Cast Bullets coated or lubed?
- Thread starter Waldo
- Start date
Please, allow me to add my two cents!
Back around 2000, when I started casting, I was shooting a couple S&W revolvers and a Springfield Armory Trophy Match, so lubed cast bullets were acceptable. I bought the lubrisizer, the H&I dies, and I was good to go. In 2007, my accident took me out of the game for about 6 years. Precision bullseye matches started to decline, but Glock matches were more available.
I worked my club's GSSF match, and was able to borrow a pistol for the match. Even though I don't like the grip angle, I shot it well. That same year, I shot the first Adaptive Defensive Shooting Summit match with my 439, and found myself at a disadvantage with the first shot DA out of the leather. I then picked up a Glock along with the P320 that I won. And as we all know, Glock doesn't recommend lead bullets.
On fixed income, I picked up everything that I needed to PC my own cast bullets, cost was less than $100, a significant difference compared to acquiring the lubrisizer and accessories. Shooting the Glocks and Sigs at under 25 yards doesn't require the bullseye accuracy for NRA Precision Pistol, so that is not an issue.
For me, I find that I can shoot more for less outlay using my PC bullets in my SIG and Glocks, with satisfying accuracy. As far as I'm concerned, if I get 2" groups at 15 yards on my paper plate targets, I can be competitive in GSSF, ShootSig, and USPSA matches, as well as the ADSS event at the Sig Academy! For bullseye at ranges and matches that allow it, I will use my lubed, cast bullets.
There is a time and place where PC bullets can shine!
Back around 2000, when I started casting, I was shooting a couple S&W revolvers and a Springfield Armory Trophy Match, so lubed cast bullets were acceptable. I bought the lubrisizer, the H&I dies, and I was good to go. In 2007, my accident took me out of the game for about 6 years. Precision bullseye matches started to decline, but Glock matches were more available.
I worked my club's GSSF match, and was able to borrow a pistol for the match. Even though I don't like the grip angle, I shot it well. That same year, I shot the first Adaptive Defensive Shooting Summit match with my 439, and found myself at a disadvantage with the first shot DA out of the leather. I then picked up a Glock along with the P320 that I won. And as we all know, Glock doesn't recommend lead bullets.
On fixed income, I picked up everything that I needed to PC my own cast bullets, cost was less than $100, a significant difference compared to acquiring the lubrisizer and accessories. Shooting the Glocks and Sigs at under 25 yards doesn't require the bullseye accuracy for NRA Precision Pistol, so that is not an issue.
For me, I find that I can shoot more for less outlay using my PC bullets in my SIG and Glocks, with satisfying accuracy. As far as I'm concerned, if I get 2" groups at 15 yards on my paper plate targets, I can be competitive in GSSF, ShootSig, and USPSA matches, as well as the ADSS event at the Sig Academy! For bullseye at ranges and matches that allow it, I will use my lubed, cast bullets.
There is a time and place where PC bullets can shine!
Autonomous
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My experience with Glock is vaguely similar.
I dislike the grip angle but shoot them about as good as anything else.
Suspect it is because of the, to me, unnatural grip angle I try harder.
I’ve run plenty of lubed lead bullets in all kinds of pistols as well as revolvers with very good accuracy & minimal - no barrel leading if you slug the barrels & size properly.
That being said, as soon as they came out with Hi-Tek coated I was pretty much done with lubed lead, unless I couldn’t find the bullet style/weight I wanted. Similar accuracy, but no mess & no exposed lead. Loading is nearly the same to lubed with a bit of extra care to not shave the coating.
That being said, as soon as they came out with Hi-Tek coated I was pretty much done with lubed lead, unless I couldn’t find the bullet style/weight I wanted. Similar accuracy, but no mess & no exposed lead. Loading is nearly the same to lubed with a bit of extra care to not shave the coating.
venomballistics
Member
It's like UK English vs US English.
You're close enough to function rather well but not quite everything is the same.
In my case, I've fully embraced PC, so I put in the work to optimize my loads around it.
You sound like a seasoned visitor to "my side of the pond"
venomballistics
Member
The palmetto State armory dagger is a Glock Gen 3 clone. It is offered in the S (G17) compact (G19 with 17 slide) and micro (G 43 IIRC)
They are inexpensive, about 350 complete, have a better grip angle and palm swell than the parent pistols.
They are available frame only as well. Normally $100, current on sale for 49 ... Might be a good home for your Glock slide assemblies
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I can see where you are going. The problem is not with the PSA Dagger, but the GSSF rules. Unless you are shooting Unlimited, the pistol must be stock Glock. If you are shooting in the Unlimited class, the frame MUST be manufactured by Glock. The catch is, if you are shooting in a GSSF match, you must be a member of GSSF. The GSSF benefit is that you can purchase a Glock from a Glock Blue Label dealer. Depending on the Generation, you can get a G17, G19, or G26 (or the 40 S&W equivalent) for 410-425. The added benefit is that at GSSF matches, they always have an armorer on-site that can repair and upgrade your pistol at no cost.
