SheffieldPD380
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Can you change a SMith & Wesson 3rd generation auto from decock-safety to decock only without much problems?
Change Decokcer-safety to decokcer only
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To use the de-cocking lever as a de-cocker only just flip the lever down and back up. The gun will now fire double action on the first round. Each successive round will fire single action until the de-cocker is activated again or until the gun is empty and reloaded.
We were taught to carry the gun with the hammer down with a live round in the chamber. After firing we were taught to flip the de-cocker down and back up.
We were taught to carry the gun with the hammer down with a live round in the chamber. After firing we were taught to flip the de-cocker down and back up.
OP
SheffieldPD380
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That was always the way I have done it. I just like the idea of Decock only
I can't find the thread, but I recall that this was a mod that S&W could do. Not for a home gunsmith.
I have seen Berettas with the decocker that springs back up, and I know there are 3rd Gen pistols set up that way, but I've never seen one. Would be nice to have.
Dave
I have seen Berettas with the decocker that springs back up, and I know there are 3rd Gen pistols set up that way, but I've never seen one. Would be nice to have.
Dave
4506517
Member
I have a 4006TSW and a 4566TSW that both came that way. I also recall that you can send it back and they will do the conversion for you.
cpeblue
Member
For the decock only the slide has some additional machining done to it . I have a 5906tsw that is hammer drop/safety but has the machining done to the slide . Call CS and see if they would do it for you , if they will it would be interesting to see what they would charge .
I seem to recall someone here contacting S&W within the last year or so and being told they don't offer the decock only conversion any longer.
I'd be interested in finding out what they say today.
I've got the decock only feature on my 4566 duty pistol and 4513TSW off duty gun.
I have several more I'd like to have it done to. Regards 18DAI
I'd be interested in finding out what they say today.
I've got the decock only feature on my 4566 duty pistol and 4513TSW off duty gun.
I have several more I'd like to have it done to. Regards 18DAI
K-framer
Member
On Berettas, it's easy. You only have to remove the detent ball and spring from the left side of the safety/ decocker assembly. Then, the decocker lever will automatically return to the "off" position. On Smiths, as I understand it, it (converting to decock only) is more complicated and requires some modification to the safety/ decocker assembly. (That is what I've heard - I can't vouch for that info myself.)
IMO, for what that's worth, it is not worth the expense of the conversion (on the S&W). Just return the lever to the "off" position, after decocking, as was already mentioned. I prefer the safety feature in addition to the decocker, myself. But, to each his own.
IMO, for what that's worth, it is not worth the expense of the conversion (on the S&W). Just return the lever to the "off" position, after decocking, as was already mentioned. I prefer the safety feature in addition to the decocker, myself. But, to each his own.
joesmith357
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So here's a question, can you convert one with decocker only to the normal safety/decocker? I am guessing yes.
cpeblue
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You are correct. To me the big question is why would you what to do that ?? After you get that 4566 I will be glad to trade you the safety/decocker part for the spring and decock only parts.
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The factory can do it. The TSWs were designed so that parts could simply be changed, but the standard 3rd Gen pistols need some sort of change made by the factory - not a parts change, but maybe some drilling or machining, I think.
This has come up before. There are threads covering this along with pictures showing the machining required on the slide. Also the decocker only assembly is different from the decocker/safety assembly.
IIRC, the slide requires some minor machining to clear the spring on the decocker, along with a small hole to anchor the spring. The process appears fairly simple for someone with machining skills, (Leaves ME out) but locating the assembly might prove troublesome.
IIRC, the slide requires some minor machining to clear the spring on the decocker, along with a small hole to anchor the spring. The process appears fairly simple for someone with machining skills, (Leaves ME out) but locating the assembly might prove troublesome.
I only have a few minutes, so I don't have the time to give the same amount of details I've done about this subject in earlier threads. Maybe you can find them with the Search function (holding your mouth just right, and if the search function gremlins are in a good mood).
So, the quick & dirty, abbreviated version of some related stuff ...
Unless it's a 3rd gen TSW produced after the original compact TSW's, or a 4040PD (don't ask me why that model received the extra machining), the slide is going to require 2 additional machining steps not done to older standard 3rd gen or Value Line guns. It used to be done by the PC for a nominal labor charge.
