Charles Askins, Jr,

I do have that book plus several more he wrote. I think I did eat up a lot of his writing when I was young but now that I have "Matured" my view of him is a lot different than it was 50 years ago when I thought it was all about being tough. I think most go through that phase, and hopefully it is just a phase. Maybe even he hopefully softened at the end. I see when it got right down to it he DIDNT take his own life "On his terms" as he had more than hinted he would do when the time came. If not, there just might be somewhere close to 32 people with a grudge meeting him that he cant kill again. Ya think?
 
I had an opportunity to meet him around 1980 at an NRA convention but over hearing his conversation with the kid behind the Pachmayr booth I decided to pass.

Bob Milek spent 10 days with me in Africa in the mid 80's and Askin's name came up Bob being with Peterson's Hunting magazine knew him well I will never forget the look of fear on his face when he said you don't want to mess with him he is a killer. He was genuinely afraid of the man.

A Pro Hunter I knew in those days claimed Askins came out every year to hunt buffalo with him and took great pleasure in shooting them in the most awkward locations just to see their reaction. I don't know how true the PHs stories were and I certainly hope a Rhodesian or Askins for that matter would not have executed an infant?

Ed Matunas is a very good friend now a retired writer and he knew Askins quite well He said Askins took great pleasure making comments simply for the shock value. For example when asked the best place to shoot someone he would respond in the back. He was very public about his killings and perhaps he wanted to project himself as a tough guy. Although Ed told me of an incident in Mexico where Askins was the first one to leave the bar and avoid a fight. When he was asked by Massad as to how many me he killed he quoted a line by John Wesley Hardin x number of men not counting XXX and XXX.

Bill Jorden was not that public about his shootings but amongst friends made light of it one favorite line was the trick is to shoot the Mexicans on their side of the border so you do not have to clean up.
 
In his book he does talk of illegally helping a rancher cross the border into Mexico to retrieve his stolen herd. A noble task, it seems. But you can tell he's less interested in getting the cattle back as he is getting a chance to kill the cattle thieves which he and the rancher proceed to do. So, I guess THE PILGRIM has a point there as he mentioned a couple posts back here.
 
A lot of negative things are being said about him and I don't think he was a sweetheart, but he was one of the greatest law enforcement shooters of all time. He was a national champion with a shotgun and handgun and pretty darn good with a rifle also. There was no "fleeing felon" protection law in those days and a couple of the guys he shot in the back were trying to take his gun, and in the old days that would get you shot by most cops. It should also be noted that several men he killed in shootouts would likely have killed other LE officers had his abilities not been so good. Many of the experts who didn't have much good to say about him might also admit that if the chips were down... Askins would be their first pick to be at their side in a gunfight.
 
We are all looking at this thru "Modern eyes". We need to remember, "the past is like another country, they did things differently there". I had the opportunity to spend a couple of hours with Col. Askins at the first Bianchi Shoot in Columbia ,Mo. and found him to be very cordial and interesting. All my best, Joe.
 
We are all looking at this thru "Modern eyes".
A lot of what he describes doing would have been illegal in 2014, 1914, and indeed in 1814.

I could be mistaken, but I seem to recall him COMMITTING an armed robbery early in "Unrepentant Sinner". WHEN was that either legal or looked upon with favor by the general public... at least the ones who DIDN'T count themselves as fans of Jessie James or Bonnie & Clyde?
 
Early in my young life I served under, what I thought of then and quite frankly still do today, "hard" men. They were combat veterans of both WWII and Korea as well as 25 year vets of metro Law enforcement. Several of them had killed multiple "bad guys" and quite frankly they did not suffer any recriminations about doing it and did not appear to hesitate if they had to do it again. They did not talk about it but would offer sage advice about not holding back if you thought your life or the life of someone else was threatened. Again guys, my experience is already 45 years old and Askins' is even farther back. As I said above the past is different. Heck today a young child can be expelled from school for defending himself from a school yard bully. I am sure any of us who are on the far side of 60 had advice from our fathers to not take abuse from any bully and not back down from what needed to be done. If you apply "modern" standards to any of the 20's thru 50's lawmen, many of them would or could be thrown off the force and possibly/probably be sued or worse. This is not to say I agree with everything that was done, just that you need to put it all in perspective. One only has to read the reports and history of the Texas Rangers, the NYPD Stakeout Squad, the Hat Squad in LA , or for that matter the Gunners that Hoover brought into the FBI to go after and kill the bandits of the 30's. Askins was a man of his time. He most certainly could and would be in trouble today. As I said earlier if you have been around hard men I believe you might have a different understanding. This is my opinion and mine alone and I mean no disrespect to any of my Forum Friends and fellow posters in this thread, All my very best, Joe.
 
