CCW: Keep one in the pipe?

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

I think maybe you take it a bit too far. Then again maybe we just disagree. Most of the reasons I see for C3 is to add a layer of safety beyond C1 and to me, that's being as honest as you can be.

I agree with most of the C1 side when I say that I don't see the need for that layer of safety but I don't think they are more afraid of their weapon either just because they want another layer of safety.

As usual, cmort666 is right on the money.

He wrote

"But make that decision honestly.

Most of the excuses I see for not carrying with a round in the chamber indicate a greater fear of ones own firearm than of a violent assailant.

If that's how somebody feels, they should be honest about it.

Truth be told, if I was in such terror of my own defensive tool, I wouldn't carry it."

Note the emphasis that I added.

I can really connect with the words that cmort666 actually wrote. Often it appears to me that he spent time thinking about what he was writing, and that an exact reading comes out right is no accident.

In fact, I HAVE carried a 1911 in "C3", once, about forty years ago, in a fairly special situation, and would not have carried it "C1" in those exact conditions. Nowadays, I occasionally carry bottomfeeders, including Series 80 Colts, always ready to use. More often, I carry revolvers, also ready to use. If I didn't feel comfortable with the state of readiness of my sidearm, I certainly WOULD evaluate which threat I considered greater, and I consider it no insult to anyone for cmort to look at and mention this possible aspect of carry choice, which anyone should honestly evaluate. Of course, many don't do it consciously, because they are not particularly terrified of weapons, possibly because of long-practiced safety habits.

Maybe I'm misssing something, but I don't see anything in cmort's writing for anyone to be sensitive to, unless there is some "issue" causing a special sensitivity.

 

[cmort666]

I think maybe you take it a bit too far. Then again maybe we just disagree. Most of the reasons I see for C3 is to add a layer of safety beyond C1 and to me, that's being as honest as you can be.

I agree with most of the C1 side when I say that I don't see the need for that layer of safety but I don't think they are more afraid of their weapon either just because they want another layer of safety.

But that's a layer of "safety" FROM ones firearm, which ADDS a layer of DANGER from a violent assailant.

The only logical conclusion is that on balance, the person is more afraid of a negligent discharge than a deadly force attack.

Again, it's their choice to make, but they should be straight up about it.

 

[cmort666]

In fact, I HAVE carried a 1911 in "C3", once, about forty years ago, in a fairly special situation, and would not have carried it "C1" in those exact conditions.

The first time I carried my Norinco M1911, I carried condition three. It was a new gun and a new holster. I carried cocked and locked with an empty chamber to make sure that the safety would stay engaged during normal activities, including a mile and a half walk.

After half a day, the safety stayed on. I chambered a round, reapplied the safety and never carried with an empty chamber again until I sold the gun last year.

I had doubts about the first IWB I bought for my Glock 19. It was flimsy, hard to put on, hard to take off, and nearly impossible to holster the gun when wearing it.

My response wasn't to carry condition three in a bad holster. It was to stop carrying THAT gun entirely until I replaced the cheap, piece of garbage Bianchi with a Don Hume 715M, and later a tuckable IWB I made myself.

 

[RalphMP9FS]

The odds of encountering a violent assailant are miniscule compared to the odds for a negligent discharge.

 

[cmort666]

The odds of encountering a violent assailant are miniscule compared to the odds for a negligent discharge.

Then why carry at all?

If the dangers from carrying ones own firearm in a usable condition are SO much greater than those from an unlawful deadly force attack, it's hard to justify exposing oneself to such a VASTLY greater danger of a negligent discharge... isn't it?

 

[Muss Muggins]

The odds of encountering a violent assailant are miniscule compared to the odds for a negligent discharge.

. . . and the odds against overcoming a violent assailant increase exponentially with every added step you must take to bring your weapon to bear effectively . . .

(I've stayed out of this, just reading and chuckling. Finally couldn't help myself.)

 

[RalphMP9FS]

That's what the forum is for, to express opinions. I believe the odds of a deadly attack are miniscule compared to an ND, so to reduce the odds for a ND, an added layer of safety should be exercised. That added layer of safety can come in a plethora of levels.

 

[5wheelin']

The odds of encountering a violent assailant are miniscule compared to the odds for a negligent discharge.

Well, you can do what you want man. All I know is I will never have a safety on any carry gun I ever own. If I ever need to use my firearm (just in case is why I carry one in the first place) I want that firearm to be immediately accessible and all I need to do is draw, aim, pull the trigger. The fewer steps involved the better my chances of survival. And because that scenario is why I'm carrying in the first place, what I carry and the way I carry makes me more effective for that. That's the point after all. I don't understand why I would needlessly complicate that scenario. I'd rather give myself every advantage I can, because if I'm about to be a victim, I'm already at a disadvantage. Might as well not give myself more disadvantages.

