Cast Bullets coated or lubed?

[Waldo]

Every few years, I buy a bunch of cast bullets . I generally order 10,000 or more in various calibers. I find that by ordering a large quantity I get a discount. That keeps me shooting and reloading for a while. It is now time to order more. I am finding that some suppliers are now offering bullets with a polymer or hi-tek coating. I have never used this and am curious if I should try it. I am reluctant to commit to a large quantity of something I haven't tried. I have developed loads for each of my pistol calibers that seem to work in a variety of guns. So I have no wish to experiment. I also shoot outdoors, so smoke is not an issue. Does anyone have any experience or thoughts on this?

 

[pistolpete10]

Try small quantities first. I ordered some Hi Tech coated 9mm bullets and the shape is different from the plated bullets I've been using, have to seat deeper. They are 9mm. I haven't tried any in 45 or 38. They also have the bullet with the lube groove in it that works fine. I wouldn't expect them to be as accurate as cast in the 45 or 38 but for general use OK.

 

[Autonomous]

You will find quite a few coated bullet fans.
They shoot like and use the same load data as lubed bullets.
They are clean. Your dies stay clean. Unless there is some problem the barrel bore does not get leaded.
You do have to make sure the cases get enough flare so the coating does not get skived off when loading them. Easy enough to do though.

 

[Rule3]

Get coated! Regular lube is so yesterdayCoated is much cleaner, no smoke, no lead exposure etc etc.


But they must be from someone that knows what they are doing. Missouri Bullets, Acme Bullets There are others.

 

[gwpercle]

The coating will add some extra size to a bullets other area's , ogive area , shoulder diameter , etc... where the bullet doesn't get sized down . Some adjustments might be required to get rounds to chamber , especially for auto-loaders ... other than that they should do just fine .
I still cast and lube mine the old school way because I'm so Yesterday it hurts and set in my Yesterday ways . My Lube/sizer was paid for in 1967 and I have a big stash of Lithi-Bee bullet Lube .
You might want to try a small lot before you go all in and then discover you don't care for coated .
Another thing I enjoy is .... Gun Smoke !
Gary

 

[GypsmJim]

I bought a small box of 158 gr SWC as a trial for a .38 spl. My immediate goal was also to evaluate them to see if I wanted to buy a toaster oven and a supply of powder coating. As usual, I moved too quickly, and bought some 9mm and .41 and .45.

They smell nice. I don't have to clean my dies. Cleaner loading process. Butttt....

In a direct comparison with several semis and revolvers, my home cast / liquid alox tumble lubed boolits outperformed all of the Hi-tek bullets in accuracy and consistency. In each case, the weight and shapes were quite similar.

I will use them up, but future casting will be done with tumble lube. Cleaning the die isn't really that hard.

 

[Dennis2149]

I've been using Missouri Hi-Tek coated bullets in 38/357, 41 mag and 44 mags exclusively. Good accuracy and no leading. The right propellent, crimp and primers with testing off the bench will answer your question. I'm able to buy a box of #500 at one time. I think I'd need a forklift for #10,000.

 

[1sailor]

I have loaded and fired literally thousands of coated bullets in 9mm, 357/38, 40S&W, 45acp, and 30-30. The only issue I have ever encountered is that the bullets feel a little slippery when you pick them up and sometimes little bullets like 9mm will slip out of my fingers. You can drive them faster, the don't smoke nearly as much and they don't lead the bore. When fired they do smell to me like ozone from an electrical short. Below is a pic I took of an S&S coated bullet that I pounded flat with a hammer. Zero loss of coating.

 

[gwpercle]

I bought a small box of 158 gr SWC as a trial for a .38 spl. My immediate goal was also to evaluate them to see if I wanted to buy a toaster oven and a supply of powder coating. As usual, I moved too quickly, and bought some 9mm and .41 and .45.

They smell nice. I don't have to clean my dies. Cleaner loading process. Butttt....

In a direct comparison with several semis and revolvers, my home cast / liquid alox tumble lubed boolits outperformed all of the Hi-tek bullets in accuracy and consistency. In each case, the weight and shapes were quite similar.

I will use them up, but future casting will be done with tumble lube. Cleaning the die isn't really that hard.

There always seems to be a ... Butttt

My Daddy always said ... "If it ain't broke don't fix it !"

So if you have a method that works for you ... don't be so all fired quick to change to something else .

I realize the OP is buying coated bullets but the fact is lube/sizing is faster and easier for me ... one stroke of my Lyman 450 produces a bullet that is sized , lubed and gas checked crimped on (if needed) ready to load and shoot . Powder coating is a much more envolved and longer process .
Gary

 

[GypsmJim]

Every one always about the elephant in the room.....LEADING. Of course coated bullets are a potential answer, but if you watch your p's and q's leading is never an issue.

