Changing sights and boresight questions

[Holdthepickle]

I bought a M&P 9c recently and planned on changing out the sights to some warren tactical (Fiber optic front, tact rear). I purchased a M&P TekMat for a exploded view of the gun. Rebuild and modify turbos in my spare time so none of this should be a problem. My two question topics would be:

1) What tools are needed to change a M&P 9c sights? I know a rubber mallet/finishing hammer, vice.....brass punch? (mm?), allen wrench (size)?

2) Is there any sub $100 universal boresighter's out there worth picking up? I understand it is a trigonometry problem that involves distance, and that they are not 100% accurate. The 9 is my first gun but probably not my last, so I would like a tool I could use on multiple calibers.

Much appreciated!!

 

[Houdini1953]

If you are going to remove the rear sights then you will also need an M&P rear sight tool. This tool fits into the dovetail and as you are taking the sights off from left to right you push this tool to keep the sear block spring and cap in place as you pull the sights completely off the slide.

This is just a little plastic tool that is made to fit into the dovetail and should follow the edge of the sight until you have it completely removed, then as you put the new sight in you let the sight push the tool out of the dovetail as you are re installing the sight! Believe me you you be glad you did use this tool, I did not and out came the spring and cap and I had to take it to a gunsmith just to get it put back in and he showed me one of these tools!

Here is a link to this $3.99 tool S&W M&P REAR SIGHT TOOL - Brownells

 

[Neumann]

You don't need a boresight with iron sights. We are not talking MOA accuracy. It's more like 8 MOA for a target grade pistol, likely more, fired from a rest. If you center the front and rear sights, you will be close enough to stay on paper at 25 feet (or more). You may wish to adjust the windage, if you know it's the pistol and not your marksmanship. Elevation is what it is, unless you got the wrong set of sights.

 

[Holdthepickle]

If you are going to remove the rear sights then you will also need an M&P rear sight tool. This tool fits into the dovetail and as you are taking the sights off from left to right you push this tool to keep the sear block spring and cap in place as you pull the sights completely off the slide.

This is just a little plastic tool that is made to fit into the dovetail and should follow the edge of the sight until you have it completely removed, then as you put the new sight in you let the sight push the tool out of the dovetail as you are re installing the sight! Believe me you you be glad you did use this tool, I did not and out came the spring and cap and I had to take it to a gunsmith just to get it put back in and he showed me one of these tools!

Here is a link to this $3.99 tool S&W M&P REAR SIGHT TOOL - Brownells

Much appreciated

You don't need a boresight with iron sights. We are not talking MOA accuracy. It's more like 8 MOA for a target grade pistol, likely more, fired from a rest. If you center the front and rear sights, you will be close enough to stay on paper at 25 feet (or more). You may wish to adjust the windage, if you know it's the pistol and not your marksmanship. Elevation is what it is, unless you got the wrong set of sights.

I shoot on public lands in the middle of the desert, which makes the original topic one of convenience rather than necessity. All target setups are made at home and brought out to the desert which is a PITA

I am very new to guns, so "yes" the tool also negates the any flaws in marksmanship.

 

[Fishinfool]

HTP-

I'll second that advice that you not purchase a bore sighting device for this pistol. Useful on scoped rifles, they are basically a waste of time on a short barreled, fixed sight handgun.

When you install the new sights, just eye ball them as close to centered on the slide as you can. When you go shooting, bring the correct Allen wrench, a small hammer, and a brass punch.

Get back 10 yards, and put a magazine full into a target. Loosen the Allen screw, and fine tune the windage of the rear sight with the brass punch as needed.

For the $100 or so you are planning on spending purchasing a bore sighting tool, you would be much better served buying a case of inexpensive 115 grain ball practice ammo available at most large mail order businesses like Natchez, Cheaper then Dirt, Midsouth Distributors, or even your local Walmart.

Larry

 

[Twoboxer]

I'll second or third that a bore sighter is a waste of money. If you insist on something to help you set the new iron sights, get a Crimson Trace Railamster. Sight the laser using your old sights, sight the new ones using the laser. At least the laser will provide value after your done.

 

[Holdthepickle]

THanks for the advice guys!! I figured I being such a novice with a gun that a laser would be beneficial, since my shots are somewhat off now at 7 yards.

30 rounds at 7 yards with what I believe is a 8" target for a distance reference. I have picked up a few books on tactical/pistol shooting and I know my grip and stance is textbook. Trigger is breaking at a good position in relation to the tip of my finger, which is bent at 90 degrees and pulling straight back at the break. With this being said I figured the factory sights could not be this far off, straight out of the box

2 days ago

 

[mrcllusb]

Do you know if you're left or right eye dominant? I've always shoot right eye,but recently found out that i'm left eye dominant!

