Carrying a backup gun? Why or why not?

[comtedeloach]

I'll continue t do what I think is best. As for you, I guess you're gonna find out the hard way. Your opinion is fine. But calling people names isn't.

So, we aren't going to lunch next week because "you don't think I am properly armed?"

And yes, after seeing some of the things people say about gun reliability it does show real extremism. And no one called you any names, you had not responded to this thread at the time, that was all in your mind.

 

[rwsmith]

If I go into a place.....

If I go into a place that says, "No handguns allowed" I can have an empty holster to show everybody that I'm not armed and a pistol in my pocket.

 

[jimmyj]

Allow me to introduce myself

Always carried a model 36 snubby as a backup to my model 10.
In NYPD back in the 80s we had swivel holsters when assigned to vehicle patrol. If you are not familiar with these, google images will show you. Its swivel point was a bolt and washers affair.

It was a super busy Saturday night in July in Harlem. Quite a few priority calls, and also a few phony 'officer shot' calls put in by the drug dealers to send us running to another location so they could conduct business.

At one point we had 3 calls, back to back. As we are walking back to the car, central gives us a new call, this one in the housing projects. Twice while on the call in the projects, I hear what sounds like change hitting the floor. Since very often things were thrown at us from the roofs or from windows, we assumed it was change. We hustle back to the car before we get hit with something, and a new job comes over the air, this one a unit in foot pursuit. All we are getting is a location ,no details.

Lights and sirens all the way, ( I'm driving ) jump out and run into a building vestibule behind the foot post who is right behind the suspect. "He may have a gun, I didnt see it but he bolted during my search" he tells me.

I reach down and my gun is gone. As is the holster with it. Just a leather flap on my belt.

Do I turn around and get my gun, which Im hoping is in my car and Im hoping the car is locked - and leave the foot unit alone?

F it. I draw my snubby from the ankle and continue the pursuit.

We got him, (he was hiding a large bundle of dope, not a gun) gave him a shampoo and rinse with my motorola portable, and hustle back to the car to find my gun, in holster, sitting in between the seats and just under the fold down armrests.

Those were not pennies from the rooftops, but the washers falling out of my swivel!
Mind you my gear was not old, this was within my first 3 years on the job.

Your incident with the swivel holster was not uncommon in my part of the world

 

[Bell Charter Oak Holsters]

I suppose I'm not surprised by some of the responses to this post. As I read through them, like many of you, the replies and opinions were predictable. As for perspective, I will just mention that your individual circumstances, occupation, individual location and a whole lot of specific individual stuff enter into the decision making process of what is reasonable. There is no rule for everyone, everyplace, in all things.


Two of my friends, known and endeared to me for well over 50 years. Both former lawmen. Between the pair, probably locked up ten or fifteen thousand mutts during their lengthy careers. In my jurisdiction, arresting 200 to 300 a year was not uncommon, if you were any good. Do the math.

My one late friend, retired to a farm, a non working farm, in a very rural part of the country. His children were all grown, just him and his Missus, lovely girl that she is. Statistically, it is doubtful that he would ever need a back up gun/2nd gun. He worked around the place, doing stuff that, well, if you own a home you know what I mean. Cutting wood for winter, mending fence, mowing hay, tending some cattle and so on. If he got in a jam, help or rescue really wasn't in the equation. There are bad people about you know, that's not a revelation, and I don't care where you live. Read a newspaper or watch the news on where ever you get news, (if you can drag your sorry *** away from your Iphone for 2 minutes). He carried 2 pieces, all day, everyday. No exception. Front door, 12ga. double, back door same. When your 70 something or 80 something, it ain't gonna' be no wrestlin' match at the door. Be forwarned miscreants. HA!

My other friend, who survived 5 violent gunfights over 25 years never carried a back up gun. Until he lost his service revolver in a scuffle with two young....gentleman. He was at the time a veteran cop in a major city, former US Marine Recon operator and an award winning Champion semi-pro boxer, which probably accounted for his remarkable survival against two monsters. He did not retire to a rural farm and remained within the city where he once worked. I never saw him without at least two weapons, until he passed away. At his wake, his daughter asked me to dispose of his weapons that were found on his person when he died. 1 Colt Police Positive and 1 S&W Chiefs Special....and a little itsy' bitsy, .22 Colt Junior auto.

Both of these GOOD MEN survived some of the worst times, WWII, Korea and Viet Nam into their 80's. Damn I miss them and they are sorely missed. Think they had a clue? You think on it. The title of this post was "Why or Why Not". Have a chew boys. God Bless.

Cheers;
Lefty

 

[caleb4387]

I open carry so when our cw9 comes in I'm thinking of experiment ing with it in a tuckable in my off side. I live in Ohio so it will be nice when I get a secondary to throw in the pocket instead of having to move my k frame back and forth

 

[Grayfox]

I've never felt the need for a back-up gun, but I have no problem with those who do. Its all cool with me.