An older CS45 which originally came with a single side safety required a relief channel cut into the outside of the frame so the ambi lever could be installed/removed. This was usually done by hand-filing by one of the smiths at the PC. Later production .45 slides were revised to eliminate the need for that downward angled relief cut so the ambi lever cleared during removal.
The 9mm slides receiving the spring-loaded, decock-only assembly require a .45 ambi lever. This is because the inside of the .45 lever has some additional metal that acts as a "spacer", keeping the whole decock assembly from shifting leftward, and possibly interfering with firing pin movement due to the inside machining & clearances of the assembly & the firing pin.
This was something not originally done (or known it needed to be done) when the spring-loaded assembly was first being installed on 3rd gen 9's. (I had to order an ambi .45 lever after a subsequent armorer class & manual revision addressed the issue, and even then, the customer service folks hadn't been told about it at that time.)
This image shows the standard 9/40 ambi lever on the left, and the .45 lever on the right. See the extra metal spacer tab on the inside of the .45 lever (I'm pointing a pin punch to it in the image).
The spring-loaded, decock-only assemblies were originally offered to LE customers.
Usually replacing a manual safety body assembly - wroth either another one or a spring-loaded assembly - results in having to fit a new sear release lever. This is because the top of the lever indexes off the bottom round body of the decocking assembly, and the tolerance variations between the various parts can change enough when replacing manual safety/decock-only assemblies that it can affect the decocking "timing".
Proper decocking timing is critical to the normal and safe operation of the gun.
Knowing how to check the decocking timing requires some knowledge, and nowadays a set of 3 "gages". (These are really the non-cutting end shanks of 3 specific numbered metal drill bits.) It used to be taught done by hand and eyeball, but that could lend itself to being done incorrectly. The 3 "gages" make it much easier to know when the correct timing is achieved.
The sear release lever is fitted by filing the bottom of the "foot", carefully maintaining the angle of the original factory cut, lengthwise, as well as side-to-side. One file stroke too many, and the lever is ruined and you have to start again.
The kicker is that although a few existing S&W 3rd gen agency customers have ordered recent production TSW's with the spring-loaded, decock-only assembly, they aren't stocking any extra parts for retail sales. Nor, I've been told, are they making any orders of their vendor for that assembly at this time.
I'd imagine they have a small supply available for repair-only, for their LE customers, but those are pretty much being kept in-house unless specifically needed. Last I heard (maybe it's changed) even the PC didn't have any and couldn't get any.
They used to offer them in both standard "plain" stainless and blackened stainless (cast or MIM, I forget). Just like the slide stop assemblies.
They used to charge between $105 - $120 for the labor & the new assembly & ambi lever. Unless you were an armorer and could check the decocking timing & fit a new sear release lever yourself, if needed (and it usually was), they wanted the complete pistol so they could do the timing check and any necessary sear release lever replacement. Shipping the gun added to the cost of the whole thing.
I have a couple of spring-loaded, decock-only guns. I have another couple that have slides with the necessary machining, but I never got around to ordering the spring-loaded assemblies when they were still available as parts inventory.
Sometimes I kick myself for not having talked one of the older reps out of a couple of spring-loaded assemblies ... and the rest of the time it doesn't matter to me at all.
Too many years of using the standard manual safety assembly as a decocker.
if you're serious about wanting one with that option, you might keep an eye out for some of the LE turn-ins that have them, or someone who is silly enough to want to sell their gun they had converted ...
So, the quick & dirty, abbreviated version of some related stuff ...
Unless it's a 3rd gen TSW produced after the original compact TSW's, or a 4040PD (don't ask me why that model received the extra machining), the slide is going to require 2 additional machining steps not done to older standard 3rd gen or Value Line guns. It used to be done by the PC for a nominal labor charge.
An older CS45 which originally came with a single side safety required a relief channel cut into the outside of the frame so the ambi lever could be installed/removed. This was usually done by hand-filing by one of the smiths at the PC. Later production .45 slides were revised to eliminate the need for that downward angled relief cut so the ambi lever cleared during removal.
