Captain Crozier!

[Onomea]

Whatta weenie.

 

[WuzzFuzz]

I'm now waiting for Capt/Sec/Mr. Wright to show up.

2 wrongs = wright


WuzzFuzz

 

[muddocktor]

I said earlier in this thread that Modly would be fired.

He has now submitted his resignation. I suppose that's better than hanging around waiting to be canned.

Either way works for me.

You reap what you sow.

And that is what Modly needed to do, after him acting very unprofessional in his "speech" to the crew of the TR. Nobody is stupid that gets to that position in the navy and I am sure the Captain knew there would be repercussions to his letter and I further believe that he sent the letter knowing he would most probably be canned. But to stoop to name calling by Modly is just inexcusable.

 

[Hapworth]

I have noticed that most of the "slams" against he military, and chain-of-command protocols, have come from those (at least according to their sign-in info) who have not served. A question to you: To whom do you think avails you of the life and freedoms which you enjoy and cherish in this country? Is it all up to us "poor, dumb, patriotic hicks" to provide you, of the entitled group of national lampreys, with the security necessary to float through a cushy existence?...

Thank you for your service. Now get over yourself.

The answer to your finger wagging "whom do you think..." question is significantly broader, deeper and more complex than the one-word answer you're looking for, and if you didn't serve to help ensure your fellow countrymen the freedom and liberty to hold perspectives different from yours, you got it wrong.

 

[smoothshooter]

From here, it looks like he absolutely did the right thing, just not the correct thing as prescribed by the Navy. Reading between the lines, it looks as though he wasn't getting any response by going through channels. That might not be the case, but If he reasonably saw it as a matter of life or death, with time being of the essence, then he did the right thing from a moral standpoint, at least.

Presumably he was aware of the consequences for his career, which he will have to accept in any event If there were any political considerations behind the Navy's apparent foot-dragging, then I would root for him even more strongly.

So, how many deaths WERE there among the crew?
The last I read, there were none.

Major security breach, in my opinion.
The CPT notified our enemies that one of our deployed ships may not have been fully operational.
Not the kind of thing that should be broadcast. Probably has political aspirations in the future.

 

[biku324]

Acting Secretary Modly resigned a couple hours ago. I doubt he'll be missed.

 

[Absalom]

Acting Secretary Modly resigned a couple hours ago. I doubt he'll be missed.

Indeed.

So the Secretary relieves a Captain of his command because he wrote a critical letter that wasn't necessarily meant for wide publication but inevitably made its way into the media.

Then that same Secretary flies out to that ship yesterday and offends the crew by giving an improvised speech insulting the Captain that wasn't necessarily meant for wide publication either but just as inevitably made its way into the media.

The Secretary of Defense finally realized that he actually had a job to do, and made Modly apologize to everybody and his hamster, but by then even Modly must have realized that he just needed to get the heck out of there before he got fired via twitter.

 

[Czechvar]

 

[UncleEd]

So, how many deaths WERE there among the crew?
The last I read, there were none.

Major security breach, in my opinion.
The CPT notified our enemies that one of our deployed ships may not have been fully operational.
Not the kind of thing that should be broadcast. Probably has political aspirations in the future.

You live in a Tom Clancy fantasy world. The "enemy already knew the ship was being taken out of service if their intelligence is any way half as good as that of the U.S.

And ask yourself, what role does the aircraft carriet serve in
the near or distant future. Many officers of the U.S. Navy know
that the aircraft carrier's time is nearing its end.

 

[STCM(SW)]

"And ask yourself, what role does the aircraft carrier serve in
the near or distant future. Many (unknown)officers of the U.S. Navy know
that the aircraft carrier's time is nearing its end. "

Coming from a ground pounder, I find this funny......
Projecting air power anywhere in the world is paramount!
3/4 of the earth is covered with some kind of water........

 

[biku324]

Even the Navy is grudgingly starting to understand that one hypersonic missile costing less than $3 million (ChiCom DF-21 and newer models under development) can destroy a $12 billion carrier. Why do you suppose they evaluated their only carrier, then instead of building/operationalizing more opted to build islands in the shallows of the West Phillipine Sea?

 

[STCM(SW)]

"Even the Navy is begrudgingly starting to understand that one hyper sonic missile costing less than $3 million (ChiCom DF-21 and newer models under development) can destroy a $12 billion carrier".

The Navy has shot down such missiles in the past and has even newer ways of doing it with powerful waves at the speed of light.
Never underestimate our technology.

 

[biku324]

Or our vulnerability.