 

[mrcllusb]

Here is a video on it Dominant eye test - YouTube

 

[scooter123]

Shooting left is typical and most often caused by shooter error, to the tune of about 99% of the time. The problem in your case is most likely that you are "jerking" the trigger at the break. If you were shooting low and left I would say that you were both jerking the trigger and anticipating recoil, meaning that you had a combination of a jerk and a flinch.

Don't feel bad about this, issues like this are so common that many times even highly experienced shooters will have to work on correcting a flaw in their technique. I was shooting left hand only a couple of weeks ago and put the first 2 boxes of ammo right of center just about in a mirror image of your target. The difference between you and me is that I've been shooting handguns since the 70's and I was shooting at 10 yards. My response was to slow down, concentrate, and pay attention to getting a "clean" break on the trigger. Ended up by putting my last box of ammo dead center on the target.

Point is that most of the time shooting or accuracy issues are caused by the shooter. The fact is that firearms today are very well made and it's extremely rare for sights to be far enough out of wack to cause a 2 or 3 inch error at only 25 feet or so. In my experience you have to back out to 75 feet or more to see a sighting error in excess of 2 inches or so.

 

[Mikey217]

The factory sights on my 40c were off by that much right out of the box. I started off having the recoil anticipation issue, which has improved with lots of shooting and dry fire practice, but my targets still looked like yours. Upon closer examination, I saw that the front sight was a couple of mm to the right of center. I have a sight tool to center it with, but haven't had much luck in getting it to budge yet. I'm interested to see if I can get the rounds right in the bull once I get the sight to move.

 

[mewisemajic]

Your group could be caused by the load and your sights. It could also be your technique or anticipation of the shot. Plenty of dry fire and the wall drill will help with technique.

 

[Holdthepickle]

Do you know if you're left or right eye dominant? I've always shoot right eye,but recently found out that i'm left eye dominant!

Right eye, the same drill was in the books I have read.

Shooting left is typical and most often caused by shooter error, to the tune of about 99% of the time. The problem in your case is most likely that you are "jerking" the trigger at the break. If you were shooting low and left I would say that you were both jerking the trigger and anticipating recoil, meaning that you had a combination of a jerk and a flinch.

Don't feel bad about this, issues like this are so common that many times even highly experienced shooters will have to work on correcting a flaw in their technique. I was shooting left hand only a couple of weeks ago and put the first 2 boxes of ammo right of center just about in a mirror image of your target. The difference between you and me is that I've been shooting handguns since the 70's and I was shooting at 10 yards. My response was to slow down, concentrate, and pay attention to getting a "clean" break on the trigger. Ended up by putting my last box of ammo dead center on the target.

Point is that most of the time shooting or accuracy issues are caused by the shooter. The fact is that firearms today are very well made and it's extremely rare for sights to be far enough out of wack to cause a 2 or 3 inch error at only 25 feet or so. In my experience you have to back out to 75 feet or more to see a sighting error in excess of 2 inches or so.

The factory sights on my 40c were off by that much right out of the box. I started off having the recoil anticipation issue, which has improved with lots of shooting and dry fire practice, but my targets still looked like yours. Upon closer examination, I saw that the front sight was a couple of mm to the right of center. I have a sight tool to center it with, but haven't had much luck in getting it to budge yet. I'm interested to see if I can get the rounds right in the bull once I get the sight to move.

Your group could be caused by the load and your sights. It could also be your technique or anticipation of the shot. Plenty of dry fire and the wall drill will help with technique.

THanks for all the info guys!! From what I have read if ANYTHING I lean towards too much finger on trigger which would break the shots right, but I could easily be pushing way too hard through the break. I am a novice and I do believe this is part of getting better, hence the groups to the left.

To go back to the original question though; Should I go to a cheap laser (even the bullet type) if I am installing new sights and I am a novice shooter? Besides not having anything to bench rest on where I shot, I would eliminate the any deficiencies in my marksmanship.

 

[mewisemajic]

To go back to the original question though; Should I go to a cheap laser (even the bullet type) if I am installing new sights and I am a novice shooter? Besides not having anything to bench rest on where I shot, I would eliminate the any deficiencies in my marksmanship.

If you think it could help, I don't see a problem buying a cheap bullet type laser. Personally, I think trying different ammo and dry fire practice might help just as much. Again, the most it will hurt to try a boresight will be the cost of the boresight.

 

[Maddmax]

Do you know if you're left or right eye dominant? I've always shoot right eye,but recently found out that i'm left eye dominant!

Simpler than the video. Just look at something in the distance and point your finger at the object and close one eye at a time. The eye that lines up with your finger at what you are pointing at is the dominate eye.