Cast bullets, lever guns, and COL

[Bugkiller99]

I recently acquired a lever gun in 44 mag/spl. I have lots of cast bullets that I shoot in my 629. Cast with Lyman 429667 mold. COL 1.645 crimped on the crimp groove.

I also recently acquired several hundred cast bullets RCBS 430-240. Loaded a dummy round and it too is 1.645 COL

Neither of these will cycle in my lever gun. The nose of the bullet is pushed forward before the elevator gets to the chamber, and it stops there. I have used 429667 in 44 spl, and it cycles and shoots in the lever gun nicely.

So, I am going to have to seat these bullets deeper, and crimp not in the crimp groove. I’ve not done that before. Any thoughts? Normally, I might look for a different mold/bullet. But things aren’t normal now, have to use what I have.

The other option is to upload 44 spl. I don’t have a 44 spl firearm. And I don’t let anyone else shoot my reloads. But that comes with a lot of caveats and concerns.

 

[Rpg]

On cast bullets, what you’re calling “crimp grooves “ are actually designed to hold lube. No harm disregarding it.

 

[rockquarry]

Very common with lever guns. You may prefer to eventually use a shorter bullet that can be seated to normal depth. Use what you have and experiment with crimp. You may be able to seat the bullet to where the top bullet drive band is just about even with the case neck or a hair below and crimp there. Don't overdo it, just enough to prevent the bullet from moving under recoil or when working the action. Or try a taper crimp die; they're seldom recommended for such cartridges but they often work well and you can taper crimp anywhere you'd like. Just don't deform the bullet. Use the lightest crimp that will hold the bullet in place and no more. This will all take a little experimental work, but will be worth the effort in finding out what works. Good luck-

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I wouldn't load those bullets any longer than will produce a 1.610" OAL.

Be careful the recoil doesn't set the bullet back in the tube from the recoil.

 

[TIMETRIPPER]

Some cast bullets do have a crimp groove. They are not as large as the lube groove and are usually beveled toward the base to take the roll crimp. They can be used as a lube groove too.
Just try seating the bullet a little deeper and crimp snug enough to prevent bullet set back with recoil.

John

 

[twodog max]

You did not say what make of lever gun you are shooting. It makes a difference. I have 92 Winchesters and a Rossi clone. Bullet selection is critical. In some bullets you have to seat deeper and crimp on the back edge of the ogive this only works if you have tight neck tension. My 44 magnum 92 will not work with real Keith SWC. The nose is just to long. Actually the closer you get to a round nose flat point design the better the 92 models work. That is where i have moved to and life is simpler. Another tip before you load up a couple hundred make up a few dummy rounds to run through the gun when trying new bullets. It can save a lot of bullet pulling. Take my word for that.

 

[Bugkiller99]

You did not say what make of lever gun you are shooting…

Actually the closer you get to a round nose flat point design the better the 92 models work.

The rifle is a Henry. The RCBS bullet is a SWC, The Lyman is more of a RNFP.

 

[boatbum101]

On the Marlins you can file on carrier tab some to increase coal that will feed . SWC's are problematic in most lever guns . As stated above RNFP or LBT style LFN will often work w/o having to seat too deep . My Henry lever 41mag will not feed either the H&G 258 nor the LY 410459 . I had to go with a 240gr LBT LFN , it exceeds SAAMI max oal but it feeds in my gun & smacks our resident hogs with authority .

 

[mikld]

On cast bullets, what you’re calling “crimp grooves “ are actually designed to hold lube. No harm disregarding it.

??? Didn't see any reference to crimping in a lube groove.

It is quite common to crimp over the shoulder on a SWC and on the ogive of RN or RNFP cast bullets,when necessary. In the pic of the 429667 on the MidWay site the bullet apppears to have two crimp grooves.. Lyman 2-Cavity Bullet Mold #429667 44 Special 44 Remington Mag (430

 

[TIMETRIPPER]

I guess some guns are picky on what they are fed. my Rossi 92 in 357/38 Special chambers everything I've used so far, which has been Lyman's 358311 RN or their 358156 SWC. And in both case lengths too. But I understand that others have had feed problems with the same model, especially with SWCs.

John

 

[Nevada Ed]

If you have a bullet that does not have a "Can" in the right spot for your weapon to feed ..................

just seat at the OAL that works and crimp on the walls of the bullet and just use medium loads, where the bullet does not pull on recoil, to cause problems.

Been there, done that..........
Good loading.

 

[fltbed]

Elmer Kieth wrote about this issue back in the day with the 1894 Winchester's and Marlins so, it's nothing new. His solution was to:
A. Seat the bullets on the shoulder rather that the crimp grove.
or
B. Use special cases.

However, this didn't always work as there are many lever actions that, for what ever reason, won't cycle Keith style bullets.

I've found the LBT style bullets seem to feed better without the shoulder of the Kieth design.
44 Mag, LBT, 250gr, LFN-GC - Montana Bullet Works

Hope this helps.

Jeff

 

[Baltimoreed11754]

Different lever guns operate their bullet feed very differently. Marlins and Winchesters are not the same as Uberti reproductions and what works in one doesn’t always work in another. Go by the manufacturer’s recommendation not your reloading manual. Even then you might have to adjust the oal. Start with a too long dummy load but don’t crimp it. Keep shortening it in your seater die until it feeds. Then build a couple, just because one feeds it doesn’t mean that a magazine full will. The reason is that the nose of the one on the lifter or carrier acts as a bullet stop for the next round in the magazine until the lifter or carrier raises enough to act as the bullet stop. 1866 and 1873s are very picky depending on maker. My old 1894 Marlin Cowboy runs a variety of bullets weights with no problems.

 

[glowe]

I now shoot 44 Mag 240 grain jacketed in my 44-40 lever guns, both Henry and 1866 reproductions. Not sure how hard it is to get a good crimp using hard lead, but just about impossible with standard reloading dies. I solved the problem by purchasing a Lee collet crimp die in 44 Magnum. Properly adjusted, it does a great job of locking that bullet in the brass and I have never had one round set back in the case since.

The rifling in a lot of reproduction Winchesters is quite shallow and I quickly found that soft lead would strip past the rifling and produce poor accuracy, fun to shoot, but did not hit much out past 50 yards. I moved to BHN 12 and found some improvement, but when I started using .429" 44 Mag jacketed bullets, I can now shoot out to 150 yards and hit steel gongs with some regularity. I also have shot it to 300 yards at a 36" gong and hit it some, but the barrel mounted sights are not good enough for my eyes to pick the same spot every shot at that distance.

 

[Drm50]

I have no experience with Henry’s. Marlin levers do not like SWC style bullets regardless OAL. Even Remington Yellow Jackets hang up in 39s.
You can use them by doing kind of double clutch on lever.