 

[muddocktor]

Even the Navy is grudgingly starting to understand that one hypersonic missile costing less than $3 million (ChiCom DF-21 and newer models under development) can destroy a $12 billion carrier. Why do you suppose they evaluated their only carrier, then instead of building/operationalizing more opted to build islands in the shallows of the West Phillipine Sea?

I won't argue about the missile thing, but where do you come up with your Chinese carrier info? Because they now have 1 carrier fully operational, another new carrier doing workups after commissioning and 2 more building on the ways, with the third one supposed to launch this year. And these next 2 carriers are supposed to be CATOBAR carriers, like ours. Sure, they built up the artificial islands, but they have also kept up building carriers too. I'm sure they built the islands up because that gives them muscle to exploit potential petroleum reserves in the area that are contested by China, Vietnam and The Philippines.

 

[Onomea]

An op-ed in USA Today by Brett Odom, an Annapolis classmate and friend of Crozier's defending the captain:

"...As a carrier aviator with more than 500 arrested landings and multiple deployments over the course of 11 years of active service, I am intimately familiar with the intense environment aboard a nuclear aircraft carrier. I have zero doubt that Brett did exactly what was necessary to communicate the facts of a difficult situation to the chain of command, and that he did it by the book. Having observed his character closely under intense pressure, over the course of decades, I do not believe for a moment that he 'panicked' or let himself be ruled by emotions..."

Full article here: Navy fired my friend over coronavirus letter and defamed his character

 

[TheOldPro]

As a former Naval Aviator, I'm dang glad I never worked for a boss that would tell a newspaper before he told his boss.

 

[biku324]

I won't argue about the missile thing, but where do you come up with your Chinese carrier info? Because they now have 1 carrier fully operational, another new carrier doing workups after commissioning and 2 more building on the ways, with the third one supposed to launch this year. And these next 2 carriers are supposed to be CATOBAR carriers, like ours. Sure, they built up the artificial islands, but they have also kept up building carriers too. I'm sure they built the islands up because that gives them muscle to exploit potential petroleum reserves in the area that are contested by China, Vietnam and The Philippines.

My understanding, and it is far from complete, is that the PLA Navy started on an ambitious carrier plan when they clandestinely bought the first former (incomplete) Soviet medium carrier to jumpstart their program. The story I heard, in the Sulu Archipelago during a 4 year stint doing security force development contracting very recently, was that they were deeply into the construction program as they finished out the first carrier and appropriate aircraft, then realized it would take a generation to get men and equipment to combat readiness even a pale imitation of that of a mature navy with decades of carrier/task force warfighting experience. I also understand that's when they hit the gas on island-building. The Chinese already had a gianormous investment in carriers by then; it would be unrealistic to expect them to turn it off.

It's not just the oil/gas in the West Phillipine Sea - it's the protein. That sea is one of the world's largest breeding grounds for various pelagic fish species. Coincidentally, 1/3 of the world's population (including that of the Chinese) lives within 1500 miles of Scarborough Shoal; food security depends on the proteins within the so-called 'nine-dash line.'

Helpful?

 

[sbrmike]

The news said the Sec of Def told the Navy Sec to apologize. They didn't say it, and I never heard it anywhere, but I will bet he told him to resign as well. He was an idiot for sure.
The readiness leak is inexcuseable. Enough said on that.
I may not have been clear earlier. There are right and wrong ways to jump the chain of command. But, they are still in the chain of command. He went outside the chain of command. Poor judgement, possibly out of frustration, but he was the commander of a nuclear powered aircraft carrier.

ETA: The military is not afforded every legal right that civilians. You are not allowed to sue the chain of command. You are taught on day one that by joining the military you cede some rights. I doubt he gets his job back. He didn't get kicked out of the service he was relieved of command. I think the President will get him a good job though.

 

[Kanewpadle]

Let's leave sentiment and personal feelings out of this.

The chain of command is there for a reason. Period. No excuses. No end arounds no matter what the reason.

It doesn't matter that you think you're right. Your feelings don't matter at all. Bypassing the chain of command for any reason will be met with punishment. It's always been that way. It will never change and shouldn't.

He gave up is career for his men and women. That's not a bad thing. But he went about it the wrong way.

 

[Czechvar]

This has become a can of worms for the DoD. My opinion is that Crozier will be 'allowed' to retire at his current rank after a short investigation. The part that turns everything upside down is that he actually did violate established Operational Security Protocols while in command of pretty much the most powerful weapons platform on the planet. If you've never done career Active Duty time and aren't familiar with the UCMJ, this is very serious...people actually get charged with violations of the UCMJ that can result in loss of rank and jail time.

I imagine this whole fiasco will be smoothed over so it can go away...I'm kind of getting tired of it myself.