Proper lube
Proper size
Proper lead hardness
Proper velocity

Eons ago when I started reloading .38 spl with (soft) store bought Speer wadcutters I could not keep the barrel clean. Cast my own since 1975 and never had a problem since.

 

[.38SuperMan]

I’ve used many thousands of coated bullets and the only way I’d go back to conventional lube is if I couldn’t get coated or plated. Costed are so much cleaner. I use Accurate powders now, #2 and N100NF, that are much cleaner than Hogdon powders like 231 and HS-6. After shooting a couple hundred rounds now my gun ia breeze to clean. I find in 38 and 45 Accurate #2 and coated bullets are probably 80% cleaner than lubed with 231.

I’ve used several brands and never seen any difference in accuracy vs lubed lead. I generally use Summers, a small caster in Mississippi, Acme and Missouri and found no difference other than price.

 

[1sailor]

One other nice thing about coated bullets. You never get a shipment of bullets where half the lube is laying in chunks in the bottom of the shipping box.

 

[rockquarry]

I've yet to see a need for coated, painted, or plated bullets for any handgun use; conventionally lubed cast bullets have worked fine. My biggest concern is accuracy. Cast bullets won't lead bores if they fit and are of the proper alloy for the load. As for smudged fingertips - they are easy to clean.

But trying coated, painted, or plated bullets is certainly worth the effort if you are so inclined. I'd compare the accuracy at 25 yards from a good benchrest and go with what shoots best. Good luck-

 

[cracker57]

I have developed loads for each of my pistol calibers that seem to work in a variety of guns. So I have no wish to experiment. I also shoot outdoors, so smoke is not an issue. Does anyone have any experience or thoughts on this?

its been said already if it ain't broke don't fix it. if you don't want to experiment, keep doing what you do.

 

[venomballistics]

Your couple of years are probably closer to a couple of decades if you're just coming up for air to see them.
Coatings are quite solidly proven at this point.
They're significant less picky than their traditional counterparts.

 

[6string]

The bottom line, to me, is accuracy.
If I was too lazy to clean my guns, maybe it would be different.

It's always interesting to see the accolades for coated bullets, usually stating "no difference in accuracy".
NOBODY, making these claims offers any verifiable evidence, or even basic info like shooting distance, to back up their claims.

If you're shooting 25 yds or less, who cares? Any decent load will shoot within reason. Things get interesting at the 50 yd line and beyond.
What is the test procedure?
At the least, it should include a Ransom Rest. If you're loading for a semiauto, it's better yet if you use a barrel fixture, like a Cominolli Device, to test barrel alone. Then, repeat the test in a Ransom Rest to verify the build quality of the gun itself.
The goal? 5 to 10 shot groups @50 yds that hold the X-ring on the NRA precision Bullseye target, which is approx. 1.6".
I’ve used this procedure myself about 20 yrs ago, when I had access to this equipment, owned by the SC Nat’l Guard pistol team.
As GypsmJim points out, there are fundamentals to getting the most out of traditional lubed cast bullets. Follow them! More work? Yes, but accuracy is always in the details.

Objective tests show that in A/B comparisons, with human error removed, coated bullets shoot about 75% larger groups at the 50 yard line than properly loaded lubed cast bullets.
You can't just paint on a layer of indeterminate thickness and hardness onto a cast bullet and expect magic, at least where accuracy is concerned.
This has been shown, over and over again, mostly by the gunsmiths building Bullseye-level competition pistols, where customers pay the extra thousands of dollars and expect test target data to back up the accuracy specifications that the gunsmiths claim to deliver.
That being said, a lot of guys will choose a jacketed bullet load for the slow-fire 50 yd line, then switch to lead (coated or traditional lubed) for the short line (25 yds) rapid & timed stages.

If you're just shooting for fun at "defense" distances, maybe none of this matters.

Just talking here on the forum is unlikely to settle anything further. The camps are divided and people have made up their minds.
Or, maybe not?

1) From John Giles. The accuracy specs used a .38 cast wadcutter from a Hensley & Gibbs mold.
2 & 3): Actual machine rest results, by gunsmith John Giles. These are at 50 yds.
The ammo was loaded for Giles by Gene Wilson, on a Star Universal press, using bullets from H&G molds.
Bullet lube is the old NRA 50/50 alox/beeswax formula.

Anybody have 50 yd targets for their coated bullets?
Maybe somebody has made some progress??

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

Get coated! Regular lube is so yesterdayCoated is much cleaner, no smoke, no lead exposure etc etc.


But they must be from someone that knows what they are doing. Missouri Bullets, Acme Bullets There are others.

Guess I'm "yesterday" cuz I still convention lube bullets for 14 different calibers that I cast and pour my own lead shot in 7 1/2--8--9 diameters....Only been at it since 1972.......May have try those coated bullet someday.

 

[Forrest r]

T. I wouldn't expect them to be as accurate as cast in the 45 or 38 but for general use OK.

??????????