The 9mm slides receiving the spring-loaded, decock-only assembly require a .45 ambi lever. This is because the inside of the .45 lever has some additional metal that acts as a "spacer", keeping the whole decock assembly from shifting leftward, and possibly interfering with firing pin movement due to the inside machining & clearances of the assembly & the firing pin.
This was something not originally done (or known it needed to be done) when the spring-loaded assembly was first being installed on 3rd gen 9's. (I had to order an ambi .45 lever after a subsequent armorer class & manual revision addressed the issue, and even then, the customer service folks hadn't been told about it at that time.)
This image shows the standard 9/40 ambi lever on the left, and the .45 lever on the right. See the extra metal spacer tab on the inside of the .45 lever (I'm pointing a pin punch to it in the image).
The spring-loaded, decock-only assemblies were originally offered to LE customers.
Usually replacing a manual safety body assembly - wroth either another one or a spring-loaded assembly - results in having to fit a new sear release lever. This is because the top of the lever indexes off the bottom round body of the decocking assembly, and the tolerance variations between the various parts can change enough when replacing manual safety/decock-only assemblies that it can affect the decocking "timing".
Proper decocking timing is critical to the normal and safe operation of the gun.
Knowing how to check the decocking timing requires some knowledge, and nowadays a set of 3 "gages". (These are really the non-cutting end shanks of 3 specific numbered metal drill bits.) It used to be taught done by hand and eyeball, but that could lend itself to being done incorrectly. The 3 "gages" make it much easier to know when the correct timing is achieved.
The sear release lever is fitted by filing the bottom of the "foot", carefully maintaining the angle of the original factory cut, lengthwise, as well as side-to-side. One file stroke too many, and the lever is ruined and you have to start again.
The kicker is that although a few existing S&W 3rd gen agency customers have ordered recent production TSW's with the spring-loaded, decock-only assembly, they aren't stocking any extra parts for retail sales. Nor, I've been told, are they making any orders of their vendor for that assembly at this time.
I'd imagine they have a small supply available for repair-only, for their LE customers, but those are pretty much being kept in-house unless specifically needed. Last I heard (maybe it's changed) even the PC didn't have any and couldn't get any.
They used to offer them in both standard "plain" stainless and blackened stainless (cast or MIM, I forget). Just like the slide stop assemblies.
They used to charge between $105 - $120 for the labor & the new assembly & ambi lever. Unless you were an armorer and could check the decocking timing & fit a new sear release lever yourself, if needed (and it usually was), they wanted the complete pistol so they could do the timing check and any necessary sear release lever replacement. Shipping the gun added to the cost of the whole thing.
I have a couple of spring-loaded, decock-only guns. I have another couple that have slides with the necessary machining, but I never got around to ordering the spring-loaded assemblies when they were still available as parts inventory.
Sometimes I kick myself for not having talked one of the older reps out of a couple of spring-loaded assemblies ... and the rest of the time it doesn't matter to me at all.
Too many years of using the standard manual safety assembly as a decocker.if you're serious about wanting one with that option, you might keep an eye out for some of the LE turn-ins that have them, or someone who is silly enough to want to sell their gun they had converted ...
Last edited:
cpeblue
Member
How are you doing Fastbolt , I was wondering were you've been.
joesmith357
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Excellent explanation, thanks.
Here's a thread from 2010 with Fastbolt to the rescue starting in post #6 and more extensive pictures in post #8.
http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-...y-switch-decocker-w-safety-decokcer-only.html
Dave
http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-...y-switch-decocker-w-safety-decokcer-only.html
Dave
Busy & somewhat distracted. Thanks for asking.
Grand daughter locally ... and a new grand daughter in another state (which keeps us traveling) ... health monitoring (cancer survivor) ... continuing to serve as a LE firearms instructor & armorer while retired ... enjoying the coastal mountains & roads on my motorcycle ... trying to iron out more details on our retirement home in the mountains ... running over the hill to spend time with the guys at some different cigar clubs ...
The usual.
Beats the alternative, though, doesn't it?
Beats the alternative, though, doesn't it?
As even a relative newcomer to Third Generation pistols (having bought a CS9 and a 908) and in serious appreciation of the design, I've come to look for and learn from Fastbolt's explanations and history of these fine guns. This exploration of the decocker and/or safety and how it would or could work is a good example.
Thanks for your contributions to this site.
