Changing attitudes about concealed carry

[shouldazagged]

"Not a safe assumption, and I know people who prove the point that it isn't."

Yea, just think Mayor/Senator Feinstein.......

No, I meant real gun people.

 

[vito]

I've met more than one anti-gun individual who owns guns, and one who carries. They are just anti-gun for the rest of us, not themselves. They KNOW that they are responsible and are not going to get into a shootout over a parking space or a bump in a bar, but they worry that the other person will behave irrationally.

 

[Old TexMex]

I've met more than one anti-gun individual who owns guns, and one who carries. They are just anti-gun for the rest of us, not themselves. They KNOW that they are responsible and are not going to get into a shootout over a parking space or a bump in a bar, but they worry that the other person will behave irrationally.

They THINK they know.
(Not referring to your individual people, just generalizing about the attitude of the "you shouldn't carry, but my bodyguards can" crowd)

 

[Old cop]

My wife has never been interested in carrying but is glad I do. As we were reading the morning paper about all the terrorist threats I mentioned it & she said she'd been thinking about it. I was floored to say the least. We'll see where this goes, there's a brand new Taurus PT22 waiting for her.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

The overwhelming majority of gun owners don't carry.

Only about 10% of adults have a carry permit in Tennessee. My guess is that a majority of those don't carry much. New law allows loaded handguns in cars without a permit. I wouldn't be surprised to see fewer permits issued because of it.

Attitudes toward carry law has changed dramatically over the last quarter century with Shall Issue sweeping the nation. But the idea that one should carry a gun on his/her person as a matter of course isn't very popular.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Hey guys, keep political commentary out of the discussion.

 

[The Big D]

To the very best of my knowledge, NONE of my non-LEO friends carries a gun. In fact, there are more than a few LEO friends who usually do NOT CCW when off duty.

Many of my friends do know I routinely CCW; none care a whit that I do. Though they sometimes inquire if I am carrying at a particular moment, none have ever questioned why I do now that I am retired. But some have asked why I can CCW wherever I go in my travels.

Family members have zero interest in carrying a gun but don't care (or seem to care) that I do.

I refrain from questioning personal choices of others and firmly believe the decision to carry or not is the sole prerogative of the individual person in accordance with applicable law.

Be safe.

 

[GaryS]

I see that as changing. I carry all the time now, and so do a number of people I know who would not even consider it a few years ago.

My son has an AL CCW permit and after a few incidents in shady areas of Mobile is on the verge of carrying all the time. My DIL has even talked of getting her CCW permit. Most surprisingly, my oh so liberal daughter who moved to Texas is thinking about it.

The fastest growing demographic of gun owners is women, particularly young women.

The overwhelming majority of gun owners don't carry.

Only about 10% of adults have a carry permit in Tennessee. My guess is that a majority of those don't carry much. New law allows loaded handguns in cars without a permit. I wouldn't be surprised to see fewer permits issued because of it.

Attitudes toward carry law has changed dramatically over the last quarter century with Shall Issue sweeping the nation. But the idea that one should carry a gun on his/her person as a matter of course isn't very popular.

 

[Biggfoot44]

That would be great , but I'd be interested in seeing the statistics for TN , 10% would be by far the highest the US. The last I saw, 5% was in the upper eschelons for statewide numbers. I have been told by a friend from there that there is a specific County in Pa that has 10% .

The other related factor is what is/ isn't allowed in a particular state without a CCW permit. States that otherwise prohibit unloaded cased transport unless directly to an aproved destination and back , will have higher demand than those that allow carry in vehicles and/ or open carry. A substantial % of gunowners are satisfied with having their roscoe in their ride if needed , but not routinely carrying on their person. Not advocating that view , just reporting.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

That would be great , but I'd be interested in seeing the statistics for TN , 10% would be by far the highest the US. The last I saw, 5% was in the upper eschelons for statewide numbers. I have been told by a friend from there that there is a specific County in Pa that has 10% .

As of Sept 2014 there is 477k permit holders in Tenn.

http://www.tn.gov/safety/stats/DL_Handgun/Handgun/Current_HG_PermitHolders.pdf

Population of Tennessee is 6.5mil
23% are under 18.

Tennessee QuickFacts from the US Census Bureau

477k / 5mil (18 or older) is about 10%. If you changed "adult" from 18 to 21 (21 is required to get a permit) the percentage of course would be higher but I don't have an under 21 number.

Yes, you are right. Tennessee has a high percentage of permit holders but there are states with higher numbers.

 

[Lockback]

My wife grew up in rural Indiana but her parents, who are politically conservative, were nonetheless slightly anti-gun. Imagine her surprise when staying at my apartment one night when we first started dating, she spied my Glock 19 in the nightstand drawer. It caused a mild and brief firestorm of concern.
"What is that???"
"Well, what do you think it is?"
"Why do you have a gun?"
"For self defense. And also, by the way, for fun. They're fun to shoot."
Hmmmm. I don't like guns."
"Have you ever shot one?"
"Yeah. One of those little rifle thingies ..."
"Probably a .22. Good for you. Okay! here's the deal, honey: let's say somebody broke in right now and tried to get into this bedroom. Would you rather I try to beat them with my fists or have a gun?"
You get the idea.
Now, fast-forward a few years and we're married. A buddy of mine, a former coworker now employed by a security firm, called me and offered me a free CCW course. I asked my wife first. She had no objections.
After I passed the course and picked up my CCW license, I slowly and carefully got her used to having handguns around and me carrying them. I talked to her about guns, how they work, demonstrated ammo reloading, etc. she quickly got used to the concept of me being armed virtually all of the time.
Nowadays, she expects it. Her parents and kids know I carry most of the time, even her ultra-liberal son. We don't talk about it much, although I welcome any discussions, but they trust me and know I do it for them more than I do myself.