 

[Model19man]

Been using powder coated and Hi-Tek coated bullets for some time. They seem to be no different than lubed bullets of the same mold but my fingers stay cleaner. No drawbacks that I can see.

 

[Forrest r]

The bottom line, to me, is accuracy.
If I was too lazy to clean my guns, maybe it would be different.

It's always interesting to see the accolades for coated bullets, usually stating "no difference in accuracy".
NOBODY, making these claims offers any verifiable evidence, or even basic info like shooting distance, to back up their claims.

If you're shooting 25 yds or less, who cares? Any decent load will shoot within reason. Things get interesting at the 50 yd line and beyond.
What is the test procedure?
At the least, it should include a Ransom Rest. If you're loading for a semiauto, it's better yet if you use a barrel fixture, like a Cominolli Device, to test barrel alone. Then, repeat the test in a Ransom Rest to verify the build quality of the gun itself.
The goal? 5 to 10 shot groups @50 yds that hold the X-ring on the NRA precision Bullseye target, which is approx. 1.6".
I’ve used this procedure myself about 20 yrs ago, when I had access to this equipment, owned by the SC Nat’l Guard pistol team.
As GypsmJim points out, there are fundamentals to getting the most out of traditional lubed cast bullets. Follow them! More work? Yes, but accuracy is always in the details.

Objective tests show that in A/B comparisons, with human error removed, coated bullets shoot about 75% larger groups at the 50 yard line than properly loaded lubed cast bullets.
You can't just paint on a layer of indeterminate thickness and hardness onto a cast bullet and expect magic, at least where accuracy is concerned.
This has been shown, over and over again, mostly by the gunsmiths building Bullseye-level competition pistols, where customers pay the extra thousands of dollars and expect test target data to back up the accuracy specifications that the gunsmiths claim to deliver.
That being said, a lot of guys will choose a jacketed bullet load for the slow-fire 50 yd line, then switch to lead (coated or traditional lubed) for the short line (25 yds) rapid & timed stages.

If you're just shooting for fun at "defense" distances, maybe none of this matters.

Just talking here on the forum is unlikely to settle anything further. The camps are divided and people have made up their minds.
Or, maybe not?

1) From John Giles. The accuracy specs used a .38 cast wadcutter from a Hensley & Gibbs mold.
2 & 3): Actual machine rest results, by gunsmith John Giles. These are at 50 yds.
The ammo was loaded for Giles by Gene Wilson, on a Star Universal press, using bullets from H&G molds.
Bullet lube is the old NRA 50/50 alox/beeswax formula.

Anybody have 50 yd targets for their coated bullets?
Maybe somebody has made some progress??

Looks like you guys need to do more work with your load development. Got all the fancy tools/toys & high $$$$ custom guns. And that's all you come up with???

Bought a $500 beater 629 at a gunshow years ago to use as a truck gun. When it isn't bouncing around in the toolbox in the back of the truck it gets a steady diet of blammo ammo.

1 of it's favorite loads:
a cast (8/9bhn) 250gr fn hp with 11.5grs of unique (.2gr under max/1250fps) 6-shot group @ 50yds

No fancy rest, nothing more than a rolled up towel on a card board box.

Same beater 629 playing around at a measly 25yds. Did head-to-head testing with 7 different cast bullets and 5 different powders.

Traditionally cast/lubed bullets vs cast coated bullets. I cast all the bullets and sized them all in the same 450 sizer. The powders were ladder tested up to +/- 25,000psi loads.

Same beater revolver same box/towel same targets/reloading equipment/etc.

Was looking for loads that would do 1 1/2" or less @ 25yds 6-shot groups. Hense blammo ammo, anyway when the smoke cleared I had 13 loads/targets with the coated bullets that held 1 1/2" or less and 3 loads with the traditionally cast/lubed bullets.

13 vs 3 is huge

Playing around with a 686 @ 50yds using mixed range brass and 2 loads that are 1100fps+/357mag loads.

No there no 1 1/2" groups but when I switch to new or 1x starline bass the groups shrink to the 1 1/2" mark.

A little head to head testing @ 50yds using cast bullets in a 308w.

10-shot group using traditional cast/lubed bullets with a gas check installed.

Same cast bullet this time coated with pc and no gas check installed.

Yup the test targets were shot on different days

Playing around with a $700 1911 chambered in 9mm. Using a super lite load and a #10 recoil spring with a cast bullet designed in 1900 to be used in a 38long colt.

10-shot group @ 50yds my high $$$$ box/towel rest.

Not sure if the fliers were from the 1911 being under sprung or the bullets bases being swaged down/bullet too long for the 9mm cases. That cast hb fn next to a 125gr fn hp that I normally use/shoot in that 1911/9mm.

Anyway, apparently you need a box, towel & a cheap firearm to use coated bullets @ 50yds

Actually I'm getting older and just don't shoot much past 25yds with pistols/revolvers anymore.