For anyone that is looking to shoot stationary IDPA/USPSA matches, Glock can be the solution through the GSSF program. Sig is starting to follow suit with the ShootSig program. Hopefully, S&W will see the benefit and develop their own version of GSSF and ShootSig! (HINT: these programs allow the physically challenged shooters to shoot against unchallenged shooters on a level playing field!)
When I started out I had a friend who would let me use
his Lyman 450 if I bought the wax rings from the lumber
yard. He mixed the lube. I made bullets that shot well out
of my model 66.
I moved away and started tumble lubing and using Lee
sizers. I made bullets that shot well out of my model 66
and the 1911's.
About 8 years ago I found out about powder coating and
once I started doing it you'd have to whip my butt with a
rattlesnake to get me to go back to the mess my original 2
types of lubricating require to make shootable bullets .
I can shoot a lot more between cleaning and fouling is
about non existant. AND I find using the same loading I
get about a 35 to 50 foot per second increase in velocity
from my handguns.
I'm sold on it primarily because I'm lazy and for me it
works as well and I have to clean my guns a lot less.
The velocity increase is an additional bonus.
his Lyman 450 if I bought the wax rings from the lumber
yard. He mixed the lube. I made bullets that shot well out
of my model 66.
I moved away and started tumble lubing and using Lee
sizers. I made bullets that shot well out of my model 66
and the 1911's.
About 8 years ago I found out about powder coating and
once I started doing it you'd have to whip my butt with a
rattlesnake to get me to go back to the mess my original 2
types of lubricating require to make shootable bullets .
I can shoot a lot more between cleaning and fouling is
about non existant. AND I find using the same loading I
get about a 35 to 50 foot per second increase in velocity
from my handguns.
I'm sold on it primarily because I'm lazy and for me it
works as well and I have to clean my guns a lot less.
The velocity increase is an additional bonus.
venomballistics
Member
would that snake be alive or animation challenged?
venomballistics
Member
it's certainly out in terms of these specific competitions.
That's not the only home they have.
For as much as we might hate the Glock, it runs.
Some of the home brewed torture tests of Glocks prove them to be stuff of legend in terms of reliability.
Most everything else about them might make us want to bathe but we have to recognize that relentless function.
At least for some, PSA might have made it a good bit less repulsive.
For me, the Dagger is just a range mistress to flog. My preference is with the 1911.
That said, living with the Dagger, it's grown on me to some degree. Knowing what it is, I can't help but entertain the idea of employing Glock parts in a dagger build. Other's might see similar potential in this addition to the parts bin.
I have been using lubed cast bullets in my handgun reloads since the mid 60s. See absolutely no reason to start buying and using plated or coated cast bullets now.
Cleaner shooting and no smoke is no reason to try something new? What about cleaner loading dies?
Do you not drive a fuel injected automobile?
Some of us do still know how to work on and tune a carburetor and a carburetor does not require a computer to run it. That being said, when I exhaust my supply of cast and lubed bullets, I expect I will embrace the cleanliness of coated lead bullets.Cleaner shooting and no smoke is no reason to try something new? What about cleaner loading dies?
Do you not drive a fuel injected automobile?
It would be a dead snake, like this dead horse we're beating.
After all, how many angels can you put on the head of a pin?
And I'm of the 1911 school also.
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twodog max
Member
I have been powder coating a couple years. It works decently well but it is not the perfect solution as the fan boys proclaim. I find it a PIA to mess with. Far simpler to lube size and shoot. But then I never shoot indoors and that would have a bearing on necessity. I also do not see a lot of difference in the cleaning. Certainly not enough to on it's own taking that route. I use it mostly to use up a large quantity of soft lead without the trouble of procuring tin or other hardeners.
Some of us do still know how to work on and tune a carburetor and a carburetor does not require a computer to run it. That being said, when I exhaust my supply of cast and lubed bullets, I expect I will embrace the cleanliness of coated lead bullets.
Me too. I have an 82 Gold Wing that I have to rebuild one of the carbs soon, float leaking. Also have a 2003 KLR650 with a carb and all of my small engines are carbed. I do like fuel injection better though.
Rosewood
Powder coating is work, but since you don't have to let the lube dry (at least with ALOX) overnight, you can cast, PC, size all in the same day.
Rosewood
The Kid
Member
These are the main reasons I haven’t jumped into the PC game. I have a Star sizer and commonly go out to the shop, fire up the pot and preheat a couple molds. Cast a few hundred bullets and drop them on an old towel in a box. When I have what I deem enough I’ll let them cool while I refill the pot and flux the new alloy. By then the bullets are cool and I’ll run them through the Star, it’s really fast being push through and I can do 500 or so an hour.
Then I’m done and ready to go, I’ll often go ahead and load a few hundred up for an evening shoot or the next day’s trip to the ranch.
With good fit and proper lube, alloy, and loads I don’t see enough leading in 500 rounds of 38 special to warrant a brush being passed down the barrel.
For me and my setup that I’m already familiar with and have paid for ages ago I see no benefit to swapping over to PC at this time.
venomballistics
Member
This is method dependent.
There are a number of ways to get the powder on the bullets. Some are quite easy.
