cast boolits

[LoboGunLeather]

I on the other hand, go by alloy characteristics. For Black powder Cartridges I use 30:1 (97% lead: 3% Tin) or 20:1 (95% Lead:5% Tin, 9+/-BHN).

For Modern handgun and sub 1400 fps rifle I use Lyman #2 alloy (90% lead,5% tin, 5% antimony)

For faster velocity I use Wheel Weights (95.5% lead, .5% tin,4% antimony/8.9BHN air cooled 27.1 BHN tempered) or Linotype (86%lead,3%tin,11% antimony/21.8BHN) or Gas Checked bullets of a softer alloy.

For target velocity handguns (around 700 fps) you will want a 7 or so BHN.

For my 45-70 "Must Stop Everything" load I use a 400 grain tempered wheel Weight bullet (27.1BHN) with Gas Check at 2150 fps in a Marlin Guide Gun (will penetrate 1/4"+ steel also block walls!)

The other area of alloy choice is as cast diameter. Different alloys shrink differently as they cool some actually expand!

All this is covered in the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook #4 (5 is out now) along with loading data for 70 rifle and 23 handgun cartridges!

Ivan

Excellent! Moving right into the post-grad courses here.

 

[gwpercle]

When loading cast bullets ... use data developed for cast lead bullets ...
Do not use data for jacketed bullets (the powder charge) and substitute a cast bullet , even if the bullet weight is the same , the bullet hardness is a big difference .
Best source for learning and data , Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook 4th Edition.
Order one and study the first 18 chapters ...Information that is invaluable . After that comes Rifle Loading Data then Handgun Loading Data and after that more useful information ...
I started casting in 1967 with a Lyman Cast Bullet Manual , Lyman Basic Casting Kit and a 1-cavity Lyman mould and learned everything from " The Lyman Book" ...get one and study it from cover to cover .
Gary

 

[GypsmJim]

I on the other hand, go by alloy characteristics. For Black powder Cartridges I use 30:1 (97% lead: 3% Tin) or 20:1 (95% Lead:5% Tin, 9+/-BHN).

For Modern handgun and sub 1400 fps rifle I use Lyman #2 alloy (90% lead,5% tin, 5% antimony)

For faster velocity I use Wheel Weights (95.5% lead, .5% tin,4% antimony/8.9BHN air cooled 27.1 BHN tempered) or Linotype (86%lead,3%tin,11% antimony/21.8BHN) or Gas Checked bullets of a softer alloy.

For target velocity handguns (around 700 fps) you will want a 7 or so BHN.

For my 45-70 "Must Stop Everything" load I use a 400 grain tempered wheel Weight bullet (27.1BHN) with Gas Check at 2150 fps in a Marlin Guide Gun (will penetrate 1/4"+ steel also block walls!)

The other area of alloy choice is as cast diameter. Different alloys shrink differently as they cool some actually expand!

All this is covered in the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook #4 (5 is out now) along with loading data for 70 rifle and 23 handgun cartridges!

Ivan

I started reloading in 1971. As a poor college kid I needed to be frugal if I wanted to shoot much. I started casting boolits in 1975 after I got married and bought a house, just because it looked like fun and I now had a nice basement to work in.

At the time my Dad was a printer, and I had an endless supply of linotype, plus a friend owned a garage, which gave me an endless supply of wheel weights.

Early on I tailored my lead formulas just like detailed above. Eventually, Dad and my friend retired, thus my lead supply dried up. About 1998 I switched to using 100% wheel weights because that was my most economical source of lead.

I cast several different rifle boolits (all gas checked) and a half dozen handgun varieties. I target shoot at an indoor club range, and plink a bit outdoors. I'm not into league shooting any more. I'm sure boolit composition matters, but truthfully my one-size-fits-all formula works for me. With my bifocals I can't see the target any more anyways...

About 10 years ago my state outlawed lead WWs in favor of zinc. At that time I started buying massive quantities wherever I could find them, including EBay. By my calculations my stockpile will last me until I'm 85.

 

[STORMINORMAN]

Well, I'll throw in a question here...

Is an 18 BHN coated 200gr bullet too "hard" for 45 Colt (Regular, not HIGH TEST=Ruger ONLY) use?

Cheers!

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

Well, I'll throw in a question here...

