which has a heavier slide than the 9mm). I use it with a minimalist carry belt from Langdon Tactical Technology that only has support where it's needed. It is thus the lightest belt I've used to conceal carry over the last 15 years, and it supports that weight of my pistol just fine (as an aside, my body weight can and does change more than that in a single day). Everyone is different, but that's why I personally can't take serious complaints against weight. It just doesn't affect me. I am sure it affects others, and that must be rough, but I am happy I can carry the weight because, all things being equal, a heavier gun is going to handle and shoot better than a lighter one. I'm not saying that extra performance is necessary in a concealed carry gun, it's not, but it's just one more example of how the P365 is a great gun, but there are better choices for some people like me as a G26, M&P Subcompact, P229, etc. are better shooters in my hands (as are most of my carry guns). I also know how it stacks up to carrying lighter guns because I also carry a much lighter gun than a P365 (my Ruger LCP II which is only 10.6 ounces). I don't carry it as much, but I have it for comparison.

No gun make is perfect but Shields have a great reputation for being reliable and durable. A smaller, lighter higher capacity but finicky and less reliable P365 competitor would be a mistake. If S&W does make a gun like that I hope they take the time to make sure it is every bit as reliable and durable as the current Shield. Given the problems I have had with my P365 I would buy one even if it was an ounce or two heavier.

I totally agree that if they change the Shield Smith & Wesson does not sacrifice reliability (which is never worth the extra capacity in my opinion). Personally, since I prefer carrying appendix, I wouldn't want anything shorter either. In fact, I prefer carrying larger guns because the longer barrels tend to work better with the wedges I put on my holsters to mitigate flagging myself.

As an aside, I doubt the geometry of the P365 magazine was lost on pistol manufacturers. That's a whole other matter, but it is too simple a technology for manufacturers to have not been sitting on it for years (if not decades), but manufacturers work together in my opinion to...well, I am going off on a tangent. All I will say is that if I owned a company like Glock, Smith & Wesson, SIG Sauer, etc., I would have fired my engineers thirty years ago if they couldn't bring me a magazine design that could fit that many rounds in that size of a magazine. It's not like some new super strong thinner metal was invented, and of course it's no coincidence that "Springfield Armory" (if that's what we want to call it) came out with an even better magazine design within a year or so. I wouldn't be surprised if Smith and Glock come out with higher capacity magazines that change their key subcompact pistols little (if at all).

Anyway, like I said, the P365 is a great gun, but as you alluded to, there are always sacrifices made in pistols, and while the S&W Subcompact and Glock 26 are bigger and heavier, they are noticeably better shooters in my opinion, yet they're small enough for me to conceal in any way I'd conceal a P365, and even better for the reason I mentioned. That said, everyone is different. Some people really need a smaller gun than the M&P Subcompact or the G26, and in those cases the P365 is a godsend that prevents them from having to give up little or anything in terms of capacity.
 
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I own a 2nd gen Glock 26, and have carried it since new. It is accurate and has been reliable thru thousands of rounds. If I had a complaint, it is a little thick for ISWB carry.

Was not really in the market for a new carry 9mm, but when a friend bought a new P-365, and I got to try it, and it really got my attention. Distinctly thinner than the Glock, and that small grip actually felt better in my hand. Bought one myself, and after about 500 rounds with no issue, it now has replaced the 26 as my every day carry, barring any future reliability issues. It is amazing how just a slight difference in thickness can make such a difference in how it feels carried ISWB, though the difference is less pronounced carried OWB. Better trigger as well, though the 26 isn't bad.

As far as magazine capacity goes, all else being equal, more is always better.

A lot of folks quote the statistic the average gun fight is something like "2.7 shots at 3 to 5 feet". That means 49% of armed encounters are going to involve more shots at longer ranges.......

Larry
 
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