I have been unable to loosen the extractor rod on a 70's vintage K-frame. I have an extractor rod removal tool, I'm supporting the star with empty cases, reverse threads.... I can only quess that loctite has been used on this revolver. Would modest heat to the rod while shielding the cylinder be worth trying? Any suggestions? Thank you.
Can't loosen extractor rod on K-frame
- Thread starter dpsix
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tomcatt51
Member
Grab the extractor rod in a drill chuck, one that uses a chuck key.
This is the way I do it and I have never seen one I can't get loose-
I place two pieces of clean, sanded pine 1x's between the jaws of my shop vice, then I place the rod itself in between them and tighten the jaws down good and snug. I make sure that the cylinder is close to the edges of the wood to help prevent any side torque on the rod that might bend it. The pine is soft enough that the rod can be compressed into the wood which gives a great hold. I use the empty cases too, and in all chambers. I simply grab the cylinder with my bare hands and turn it loose-righty loosey in this case. When done and ready to reassemble, I simply reverse the process, lefty tighty. You can get the rod snug enough that it won't come loose again, and not do any harm to the rod's finish either.
I place two pieces of clean, sanded pine 1x's between the jaws of my shop vice, then I place the rod itself in between them and tighten the jaws down good and snug. I make sure that the cylinder is close to the edges of the wood to help prevent any side torque on the rod that might bend it. The pine is soft enough that the rod can be compressed into the wood which gives a great hold. I use the empty cases too, and in all chambers. I simply grab the cylinder with my bare hands and turn it loose-righty loosey in this case. When done and ready to reassemble, I simply reverse the process, lefty tighty. You can get the rod snug enough that it won't come loose again, and not do any harm to the rod's finish either.
The switch from right hand to left hand threads took place in the '60-'61 timespan. Any '70's vintage S&W will have left handed threads. Sometime in the '80's, S&W went back to using rods without the relief cut behind the knurling so you can't rely on that either.
m1gunner
US Veteran
If you think it has red locktite, heat is about you can get to it. There is a solvent that will work, but is doubtful it will wick enough in the threads to help.
If it were mine, I would have it mounted to the removal tool, with 6 empty cases in place and toss it in an oven @ 325 degrees till it heat soaks.
Then pull it out and twist it off. Pot holders or clean welders gloves might be a good idea for this maneuver.
Some grades of red locktite need over 400 degrees, not sure I am comfortable with that much heat.
If it were mine, I would have it mounted to the removal tool, with 6 empty cases in place and toss it in an oven @ 325 degrees till it heat soaks.
Then pull it out and twist it off. Pot holders or clean welders gloves might be a good idea for this maneuver.
Some grades of red locktite need over 400 degrees, not sure I am comfortable with that much heat.
I think I will let the cylinder sit in some penetrating oil for a day or two, mount it back in the removal tool, mount the tool in lathe chuck to free up a hand, heat the rod with a hair dryer first and see what happens. I have always managed to get these things loose just using lead shims and a small table vice. This one is different. I do believe it is the dreaded Red Loctite. My gun buying choices as of late have been nothing to brag about.
500 Magnum Nut
Member
If some knuckle head put locktite on the rod, place cylinder assembly in toaster oven. Heat the oven to approximately 482 degrees Fahrenheit. Disassemble turning clockwise while hot. If you allow the parts to cool, the locktite will reactivate.
tomcatt51
Member
Soak/submerge it in acetone. That will disolve the loctite. If it was loctited.
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I have not personally tried this, but I used to deal with the local Locktite Rep. in my area and he told me that a few drops of new Locktite on the old Locktite will dissolve it temporarily, long enough to loosen the stuck thread. I know that "like substances dissolve like substances" so in theory it should work perfectly.
G4F:
I use the same wood-in-a-vise method as well. Works great. Also insert spent cases in all charges holes to keep from twisting.
Chief38
G4F:
I use the same wood-in-a-vise method as well. Works great. Also insert spent cases in all charges holes to keep from twisting.
Chief38
Milton
US Veteran
I have used an electric soldering iron to locally heat the rod and remove it while hot.
andyo5
Member
I guess that I must qualify as a knuckle head. I had a '70s Bangor Punta made model 14 and found that both the cylinder latch screw and the extractor rod would unscrew themselves on a regular basis. Loctite solved the problem in both cases, but I used blue Loctite, not red.
If someone used red loctite, you are unlikely to break it free without either chemical treatment or major mechanical force.