Is an 18 BHN coated 200gr bullet too "hard" for 45 Colt (Regular, not HIGH TEST=Ruger ONLY) use?

Cheers!

It depends on two things: Does it shoot accurately in your gun(s)? and Do you need more expansion than a thumb sized hole?

If the answers are first Yes and then No, you are good to go!

Ivan

 

[nbedford]

There is an excellent new internet book out there now: "From Ingot to Target, a cast bullet guide for handgunners". Free and in PDF format. Fairly long, but also very extensive. I noticed it on Castboolits and downloaded it. Copyrighted, but you can download it for your own use.
From Ingot to Target: A Cast Bullet Guide For Handgunners, Table of Contents - Fryxell/Applegate

It is a "A joint effort by Glen E. Fryxell and Robert L. Applegate". A foreword by John Taffin. I have not been casting very long, and it has been a source of very good information for me.

 

[oddshooter]

Hey OP,

Although you may not be casting right now; the information you are learning about boolits is required for optimal handloading.

Trying to size a boolit correctly to a single gun is only done after slugging the barrel and pin gauging the cylinders for their diameter. Or you can always just shoot it and look for problems and successes.

Handloading is an incredibly great hobby all by itself. I spend 5 to 1 of my time at the loading bench versus the firing line. Covid 19 quarantines and winter cold makes handloading my best stress reliever out there.

I have two options you should pursue:

I strongly suggest finding a mentor/tutor to get you started. You can save months of frustration and errors. I guarantee you their are folks in your area who would do so with pleasure.

Second is picking one caliber to start. Learn the stuff you're on now for one caliber before moving on. You really don't need the complexity and expense until you get a little more seasoned.

How do you plan on recording your data?

Enjoy and stay safe,
Prescut

 

[comfortsource]

I cannot thank you all enough regarding the welcoming advice. Yes I am not casting at the moment but I am a big proponent of research before making big commitments.

I’m acquiring the suggested resources for reading and will definitely look for a local person to assist also.

Merry Christmas all y’all,

J

 

[GypsmJim]

Well, I'll throw in a question here...

Is an 18 BHN coated 200gr bullet too "hard" for 45 Colt (Regular, not HIGH TEST=Ruger ONLY) use?

Cheers!

That's basically between Lyman #2 and straight Linotype.

I dunno the answer but I can say that in my experience Linotype is too hard, while #2 is OK. If it were me I would want them to be softer than 18.

OTOH, I have no experience with coated boolits, so once again I dunno.

So, here is MY question of the day....
Do coated bullets obturate like regular lubed bullets?

 

[STORMINORMAN]

It depends on two things: Does it shoot accurately in your gun(s)? and Do you need more expansion than a thumb sized hole?

If the answers are first Yes and then No, you are good to go!

Ivan

Haven't loaded any up, yet...

I appreciate the response: was more concerned about leading at, say 850-900 fps using that hard of a bullet. The "Cowboy Action" boolits are typically considerably softer, and that's not exactly my bag: more target & SD (possibly?) than a hunting scenerio...

Am I going too high velocity wise?

Cheers!

 

[glenwolde]

You can also get some bullets, load them, and see how they work. Don't overthink it.

I've loaded many thousands of commercially cast bullets in .38 Special, .41 Magnum, and .45 ACP all at mid-range velocities and for the most part there were very few problems.

 

[noylj]

The whole idea of "optimum" alloy is ridiculous. What you calculate is the maximum hardness that will still allow the bullet to "swell up" under pressure and help seal the bore. Thus, the "optimum" alloy is really the hardest alloy that will have any chance of sealing the bore.
Better to stick with softer alloys and make sure the bullet diameter is large enough to seal the bore. I have had a lot more leading with hard (18-22 BHN) bullets than with my "soft" 11-14 BHN bullets. After 1500-1700 fps, I start using gas checks, but the same alloy.

 

[Engineer1911]

The Unspoken Subject: Economics

You may have noticed that you are not saving any money reloading. You will save even less when you are a bullet caster. The problems are easy to understand. For simplicity let us assume a $100 monthly budget for ammo and the time is January 2020:

#1] You start shooting more because the cost of ammo drops significantly when you reload. That first box of reloaded ammo cost about $300 after buying powder, primers, dies, press, scale, dial caliper, and a case trimmer thingey from Lee.