 

[vigil617]

Gary, you are right. More folks are becoming aware of CC and are opting to get their licenses.

I am a case in point. When our state's legislature passed a CC statute several years ago, I thought it was a terrible idea, and that it would actually be a threat to public safety instead of an enhancement.

I have changed my mind about that, given time to look at what the effects of CC have been. I even opted to get my own license and begin carrying myself, mostly because I recognized that I was a person of suitable temperament, intelligence, and responsibility to do so.

My personal political beliefs tend to the progressive side. I don't see any conflict between them and my decision to CC as a matter of informed, responsible personal choice -- which, for me, is the essence of my belief system.

 

[eveled]

I never really thought about it in this context. We should encourage our spouses and adult children to get their permits, even if they have no interest at this time to actually carry. If for no other reason, to show the law makers how many voters see the value of firearms.

 

[GaryS]

I never really thought about it in this context. We should encourage our spouses and adult children to get their permits, even if they have no interest at this time to actually carry. If for no other reason, to show the law makers how many voters see the value of firearms.

Based on what happened in MA, politicians are becoming aware of the potential political power of gun owners. We were on track to be saddled with a ridiculously restrictive new set of laws. While within MA, there is still debate about the effects of the new law, gun owners rallied, deluged their politicians with email, mail, and phone calls. Most of the bad language was removed from the bill, and a couple of good things even ended up getting added in.

When politicians see that gun owners are organized, they start to act accordingly. The more people who own guns and have permits, the better it is for us overall.

 

[GaryS]

Gary, you are right. More folks are becoming aware of CC and are opting to get their licenses.

I am a case in point. When our state's legislature passed a CC statute several years ago, I thought it was a terrible idea, and that it would actually be a threat to public safety instead of an enhancement.

In no state where CCW has become law has crime done anything but go down. The numbers have been consistent since the late 1980s when states started passing CCW laws.

I might be getting a little bit inside baseball here, but here is my theory on why it's a good thing.

In public health, they talk about the concept of "herd immunity". The theory is that once a certain percentage of a population becomes vaccinated against a disease, the disease can not effectively spread. As a result, even non inoculated people are protected from the disease.

I think the same thing applies to CCW. Once criminals become aware that a significant number of gun owners are carrying weapons for self defense, they are less likely to commit crimes because there is an increased likelihood that they (the criminals) might get shot for the trouble.

It's why I think the police chief in Detroit was smart to publicly advise people to get their permits and carry guns. Other chiefs and sheriffs have done similar things and I think that's a positive move.

Enough of my pseudo social science for the day. Time to take out the trash, fold laundry, and continue to fight off my cold.

 

[HayesGreener]

I spent 42 years in law enforcement and am now a PI so I have carried all my adult life-it would be unnatural for me to go unarmed. I did when a young law enforcement officer in the 70's from time to time go unarmed because I just didn't think I needed it until I encountered a crook I had sent to prison at an amusement park. Nothing bad happened but I resolved to never go unarmed again. Many officers of the time had a laissez faire attitude about carrying off duty because they did not feel a threat. Over time LE attitudes in general shifted toward carrying 24/7, I think because of the perception of an increased threat to the public at large from criminals and rampaging nut jobs. The 9/11 attacks seem to have helped to cement that attitude as well. The way I explain my attitude about always being heeled is that while I may still become a victim due to circumstances beyond my control, I damn sure will not become a helpless victim. I believe attitudes in the non-LE population reflect similar views-hence the proliferation of CCW licensing laws and heretofore "non-gun" citizens taking advantage of their right to self defense. Criminals and even mass murderers are opportunists, and for the most part cowards. Like all predators they want to avoid being injured or interfered with in an attack. There is a reason violent crime in general are down and that mass killings happen in no gun zones against soft targets-anyone with intellect can see it. The women in my family are some of the sweetest and gentlest creatures on earth but in the past couple of years have begun arming themselves against a sense of foreboding of what will happen in our society in the future.

 

[vito]

Chances of getting my wife to get her license are about the same as Obama wanting to cut federal taxes. She won't shoot, touch a gun, or think about it. I am working on my grown daughters, but no luck yet.

 

[captcook]

Chances of getting my wife to get her license are about the same as Obama wanting to cut federal taxes. She won't shoot, touch a gun, or think about it. I am working on my grown daughters, but no luck yet.

Same here my wife is terrified of guns because of an indecent that happened when she was a teenager. Well a friend of hers committed suicide with a handgun and she has been terrified since. I have tried to get her interested but to no avail. When we were first married i could not have any guns but now i own about 30 guns i think she's coming around after 26 years.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

I see that as changing. I carry all the time now, and so do a number of people I know who would not even consider it a few years ago.

My son has an AL CCW permit and after a few incidents in shady areas of Mobile is on the verge of carrying all the time. My DIL has even talked of getting her CCW permit. Most surprisingly, my oh so liberal daughter who moved to Texas is thinking about it.

The fastest growing demographic of gun owners is women, particularly young women.

Below is a TN report for all permits issued in 2013 (new and renewed) Female/male ratio stays pretty consistent at 1 to 2 for all age groups until age 61 where the ratio changes quite a bit to mostly men. I guess us old farts just won't give up, eh?

I advocate for everyone to have the freedom to carry. I don't much try to convince anyone to carry. Carrying a gun is a lot of responsibility.

 

[Lockback]

I think another positive point: the more people own and carry guns, the harder it's going to be for future administrations to nullify those laws which allow it.