However, reading this thread I couldn't help but recall the scene in the movie Unforgiven when the deputies are preparing for a fight.
"Why do you carry three guns?"
"Cause I don't want it to ever be said that I got killed for lack of shootin' back."

 

[Rpg]

I'm unaware of any verified instance of a civilian needing more than one firearm in a sd situation.

Most civilians have a hard time learning to handle one gun quickly and accurately ( reliably drawing and hitting a target in 1 1/2 seconds timed) without introducing the problems associated with learning to use a 'backup' effectively as well.

Carry as many guns as you want: just don't imagine more equals improved self defense. There is no evidence ( outside zombie fantasies ) that more than one handgun is useful.

 

[Muss Muggins]

If I go into a place that says, "No handguns allowed" I can have an empty holster to show everybody that I'm not armed and a pistol in my pocket.

Well, you can, but it causes a hullaballoo . . .

Jeffry Smith Visits St. Louis Zoo Wearing Empty Holster

 

[Bell Charter Oak Holsters]

I'm unaware of any verified instance of a civilian needing more than one firearm in a sd situation.

Most civilians have a hard time learning to handle one gun quickly and accurately ( reliably drawing and hitting a target in 1 1/2 seconds timed) without introducing the problems associated with learning to use a 'backup' effectively as well.

Carry as many guns as you want: just don't imagine more equals improved self defense. There is no evidence ( outside zombie fantasies ) that more than one handgun is useful.

I disagree with your opinion. Next time your down an alley and some *******....and his buddy or two, is firing at you, just sit back and relax while you take the time to reload as they advance toward your empty revolver or self loading pistol.

There are an awful lot of "civilians" (that seemed a condescending remark in it's context) who are better trained than most law enforcement personnel. The list of IDPA and IPSC Champions among others, attest to that fact. If you believe there "is no evidence that more than one handgun is useful, outside of zombie fantasies" you are mistaken and have little understanding of being in a situation outgunned. Why do you suppose we have shotguns and patrol rifles in our patrol cars? I realize that statistically non law enforcement/private citizens are less likely to be confronted with scenarios typically encountered by police. However, it may and does, happen. Read the news, I won't mention the horrible tragedies of the recent few years across America. So who wants to be the statistical exception? Yes I understand we have high capacity autos today, moreso than in days gone by. It does improve your survival chances, providing it is reliable but that is another entirely separate subject for discussion. I carry two everyday, no exception. Do as you wish, that's your opinion and choice which I sincerely respect as a personal preference.

By the way, anyone not a member of the Armed Forces, is a "civilian" too. Cop or not.

Cheers;
Lefty

 

[Smoke]

I'm not getting in the debate.

I've concluded based on my experience that 1 gun and 2 reloads is what works for me.

If I owned one of the little pocket .380s I might consider carrying a second gun but I wouldn't go out and buy one just for that purpose

 

[Kanewpadle]

I'm unaware of any verified instance of a civilian needing more than one firearm in a sd situation.

Most civilians have a hard time learning to handle one gun quickly and accurately ( reliably drawing and hitting a target in 1 1/2 seconds timed) without introducing the problems associated with learning to use a 'backup' effectively as well.

Carry as many guns as you want: just don't imagine more equals improved self defense. There is no evidence ( outside zombie fantasies ) that more than one handgun is useful.

He we go with the elitest attitude again. I thought we were done with that? What would you think if I said MOST cops don't know what their talking about in regards to concealed carry?

 

[Kanewpadle]

I'm not getting in the debate.

I've concluded based on my experience that 1 gun and 2 reloads is what works for me.

If I owned one of the little pocket .380s I might consider carrying a second gun but I wouldn't go out and buy one just for that purpose

Smokey, carrying two guns isn't for everyone. And I respect their decision.

Carrying two is a pain. BUT, it can be a huge advantage depending on how you do so.

My wife and I just got home from dinner. I was carrying a Glock 19 IWB strong side and a SP 101 in my jacket pocket on the opposite side. My wife likes to walk on my right which is my strong side. My left hand is in the pocket with the SP 101. I'm immediately armed and nobody knows.

At dinner I sat facing the door. Jacket off but next to me in the booth. Can't reach the SP 101 as easy but now the Glock is easily accessible.

Like I said, it's not for everyone. It's not about firepower or lack thereof. It's more about attitude and giving yourself more options. IMO more options means giving myself a better chance to prevail.

 

[Savvy]

As a LEO I patrolled with a backup.

Off duty, and now as a retiree I feel comfortable with one gun, but now with some added 'perks' to make me feel more secure.