#2] Because you are shooting more cheap ammo, you start hanging out at gun shows where bulk powder is $100 for 5# instead of $25 for 1#. A thousand primers are $28 instead of $3.50 for 100. 500 cast bullets are only $48 instead of $17 for 100 jacketed.

#3] Now you want to start casting your own lead bullets. Moulds, sizer / luber, melting pot, lead, more lead, more lube, and savings are apparent but you sure are buying a lot of expensive stuff. Much more than that original $100 monthly ammo budget. Where do you keep all this wonderful stuff? It isn't in the kitchen cupboard -- you didn't check with the wife first did you?

#4] More shooting means more productive equipment; progressive press, 6 cavity moulds, better case prep equipment. Now you want another gun, another caliber, a different barrel length.

YOU HAVE FALLEN DOWN THE SLIPPERY SLOPE ! How did I ever go shooting with a single gun, pack of targets, staple gun, and target frame?

I probably have a $100,000 dollar inventory of shooting, reloading, and casting stuff I just had to have and a wife that likes to shoot. Ignoring any retirement accounts, employer savings plans or stock investments, my savings from reloading and casting bullets has never exceeded about $500 judging by the savings account balances for the past 45 years. Very few people admit to something like this.

 

[lrrifleman]

@OP,

You are getting a wealth of great, accurate advice here. Allow me to add my two cents.

I started casting around 2001, right after my first divorce, and I purchased virtually all of the requisite bells and whistles. Ninety-nine percent of the bullets that I cast came from wheel weights and were quench cast (dropped from the mold into a bucket of water), which kinda "flash hardened" the bullets.

Honestly, if I were going to start casting today, I wouldn't do it the way most of us started with a lubri-sizer. The last I looked, a Lyman lubri-sizer goes for at least two hundred dollars. For each bullet style (and in many cases, caliber) you need a unique top punch (about $20). Additionally, for each caliber that you cast, you need a separate and unique sizing die (about $30). Presume that you are casting only 1 bullet (say a 38 148 gr wadcutter), your initial lubri-sizer expense is at least $250. That is a hefty investment in today's economy.

For a new caster, I would suggest that they cast with the intent of powder coating their bullets. You would need a dedicated toaster oven (never to be used for food) that you could purchase new for about $25. A bag of quality powder will run about $20 and coat between 1500-2000 bullets, if not more. You can get (during normal times) a Lee bullet sizer kit for about $25. Your initial start up cost is now about $70 versus $250+.

NOTE: if you cast with the intention of powder coating, you CAN'T quench cast your bullets!

DOUBLE NOTE: if you are casting bullets for use in a Glock, you need to powder coat, since the type of rifling used in Glocks IS NOT lead bullet friendly.

 

[glenwolde]

@OP,

You are getting a wealth of great, accurate advice here. Allow me to add my two cents.

I started casting around 2001, right after my first divorce, and I purchased virtually all of the requisite bells and whistles. Ninety-nine percent of the bullets that I cast came from wheel weights and were quench cast (dropped from the mold into a bucket of water), which kinda "flash hardened" the bullets.

Honestly, if I were going to start casting today, I wouldn't do it the way most of us started with a lubri-sizer. The last I looked, a Lyman lubri-sizer goes for at least two hundred dollars. For each bullet style (and in many cases, caliber) you need a unique top punch (about $20). Additionally, for each caliber that you cast, you need a separate and unique sizing die (about $30). Presume that you are casting only 1 bullet (say a 38 148 gr wadcutter), your initial lubri-sizer expense is at least $250. That is a hefty investment in today's economy.

Pan lubing is also a viable option. Simple, inexpensive, reasonably fast. There's a guy on eBay selling a newer version of the "Kake Kutter". He calls it "Bob's Bullet Lube Kit".

Now that I went looking for it there's another guy selling a different one.

 

[comfortsource]

Good morning all, I sure am thankful for a great thread here!

I do not want to "go down a rabbit hole" too far as each of y'alls time is valuable and important, BUT......

powder coating obviously has it's advantages, as listed above....but can someone dive into what/where is this process REQUIRED for proper bullet operation?

powder coat everything?

or only powder coat bullets that will be supersonic?

just curious on this subject...(until my books arrive )

J

 

[max503]

I was thinking the source location might be East Tennessee but Northern Georgia will do!

