Can't take it any more.....

[motorcyclejoe]

I just cannot handle the trigger on my M&P9, 4.25, with thumb safety. The trigger measures about 7.5 - 8.0 lbs, is gritty, and has a mushy break. I just cannot pull the trigger through a complete cycle without pulling to the right. On occasion if I use the precise center of the tip of my finger, pull exactly in alignment with the barrel (no more than .0001 degrees off),be in a complete state of central focus, exhale, and stop my heart from beating, I can get into the Dot Torture bulls eyes at 7 yds. With my 1911 I can fill the Dot Torture bulls eyes without really trying.

So here's the question - should I go to an Apex trigger or trade in on an M&P Pro? I'd loose the thumb safety (which I'm almost sorry I got), but hopefully would have a much more accurate, manageable, consistent, and fun pistol - with a trigger - instead of a vague stick.... My current M&P is fine if you are shooting at silhouettes, but if you want to aim small - forget it.

Can you tell I'm frustrated?

 

[TTSH]

Can you tell I'm frustrated?

I feel your pain. I'm frustrated too (and even more so 'cause I am in MA where MA-compliant triggers are, believe it or not, even worse). I finally gave up on a long-planned M&P45 purchase in November and went with an HK45 (DA/SA) instead.

Then earlier this month, I had an opportunity to pickup an M&P9 for a song... but again, the awful trigger and the need for a $100 Apex kit made the "good deal" kind of moot.

Believe me, I feel your pain.

 

[hardluk1]

I don't even worthy about . Buy an M&P and some amount of apex parts are going into it. I have a safety on mine so I ordered the comp kit with aluminum trigger. My wife has a CORE and pull weight is fine but gritty still. Added a apex striker block and its ok at 4.4lb pull.

I have looked at several pistols before buying the m&p . Todays there a lot of bad triggers produced by most companies. Most could use some type of help.

 

[Llando88]

Apex.

/thread.

 

[thndrchiken]

I did the Apex DCAEK and the polymer trigger kit. Has is right where I want it for a carry gun. BTW you don't have to put the thumb safety back in.

 

[marine6680]

Apex... They are great trigger kits for the M&P, worth the cost. I wish the M&P didn't need one, but the stock trigger leaves much to be desired.

Some may be fine with stock, but I was not one of them.


I put in the FSS kit with polymer trigger, and I polished up the trigger bar. Then I adjusted the trigger to have a little take up, then break near the rear of the pull with a little over travel to ensure the seat would release without fail. It has a very crisp break at 5.5lb pull.

The standard trigger kit will be similar but the break is a little less defined, just a little mushiness. Much smoother and cleaner pull than stock.

 

[motorcyclejoe]

S&W Performance Center Actions Service?

Do you think the S&W Action Service would help? It includes polished ramp, tuned action, installation of a Performance Center Sear, and test fire for function. It costs $120, or $150 for express service. I think it would be worth it if it helped with the trigger action?

 

[gboling]

I would send it to S&W for trigger work.

 

[motorcyclejoe]

Thanks for all the replies. I think I'll call S&W tomorrow and make arrangements to have the action package performed. I actually like the M&P very much. The ergonomics are great, the build quality is excellent, the 3 back-straps are great, and it just has a quality feel. Why they can't install a decent trigger from the very beginning is baffling. My guess is it would not cost any more to do so, and I really doubt it's because they want aftermarket business. I guess they just sell enough low end M&Ps that it doesn't justify making a change. While a better trigger ultimately wouldn't significantly cost any more to mass produce, getting there probably has a significant one-time change-over cost. I guess another added benefit is the poor reputation the M&P trigger has will push more people upscale.

 

[WilliamB]

I went with Apex. Fantastic trigger. Not as good as a custom 1911 but still excellent. I has my gunsmith install some Dawson sights on it and he said it was the best trigger he ever felt on a M&P or Glock. Also improved tactile feel on the reset. From what I have shot the Pro doesn't compare to the Apex. The Apex makes a good gun a great gun.