Unless there is a specific reason to remove the extractor rod, I'd leave it alone and just enjoy shooting the gun. But you may feel differently, of course.
<This is the way I do it and I have never seen one I can't get loose-
I place two pieces of clean, sanded pine 1x's between the jaws of my shop vice, then I place the rod itself in between them and tighten the jaws down good and snug. I make sure that the cylinder is close to the edges of the wood to help prevent any side torque on the rod that might bend it. The pine is soft enough that the rod can be compressed into the wood which gives a great hold. I use the empty cases too, and in all chambers. I simply grab the cylinder with my bare hands and turn it loose-righty loosey in this case. When done and ready to reassemble, I simply reverse the process, lefty tighty. You can get the rod snug enough that it won't come loose again, and not do any harm to the rod's finish either. >
+1 on this technique. If you have soaked it in oil, make sure that you thoroughly degrease the cylinder assembly before you put it back together. I use CRC Brakleen. You should not have to lock-tite the center pin and the rod if the threads are oil free. Every time I come across a rod that I can loosen with my fingers, it is invariably a gun that is over-oiled.
I place two pieces of clean, sanded pine 1x's between the jaws of my shop vice, then I place the rod itself in between them and tighten the jaws down good and snug. I make sure that the cylinder is close to the edges of the wood to help prevent any side torque on the rod that might bend it. The pine is soft enough that the rod can be compressed into the wood which gives a great hold. I use the empty cases too, and in all chambers. I simply grab the cylinder with my bare hands and turn it loose-righty loosey in this case. When done and ready to reassemble, I simply reverse the process, lefty tighty. You can get the rod snug enough that it won't come loose again, and not do any harm to the rod's finish either. >
+1 on this technique. If you have soaked it in oil, make sure that you thoroughly degrease the cylinder assembly before you put it back together. I use CRC Brakleen. You should not have to lock-tite the center pin and the rod if the threads are oil free. Every time I come across a rod that I can loosen with my fingers, it is invariably a gun that is over-oiled.
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andyo5:
Next time you experience an extractor loosening up, give the method that G4F and I have used; it works rather well. Two pieces of relatively soft wood in a vise, spent cases in the cylinder charge holes and your bare hand. Like G4F states, keep the cylinder close to the wood so the rod does not bend when you tighten it. I think you will not need any Locktite at all. Just remember, modern Smith's have left handed extractor threads.
Regards,
Chief38
Next time you experience an extractor loosening up, give the method that G4F and I have used; it works rather well. Two pieces of relatively soft wood in a vise, spent cases in the cylinder charge holes and your bare hand. Like G4F states, keep the cylinder close to the wood so the rod does not bend when you tighten it. I think you will not need any Locktite at all. Just remember, modern Smith's have left handed extractor threads.
Regards,
Chief38
Thank you all for the help. Soaked the cylinder last night in penetrating oil and this morning in acetone. Mounted the removal tool on rod, toasted it, chucked tool holding the extractor rod in lathe and with a reasonable twist on the cylinder, off it came. Extractor, rod and collar now soaking in acetone to remove crud from threads. You all should write a supplement to Jerry Kuhnhausen's Shop Manual.
Black_Talon
Member
At what temp?
500 Magnum Nut
Member
I hate to run across this product when I'm working on guns. When someone uses the strong stuff, I run the chance of stripping screws or breaking stuff. S&W doesn't use this on their guns because they know how to tighten them down correctly. They have been making revolvers for over 150 years, so I'd take their opinions on some stuff. I paid good money for the S&W Armorers manual plus the AGI DVDs so I'm prejudiced on some gun repair methods. Schools can do that to a person.
I promise you, If I ever worked on your gun, your extractor rod wouldn't loosen up, and I didn't use 1 drop of locktite on it.
Sure, the other minor screws will loosen, but that's what a screw driver is for. Whenever I clean them, I go over the frame and just snug all the screws up. Shooting the 500 Mag, you really need a screw driver and go over that gun!
I love guys who locktite the rear sights on their pistols then cry that the gun won't fire. The stuff leaked down into the firing pin channel and froze the firing pin up. Into the oven it goes!
But that's another story.
I hate to run across this product when I'm working on guns. When someone uses the strong stuff, I run the chance of stripping screws or breaking stuff. S&W doesn't use this on their guns because they know how to tighten them down correctly. They have been making revolvers for over 150 years, so I'd take their opinions on some stuff. I paid good money for the S&W Armorers manual plus the AGI DVDs so I'm prejudiced on some gun repair methods. Schools can do that to a person.