Yes! Same general area if you think about it. I was not that far from Chattanooga.

But back to the OP. Go out and get some lead store-bought bullets for a revolver and load those just for the experience. Start from there.

 

[AlHunt]

Good morning all, I sure am thankful for a great thread here!

I do not want to "go down a rabbit hole" too far as each of y'alls time is valuable and important, BUT......

powder coating obviously has it's advantages, as listed above....but can someone dive into what/where is this process REQUIRED for proper bullet operation?

powder coat everything?

or only powder coat bullets that will be supersonic?

just curious on this subject...(until my books arrive )

J

Powder coat everything. If it moves, powder coat it. If it doesn't move, powder coat it. I recently coated 2100+ 9mm in an afternoon. My effort was about 5 minutes per batch so I had about 45 minutes of actual work involved. I'll run them through the $20 Lee sizer as I use them.

That rabbit hole starts over on the "Cast Boolit" forum.

ETA: Here's Elvis Ammo demonstrating the simplicity of powder coating:
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRVXic3-ztE[/ame]

ETA again: Actually, this is closer to my madcap method:

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YC56iXemss[/ame]

You can complicate it, sometimes for good reason (precision rifle projectiles) but for pistol bullets...

I recommend powder from Smoke4320 over on the Cast Boolit forum. I've found it very forgiving of my imprecise method.

Yes, in fact I have been looking for an excuse to post the family photo below. About 6,000 bullets I've made in the last month or so.

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

I appreciate the response: was more concerned about leading at, say 850-900 fps using that hard of a bullet. The "Cowboy Action" boolits are typically considerably softer, and that's not exactly my bag: more target & SD (possibly?) than a hunting scenerio...

Cheers!

One of the nice things about 45 caliber bullets, their diameter starts where smaller bullets expand to! In the days of Round Nose pure lead bullets. it wasn't considered a serious handgun, if the caliber didn't start with a 4!

Coated bullets are very good about not leading below 1600 to 1800 fps. but at less than 900fps, you won't have leading from any of the alloys on plane/flat base bullets. (There is still the whole issue about throat size and groove diameter relationship, but that is far less common than complained about!)

A fad that started in the late 80's/early 90's is Bevel Base Bullets. They are cast bullets that have very tiny boat tails. Their ONLY benefit is you don't bell the case mouth during reloading. Years ago Lyman proved they are less accurate under their normal test conditions, and tend to lead up barrels! (I think Lyman was hoping they were better than flat base bullets, so they could sell all new molds to everyone!) These are usually seen with a "Truncated Cone" (meaning flat tip and taper, but no shoulder like a SWC). They were intended to be a "Fits All" bullet for autos and revolvers, but are not! You still see these for many commercial casters, Why? They are easier to make, and they already have the mold(s) and many people like not belling the brass!

Ivan

 

[lrrifleman]

... powder coating obviously has it's advantages, as listed above....but can someone dive into what/where is this process REQUIRED for proper bullet operation?

powder coat everything?

or only powder coat bullets that will be supersonic?

just curious on this subject...(until my books arrive )

J

Powder coating is not required for proper bullet operation. I see it as an alternative to sizing and lubricating the bullet with a wax-based compound. Powder coating eliminates the lubricant, which burns when the cartridge is fired and produces smoke.

You can powder coat virtually any bullet, but I have seen recommendations to not push a powder coated bullet over 1300 fps.

You don't have to limit your use of powder coated bullets to supersonic loads. Powder coating basically encapsulates the lead bullet, so it reduces the emission of lead.

Personally, I will be powder coating any bullets that will be fired in a Glock, along with any bullet cast from a Lee mold that I can't locate a top punch for. At this point in time, that means that I will be powder coating: 9mm 125gr RN, 40 cal 175gr TC, and 45 cal 230gr TC. Everything else that I cast will be processed through my lubri-sizer.

A point to keep in mind, you haven't cast a single bullet yet, so you don't really know if casting is something that you will want to pursue! From that perspective, why invest close to $400 or $500 in casting equipment, that you may dump at a loss should you decide that casting isn't for you? As you may have noticed, prices on popular auction sites have mushroomed if the item has anything to do with guns, shooting, or reloading.