 

[Wyatt p. Tato]

What, when the M&P first came out, the reports were, that it had a great trigger. Has S&W forgot how to build triggers? Why don't they just sell the gun without the trigger group for a reduced price. Why pay full price for a gun then spend another $120.00-$150.00 for something that works?

 

[ATF]

I have the M&P Pro 4.25" 9mm and although the trigger was smooth from stock the takeup was far too long and reset non-existent.

I installed the full Apex kit including ejector and now it's a superb gun.

Easy to ditch your safety and plug the hole.

 

[WilliamB]

What, when the M&P first came out, the reports were, that it had a great trigger. Has S&W forgot how to build triggers? Why don't they just sell the gun without the trigger group for a reduced price. Why pay full price for a gun then spend another $120.00-$150.00 for something that works?

In my experience most new stock pistols aside from 1911s don't have great triggers. The APEX I put in is crisp without creep or over travel. I have done 2 so far the 9 and 9c. My carry pistols are untouched. Some people learn to live with stock triggers others don't. Duty guns are generally not messed with. Range guns are.

 

[WilliamB]

You obviously haven't shot a Walther PPQ, H&K VP9, CZ P09, or FNX.......

I guess our criteria is a bit different on what we consider to be a good trigger. I have had Hamilton Bowen work on many of my revolvers. Seriously stock CZ pistols have heavy and maybe rough triggers depending upon the model. Currently CZCustom is building me an Accu Shadow BLK, Cajun Gunworks a couple of months ago built me a custom a CZ 97 BE and they are currently working on my CZ 75B. Cajun Gunworks are known for producing some of the finest CZ triggers. Also my custom 1911s by Les Baer and Wilson also have nice triggers. Also forgot SDM and my 625.I'm sure if I think about it a bit the list will get longer. The gold standard is a custom 1911 trigger. Your mileage clearly differs from mine. Try some of the examples I mentioned and then we can compare notes.

 

[Prasko]

If you're competent enough to put the apex system in, you are also competent enought to polish the trigger parts.

Polish the trigger bar loop, striker block, and rear of the sear. Don't remove material on the sear or loop, just polish. The striker block NEEDS to be rounded and polished.

Doing those three things helps A LOT. Trust me.

 

[hardluk1]

prasko . Good advise with some early m&p's. These latest "upgraded" models don't seem to make is great an improvements with polishing /stoning.

Reset feel is better but still to heavy and some grittiness feeling even after working the parts. I know . I spend a few hours try'n to not buy apex parts.

 

[Prasko]

The grit is caused by the striker block and trigger bar loop. Polishing the rear sear face drops trigger pull weight a little bit.

When I purchased my new compact, which was a 2013 production, the trigger was ridiculously heavy. 8lbs+. I did what I mentioned above and it's sitting around 5lbs now.

 

[WilliamB]

The APEX kits have new springs as well as some of the parts have different geometries. The trigger is completely different and the articulated trigger safety re-engineered. APEX has a number of YouTube vids explaining some of these differences. They are interesting if you have a moment.

My trigger in the 9 is about 3lbs using a digital Lyman scale for measurement.

 

[randyr5]

I did the Burwell trigger job and added the Apex poly trigger.

 

[WilliamB]

I did the Burwell trigger job and added the Apex poly trigger.

Very nice. How do you like the results?

 

[dipperdave]

I also just received my M&P 9 with 4.25 inch barrel and no safety. The trigger is pretty bad, full of grit. It is the worst striker fired trigger I have ever owned from any manufacturer. This is only my second M&P. I bought the first one , a full size .45 ACP about 4 years ago and it came with a very good trigger straight out of the box. From what I have read on this and other forums, Smith has gradually improved the M&P trigger since they first brought it out. That may be true, but my older one has a much better trigger to the new one. Maybe you just have to get lucky to get a good trigger.

I do love the feel of an M&P so I guess I will take the Apek route. Although I have owned several Glocks, and still have three of them, it has taken a lot of handling and dry firing for a Glock to begin to feel okay (not good but just okay) in my hand. The Smith M&P in any size feels just right for me so I'll shell out the money to improve the trigger on this one.