The best part of G. Gordon Liddy's book "Will" was him talking about being a new FBI agent and wondering about two old guys there who were obviously past retirement. He said they were two old time lawmen from Oklahoma and were still allowed to work because the were no nonsense gunmen and the first guys called in dangerous situations. They packed tuned up 5" S&W .357s and tutored Liddy who also bought such a gun, but 3 1/2". This was the early 60s I think.
 
Years ago, after tiring of hearing him talk about shooting while standing on your "hind legs", I asked him which of his "fore legs" he shot with.
I never received a reply. :)
 
In these days when everyone who ever served in the military gets a "thank you for your service", seems to me that Col. Askins deserves better. Especially since he's not here to defend himself. I read his books and articles, and while he may have fallen short of "perfect" he deserves better.

Colonel, thank you for your service!
 
The best part of G. Gordon Liddy's book "Will" was him talking about being a new FBI agent and wondering about two old guys there who were obviously past retirement. He said they were two old time lawmen from Oklahoma and were still allowed to work because the were no nonsense gunmen and the first guys called in dangerous situations. They packed tuned up 5" S&W .357s and tutored Liddy who also bought such a gun, but 3 1/2". This was the early 60s I think.


Was one "Jelly" Bryce? He was from OK and surely as deadly as Askins. But as far as I know, everyone he killed had it coming. He must have been remarkably fast and accurate.

Jeff Cooper told me that he (Cooper) killed only three men. But I think he'd be an asset in a fight.
 
Was one "Jelly" Bryce? He was from OK and surely as deadly as Askins. But as far as I know, everyone he killed had it coming. He must have been remarkably fast and accurate.

Jeff Cooper told me that he (Cooper) killed only three men. But I think he'd be an asset in a fight.
No, but Bryce came to mind when I was writing that post.
 
Was one "Jelly" Bryce? He was from OK and surely as deadly as Askins. But as far as I know, everyone he killed had it coming. He must have been remarkably fast and accurate.

Delft "Jelly" Bryce was promoted up to Special Agent in Charge (Albuquerque Division) before he retired, so he was not one of the gents referenced above. I walk past his portrait on SAC row about every day at the office.
 
IF only part of the stuff I have just read is true, Askins was over the top in any age of this country. I dug up this old thread I posted and read all 29 pages of the posters. Many of them claimed to have first hand experiances with him and his "Manners". Read all of it for yourselves and come back and give your imput.
So...how bout Charles Askins, Jr.? - 24hourcampfire
I wonder how many of us posted a few days ago about how "far over the top" and un nessary that guy Byron Smith was killing those two teenagers that had been stealing him blind. Remember that? How could anyone defend Askins and condem Smith for finishing off those two teenagers?
I really believe even in Askins day in the 30s and 40s his actions wouldnt have been tolerated had he been found out or not protected by several fellow officers. He brags about them long after the fact to where if some higher officals were to call him out on it all he would have to do is say, cant you take a lie? And just laugh at them. If NOTHING else, just read about the 8 or so posters that claimed to have interacted with him regarding him feeling their wives knees etc at partys or whatever in a manner that was dareing their husbands to try and do something about it.
He was my hero once too until I started reading this other stuff years ago. As my dad would say many years ago, "What a man!" And when he said that, it couldnt be mistaken for a compliment. If so, and nothing else, he ENJOYED killing. And if none of THIS is so, what would we call him?
 
Here are a few facts about Askins:

He fought for his country in WWII and Korea and achieved the rank of Colonel(not necessarily an easy task if you are a screw up).