I promise you, If I ever worked on your gun, your extractor rod wouldn't loosen up, and I didn't use 1 drop of locktite on it.
Sure, the other minor screws will loosen, but that's what a screw driver is for. Whenever I clean them, I go over the frame and just snug all the screws up. Shooting the 500 Mag, you really need a screw driver and go over that gun!
I love guys who locktite the rear sights on their pistols then cry that the gun won't fire. The stuff leaked down into the firing pin channel and froze the firing pin up. Into the oven it goes!
Sir,
Three comments.
1. Your advice is superb and we appreciate it.
2. Can this be added to the FAQs?
3. Have you ever thought about teaching a course or at least making a DVD?
tomcatt51
Member
That's why you just submerge it in acetone and wait. It's like removing copper fouling, run a wet patch thru the bore and wait for the solvents to do their job.
500 Magnum Nut
Member
No, because the metal rods in a toaster oven (on the food rack) do not turn red. If the metal changes color, then that's where the danger is. This temp I give is from loctite.
It took me a while, but here is the website, in the faqs
Threadlockers, Thread Sealers, Gasketing, Retaining. Loctite® Anaerobic Adhesives For Professionals.
Look at the third question from the top..........I cannot get assembly apart.......
On this website it shows that over 400C / 750F is where metal begins to change color...
http://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/wiki/Temperature_when_metal_glows_red
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500 Magnum Nut
Member
Guys that use silencers use what is refered to as "the dip". Some guys drop gun barrels into the stuff.
It's a 50/50 mix solution of white vinegar and hydrogen peroxide. (Guys drop parts into a 1/2 filled jar) This solution poured in a jar will remove lead & copper from suppressors in a few hours or less. However it eats aluminum so you can't use this acid on that type of metal.
Hydrogen peroxide + vinegar will create Peracetic acid which continuously outgases oxygen. That means that if you leave the lid on a jar tightly for an extended period, the jar might burst, spraying glass and acid all over the place.
Use with care, liquidfied lead can kill you! Dispose of old acid properly.
tomcatt51
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tomcatt51,
I have seen the red substance on the thumb screws many many times and I have always wondered if it is "Locktite". No doubt that it is some sort or brand of thread locker, but since the Red Locktite is extremely difficult to loosen, and the yoke screw comes out fairly easy, I always question weather or not it is "Locktite". Maybe some other sort of mild type of locker.
Chief38
I have seen the red substance on the thumb screws many many times and I have always wondered if it is "Locktite". No doubt that it is some sort or brand of thread locker, but since the Red Locktite is extremely difficult to loosen, and the yoke screw comes out fairly easy, I always question weather or not it is "Locktite". Maybe some other sort of mild type of locker.
Chief38
tomcatt51
Member
I didn't represent it as being Loctite (spelling) or red Loctite. Simply that it was factory applied thread locker.
My guns get the ejector rod, yoke screw, and strain screw blue Loctited. Why? Because they tend to come loose. I don't like being the guy with his cyl/yoke assembly falling on the ground during reloads, or with the loose ejector tieing up the gun. It's really annoying in the middle of a stage. Blue Loctite used SPARINGLY keeps the parts in place and is easily removed. Do what you like on yours. If 50 rds at the range is a big shooting session and you tighten everything everytime afterwards it's probably a non-issue. I expect mine to shoot at least 500 rds without attention other than cleaning the chambers afterwards.
bob2231
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Just a minor addition,for anyone who may be interested.I worked in Tool & Die for quite a few years and red Loctite was pretty common.Since soaking and cooking weren't possible the easiest way to loosen the locker was to spray the screw with engine starting fluid and let it work down into the threads.For gun parts,you'd want to be very careful about not getting the spray all over,and don't use too much.
Once the parts are disassembled the spray is also very good at cleaning the threads,especially the female since it's hard to get anything into those small holes to clean them.
A warning though.The parts we worked on,appearance didn't matter,and I don't know if the ether would have any effect on the finish.
Bob
Once the parts are disassembled the spray is also very good at cleaning the threads,especially the female since it's hard to get anything into those small holes to clean them.
A warning though.The parts we worked on,appearance didn't matter,and I don't know if the ether would have any effect on the finish.
Bob
Bullseye Smith
Member
Put the cylinder in the frezzer over night, then try to take it apart. Heat will make the parts get bigger and the cold will make them smaller.