 

[BrianE]

I think S&W should come with Apex triggers. They started producing collaborations with that lame-o Wyatt, why not with Randy. [emoji4]

 

[motorcyclejoe]

Called S&W customer support today to see if I could make arrangements for the pistol action package. Greeting said they are only handling police and military emergencies this week, so I'll need to call next week. I'm also going to see if they will install the True Glo sights I order last week. Hoping that won't cost much since they need to remove the rear sight anyway.

 

[Prasko]

I just wish apex would produce a standard flat faced trigger that doesn't require the FSS kit be installed

 

[WilliamB]

Called S&W customer support today to see if I could make arrangements for the pistol action package. Greeting said they are only handling police and military emergencies this week, so I'll need to call next week. I'm also going to see if they will install the True Glo sights I order last week. Hoping that won't cost much since they need to remove the rear sight anyway.

You may want to evaluate the costs of going with S&W plus postage both ways and comparing it to APEX. You can also send your pistol to APEX and they will install it for a service fee. Alternatively there are some very excellent vids on YOUTUBE instructing about the install. That's what I did.

I followed the vids step by step. Each step I followed I put the vid on pause. The first pistol took about 1/2 hour and the second one without the vid took me only 15 minutes or so when I did it months latter. Also the rear sight is very easy to install. There are lots of vids on this also.

The most important thing is just make sure you use the proper size roll pin punch. Very difficult to do any permanent damage. Go slow and you should be fine.

It seemed to me to be intimidating at first but it really was very easy. If you get in trouble you can always take it to a local gunsmith.

If you are undecided take a look at the APEX install vids. Actually there are some better ones on other YouTube channels.

No matter what you decide you have chosen wisely to improve the trigger.

 

[marine6680]

I have seen many who prefer the Apex kit over the M&P Pro trigger. If the enhancement package from SW is similar, then I would say the Apex is a better deal.

Similar cost... But potentially cheaper as well.

I got the FFS with poly trigger kit. Others like the AEK and then add the separate trigger.

The install is pretty easy with a set of standard and roll punches, a small vice or other method to hold the slide when driving out the rear sight. (mine was pretty easy to remove, not a lot of force, I used a rag to prevent marks, took it slow) A block of wood with a hole drilled in it to help with driving out the pins.

 

[Steyr Man 146]

There is tons of info on you tube about doing inexpensive trigger work.....On any hand gun made you might be out tools but if you have patients and love of gunsmithing you can bring it down to 5.15 on the trigger

 

[hardluk1]

I did the straight trigger fss kit. Glad I did as it turns a below average trigger pull into the class of the field , really . Very smooth 4lb pull . For me its worth it. I have done the DIY trigger jobs and 5lbs is possible BUT not like what some apex parts can do.

 

[triggerb]

If you're confident in removing the rear sights, you can remove the striker safety plunger to polish it lightly and evenly with 1000-2000 grit sandpaper. You can round it off as well if you'd like.
Then you can lightly polish the striker block itself where it makes contact with the sear.

If you're not confident in removing the rear sights, you can still noticeably remove the gritty feel by looking at the trigger bar and noticing where the bar meets the striker blocker and sear, the metal has horizontal lines extruding from the bar. This is from machining and on more expensive guns this will have been polished out at the factory. You can similarly use 1000-2000 grit sandpaper going against the grain to evenly polish this out. You don't need to remove the trigger assembly to do this but I would, and it's simple enough. Make sure to clean everything well afterwards.

You can go further by removing the sear block housing and lightly polishing the contact points on the sear.

They key to everything I've mentioned is- lightly. You can always remove more material but if you remove too much on the first go, you're buying new parts. Less is more. I've done the Apex install on my own M&P and wasn't floored by the results so I took my old parts and did these polishing techniques. After installing the factory parts and going to the range I regret dropping $90 on the Apex kit, though I respect their engineering efforts and many others swear by the parts.

 

[touchoneoff]

How is your shooting while using the distal joint of your trigger finger? I have large hands, so on most of my pistols, I use the distal joint of my finger, instead of the "pad" of the finger tip.