Ive always spent time thinking about 'what if' scenarios. I dont see it as fantasizing, but as part of training and preparedness.
As such, my thought process has expanded from the usual possibilities of victimization to something unfortunately more in vogue - the multiple assailant terrorist/mass murder scenario - while at the mall or some other venue.
Its because of this that I have taken to feeling more comfortable with my higher capacity 9 than my 45, usually with a 2nd mag.
Its also why Ive attached a light/laser combo now. A strobe light to hopefully disorient a close attacker and buy me that split second, and a laser to among other things make possible perhaps a longer shot from cover at a scumbag toting a heavy weapon looking the other way - anything to help my older eyes in a high stress situation.

Ive found that this extra equipment makes me feel more secure and prepared than a second gun.

Still, things the way they are, it cannot hurt to have a lightweight backup in the pocket. We are so lucky to have the choices nowadays that we do, might as well support the hobby. Buy another gun today!

 

[walkin' trails]

^^^^^^^^^^^
Exactly!


I can't seem to recall, where in the past 100 years a non LEO was involved in a sustained firefight that required a reload, let alone multiple reloads and/or the use of a bug. In fact, the chance of a LEO having to do this is exceedingly small. Some of you folks must live in some pretty tough neighborhoods. Seems like many non LEOs carry more firepower than off duty LEOs, however if carrying every gun on your permit to go grocery shopping makes you happy, then go for it. I guess too many is better than none.

The one civilian incident that comes to mind was an LA area jewelry store owner who was the victim of several violent armed robberies. He went to multiple handguns stashed around the store after his first fight where his single stack pistol, I believe a P220 ran dry. He moved up to several higher capacity semis and ended up needing them in the nest go-around. This occurred back in there late 80s- early 90a.

 

[Faulkner]

A backup can also serve as a pass-off weapon. In my circle of family and friends, not many carry (trust me, I work on them to change this), but many do own and shoot. If we're out and about and something happens, it'd be nice to have some support.

That's an interesting concept. I'm thinking if they're not comfortable enough to carry I'm not sure I'd be willing to pass one of mine over to them.

 

[Motorsporting]

That's an interesting concept. I'm thinking if they're not comfortable enough to carry I'm not sure I'd be willing to pass one of mine over to them.

Clearly you'd have to know the person. I have absolute confidence in passing off a back-up to my brother or friend whom both took advanced pistol handling classes with me, but for whatever crazy reason, don't carry. Here's some conversation from two people more experienced than myself about passing off a back-up gun.

Passing Off a Backup Gun | Active Response Training

 

[Kanewpadle]

That's an interesting concept. I'm thinking if they're not comfortable enough to carry I'm not sure I'd be willing to pass one of mine over to them.

After thinking this over some I don't think I would either. It would be my luck that they would run the other way with my gun!

The other thing that comes to mind is tactics. I don't want to get shot but I certainly don't want to get shot by someone using one of my guns. I feel comfortable giving my second to my wife but she knows she is to stay where I tell her until all is clear or help arrives.

 

[Cal44]

I feel comfortable giving my second to my wife but she knows she is to stay where I tell her until all is clear or help arrives.

You're lucky. My wife rarely does what I tell her.

More likely she would want to call time out so we could have a 10 minute debate about what to do.

 

[wsr]

I'm unaware of any verified instance of a civilian needing more than one firearm in a sd situation.

Most civilians have a hard time learning to handle one gun quickly and accurately ( reliably drawing and hitting a target in 1 1/2 seconds timed) without introducing the problems associated with learning to use a 'backup' effectively as well.

Carry as many guns as you want: just don't imagine more equals improved self defense. There is no evidence ( outside zombie fantasies ) that more than one handgun is useful.

Not to be a cop basher but LEO's as a whole and big city cops in particular are hardly the ones I would hold up as paragons of good or safe gun handling...not saying there aren't plenty of extremely competent LEO's but it's not a group wide characteristic kinda like with "civilians"

Pocket carry without a holster
Mexican carry of striker gun
Use of cheap flimsy pouch type holsters...check the off duty holster selection at any police supply shop

All practices that seem to be prevalent with LEO's

 

[KYBHOTBS]

I never OC. My 12 year old son even shakes his head when he see someone OCing. First time he saw someone OCing he spotted him first and we followed him around for 2-3 minutes and he never knew we were there. We walked off a little ways and I said what do you think about OCing? His reply was Daddy I could have taken his gun at anytime. I CC 1 1911 Govt. 10mm and 2 extra mags. I have sever back problems and can not carry a billfold so I carry a small backpack. Inside is a full sized M&P 9mm with extra mag. Cold Steel Spike in my R front pocket along with a Tactical Pen and fixed to the left strap of the backpack is another Cold Steel Spike. This is my EDC. When I put my clothes on of the morning my 1911 in put on right then and doesn't come off until I take my clothes off. Clint Smith has a saying 2 is 1, 1 is none, 3 is better. And I have been CCing for the better part of 30 years.