He worked many years as a peace officer and risked his life serving in one of the most dangerous parts of America.

His marksmanship and tactics very likely saved the lives of other law enforcement officers.

He arrested or ended the careers of many dangerous criminals.

He was a top level competitive shooter and national champion in skeet shooting and NRA bullseye(not an easy task either).

He was an accomplished author with many books and published articles.

There are a lot negative things that have already been stated about him, but a lot of the illegal activities was hearsay and no charges were filed, and Askins made his living writing so it was possible some of his stories were juiced up to enhance the entertainment value. Askins also like to say things that "shock people"(I must admit I also do that to certain people).

His family and especially his wife and granddaughter really loved him, and no one will ever know the real truth. He is no hero to me but he is now, a pretty interesting legend.
 
There are a lot negative things that have already been stated about him, but a lot of the illegal activities was hearsay and no charges were filed,
Is it "hearsay" if HE admitted to them... IN WRITING?

When's the last time YOU admitted to being involved in an armed robbery? If you weren't why WOULD you?

  • sociopath
  • pathological liar
  • both
You tell me.

You have no control over how others portray you.

You have TOTAL control over how you portray YOURSELF.
 
What I have a hard time beleiving that there are so many people out there that claim to have had personal experiance with him! The guy has been dead for years. I think there is a lot of BSing going one here.

John
 
A lot of the negative attitude towards Askins seems to come from his manners-or lack there of. Interesting that many in the shooting community hail Seal Team 6 for taking out Osama Bin Laden or snipers in the current and past conflicts-for their skill and daring. But IMHO it's one thing to bust in on an unarmed man with the World's Finest by your side or drill someone from 300 yards away and another to do it in a dark alley with the bullets already flying and the odds against you.
 
Is it "hearsay" if HE admitted to them... IN WRITING?

When's the last time YOU admitted to being involved in an armed robbery? If you weren't why WOULD you?

  • sociopath
  • pathological liar
  • both
You tell me.

You have no control over how others portray you.

You have TOTAL control over how you portray YOURSELF.

He made money by selling books and magazine articles. People don't want to buy uninteresting reading material, and he says he did all these things but it was never anything he could be later charged with.

Heck, there are loudmouth guys at my gun club who have killed more men than he did, just ask em'. ....and all were shot right between the eyes!:)
 
Golly, we sure have been beatin' this topic to death, and I'm sure the Colonel is turnin' in his grave as we speak.

Having known a few good ol' boys of that generation, I have to echo the sentiments of some folks on this thread who have pointed out the fact that it was a different time.

Not too many decades ago, there was an old boy who lived in a town just south of my place. His name was Bill Carson, but for some reason, everybody called him "Base Bill." Bill always rode his horse into town, and he was never seen without a long-barreled .45 Colt strapped to his hip.

One day, Bill was going up north for a week or so to visit his daughter and he asked his closest neighbor to watch his ranch while he was gone. "What should I do if I find anybody messin' around your place?" the neighbor asked Bill. Bill's reply was fairly typical of that age and generation. "Just shoot 'em," he said. And, by golly, he meant it. Like I said, that wasn't too long ago, and people at that time just accepted that type of behavior...at least in this part of the country.

I never met Colonel Askins, but have read some of what he wrote and some of what was written about him. I know many of his colleagues in the "outdoor writer" world had a few misgivings about him, but not knowing the man, I can't say. I think I can say, however, that he was definitely a product of his environment, which was pretty darn rough, to say the least.

I guess the bottom line is...I'm a little hesitant to say something derogatory about a guy when he's not there to take a swing at me if he's offended by the truth.:D
 
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He made money by selling books and magazine articles. People don't want to buy uninteresting reading material, and he says he did all these things but it was never anything he could be later charged with.

Heck, there are loudmouth guys at my gun club who have killed more men than he did, just ask em'. ....and all were shot right between the eyes!:)

+1 There are more retired smipers here where I live than have ever been in all the services combined!! Don't believe me just ask them! LOL Almost every time I go to one of my LGS I hear " I was a sniper in the military". Making claims that even they can't believe--I hope!!!

John
 
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