 

[Muss Muggins]

That's what the forum is for, to express opinions. I believe the odds of a deadly attack are miniscule compared to an ND, so to reduce the odds for a ND, an added layer of safety should be exercised. That added layer of safety can come in a plethora of levels.

I can explain to you quite easily how to reduce the odds of you having a negligent discharge to zero . . . I cannot, however, do much to reduce the odds of you being the victim of a violent assailant . . . You're on your own there.

 

[RalphMP9FS]

I can explain to you quite easily how to reduce the odds of you having a negligent discharge to zero . . . I cannot, however, do much to reduce the odds of you being the victim of a violent assailant . . . You're on your own there.

Nice try, but reduce to zero without adding a level of safety? I would really love to read how that is remotely possible. That's implying that every human being is not fallible.

I'm a proud owner of an M&P 9 without a manual safety, and there's no way in hell I'm going to conceal carry it everyday with a cocked and loaded chamber. My M&P is strictly for home defense.

For concealed carry, I ordered a new 12 round 9mm that is a true SA/DA that has a smooth faced easy to release manual safety. I realize I can be fallible on any given day under the right circumstances.

 

[Muss Muggins]

Nice try, but reduce to zero without adding a level of safety? I would really love to read how that is remotely possible.

I just don't give you any ammunition . . .

 

[RalphMP9FS]

I just don't give you any ammunition . . .

I like that answer....

 

[ibewbull]

THREAD DRIFT , anchor needed please.

One of my CCW shooting buddies (mag-fed-semi-auto) tells me he doesn't carry a round in the chamber. He uses a crotch holster, guess he's nervous he might have a negligent discharge. Ouch!

He says stuff like: "I've been carrying for years, I will always have time to get one in the pipe."

I say: what if you are wounded and can't use two hands? He starts showing me how he can chamber by holding the semi-auto up against his levi's and pushing on the slide.

Anyone else feel like this guy?

With a proper holster condition one suits me just fine.

Each to his own though.

Some prefer a revolver and that is fine too.

I carried 1911s , Glocks , P38s, J,K,L, N frames and some others too.

I will not pack an old striker fired Jennings or similar gun with one in the pipe. That's just me though.

So on brothers , maybe a Coast Guard ship will save the thread.

It was a question posed not a debate.

 

[Arik]

The odds of encountering a violent assailant are miniscule compared to the odds for a negligent discharge.

How so? Do you holster and upholster every hour?

 

[Arik]

If you're so afraid of ND carry the mag separate. Since you have to chamber anyway and since you practice mag changes anyway this shouldn't take long. Just an extra second to ......As you draw the gun with one hand you draw the mag with the other, as you bring the gun forward you insert the mag and rack that slide. Taadaaa! SAFE!

 

[TurboDieselTorque]

What's the point of an unloaded gun? May as well leave it home.

 

[RalphMP9FS]

How so? Do you holster and upholster every hour?

If you holster once a day, that's 3650 times over 10 years, so if you have a life threatening encounter once in that 10 years (unlikely), that's 3650 chances.

 

[Arik]

Ok but how do I know that the person I just walked past isn't some psycho?

My work is next door to a section 8 motel. Lots of cars in and out every day, prostitutes, strange license plates. I'd say that my odds are a little more than miniscule of encountering a violent assailant.

I've been carrying since 98. Never carried a gun with external safies. Holster everyday. It's not hard to turn your head and look at the holster while inserting the handgun. Oh look nothing in the holster, nothing in the trigger guard! You make it sound like people twirl their guns like Cowboys before holstering

 

[Well Armed]

Ok but how do I know that the person I just walked past isn't some psycho?

My work is next door to a section 8 motel. Lots of cars in and out every day, prostitutes, strange license plates. I'd say that my odds are a little more than miniscule of encountering a violent assailant.

I've been carrying since 98. Never carried a gun with external safies. Holster everyday. It's not hard to turn your head and look at the holster while inserting the handgun. Oh look nothing in the holster, nothing in the trigger guard! You make it sound like people twirl their guns like Cowboys before holstering

Wow that is a pretty bad neighborhood you're working around. Have you ever been robbed or had to shoot or kill anyone before?

 

[cyphertext]

If you holster once a day, that's 3650 times over 10 years, so if you have a life threatening encounter once in that 10 years (unlikely), that's 3650 chances.

I don't holster once a day... well, let me rephrase, I don't place the firearm into the holster once a day. My pistol stays in my holster... I take the holster off with the pistol still inside and place it in the safe when I am not carrying it. When I am going to carry it, the pistol stays in the holster and I put the whole thing on. The trigger is protected the whole time...