Charter Arms, quality?

[johnnyflake]

That's a sweet looking 45 Johnnyflake. I've been debating whether I should jump in and try a new Charter Arms. I've never owned or shot an older or newer model. But I have held and inspected a few new Undercover 38's and one Bulldog at a local gun store and they all seem well made. I couldn't put my finger on it. They sort of remind me of a Ruger and a RIA put together. From what I understand the man who started Charter Arms use to work for Ruger. That explains some of the similarities.

I guess the real question is why hasn't S&W ever put out a 44 Spl J frame??? I wouldn't be looking elsewhere if they offered it.

Actually the man who started up Charter Arms, worked for Ruger, Colt and Hi Standard. I previously owned two Charter Arms .44spls way back in the day. I really loved them back then and fired thousands of rounds between the. That's back when I first started reloading as well. When they first came out with the 9mm and then the .40cal only a short time later, I knew, in my mind, that they would come out with a .45acp, and they did!

I agree that the Charter Arms handguns, tend to remind you on another handgun. For me, They have always reminded me of Ruger Handguns.

S&W is not a very innovative company. They use to make great handguns, but never took any risk in their designs. Now, after all their missed opportunities, at some form of innovation, they remain very basic and they now only make good handguns.

 

[David R]

I have a Bulldog. I blew it up with some one elses handloads. Charter replaced it free of charge. See the thread "Bulldog Blowup" It IS accurate and fun to shoot. The factory grips had to go, then it stopped biting me. I think I got what I paid for and more.
Really wanting the 45 revolver.
David

Edit, here is the link to the thread. Its over a year ago. The Bulldog fits in most of my J frame holsters.

http://smith-wessonforum.com/firearms-knives-other-brands/404971-bulldog-blow-up.html

 

[sarg1c]

Bought wife a pathfinder in ss. She wanted a .22 about the same size as her Smith 637 airweight. Shoots great.

 

[BC38]

I just bought one of the classic 3" 44 special Bulldogs from the Bridgeport era the other day. Paid a whopping $185 OTD ($170.19 + tax).

Haven't shot it yet but it seems to lock up tight, timing seems good, no appreciable endshake and no pushoff, good bore, and a fairly light turn line. Seems like the quintessential (possibly) carried a lot shot a little revolver.. It is a bit finish challenged though. The bluing on the barrel is mottled looking with about half of it gone - almost like it got something spilled on it that stripped about half of it off. On the cylinder the bluing is pretty evenly faded all over.

Now for a question: does anyone know if the 2-1/2" barrel from the newer current version will swap with the 3" barrel on my older model? I like the idea of the 3" barrel, but I don't care for the looks of the "shark fin" front sight and the unshrouded ejector rod. I'd be OK with giving up 1/2" of barrel length to get a regular ramp-style front sight and an ejector rod shroud.

 

[CH4]

Tried a buddy's bulldog and was not impressed with the fit and finish, trigger pull or accuracy - I do like the concept. For the price, I'd look elsewhere. I'd gladly pay double for a 696. The bulldog is functional, but crude.

 

[BC38]

Tried a buddy's bulldog and was not impressed with the fit and finish, trigger pull or accuracy - I do like the concept. For the price, I'd look elsewhere. I'd gladly pay double for a 696. The bulldog is functional, but crude.

What version of the Bulldog does your buddy have?
As others have said there is a HUGE difference between the old ones produced in Bridgeport CT, that look like this

and the modern version produced in Shelton CT that looks like this.

I looked at a new stainless one like this the other day and there were actually pits and flaws in the barrel surface next to the roll marks!
And it was priced at $375 + tax! I wouldn't pay nearly $400 for one of those if I could use YOUR money to buy it - much less if I had to use mine!

On the other hand, the older one I bought for $185 the other day seems like a fairly decent gun.
Not a S&W for sure, but probably more comparable to a Taurus for fit and finish (not counting the damage to the finish of course).

 

[johnnyflake]

I don't know why it's so hard for people to understand, but Charter Arms Handguns are more accurately described as tools, than aesthetically pleasing works of art. They are strong, well made weapons/handguns, and they serve the intended purpose extremely well!

I have owned several over the years and just a month or so ago, I purchased a new Pitbul 5 shot .45acp 2 1/2" in SS. It is the nicest one of all, so far. This is a unique handgun, as it does not require Moon Clips of any kind.

All that I have owned, including my new one, shoot, shoot and just keep shooting. They fire every time and they are as accurate as you will ever need! Remember, on average they cost about 50%/60% less that a S&W.

 

[tayninh69]

I've owned a newer production CA 44 Spl for several years. No problems and nice enough revolver for it's price point. In fact, it's what I normally carry in a Simply Rugged silver dollar pancake holster, loaded with hand loaded low velocity 200 gr Gold Dots. Also picked up the no spur hammer as an alternative for pocket carry.

Does it have the smooth pull of a vintage Smith?......No, and neither does it have the price. Maybe just me, but I prefer to not carry an expensive firearm on the minute chance I may have to use it and it winds up in an evidence locker.

 

[BC38]

Just FYI in case anyone else was interested in the question about swapping barrels, I emailed Charter Arms directly. I figured that even though they weren't in the same location and don't have the same ownership, they should know the specs for the old guns as well as the new ones. Here's the answer I got...

No, sorry the new barrels will not work with the older Bulldog and are definitely not interchangeable. If you have a Bridgeport CT Bulldog, you have one of the very first of the model. (I wouldn't change a thing).

Diane "Dee" Ecker
Customer Service Manager
Charter Arms
18 Brewster Lane
Shelton CT 06484
203-922-1652
203-924-2861 (Fax)

She was also able to tell me that my SN dates from 1973.

 

[BC38]

Well, since a barrel swap isn't an option, I did a little Birchwood Casey cold blue (paste) finish repair after I got home from work. It's no deep carbonia blue finish, but then it never was on this gun

Here are a couple of pictures, before & after. Maybe not beautiful, but not nearly as ugly as it was either....

 

[Cocked & Locked]

Luck of the draw?

I bought a NIB 2.5 Stainless .44 Bulldog three weeks ago and I love it. Fit and finish doesn't compare to a S&W or Colt of course and for the price no need for it to.

Mine (thus far) functions fine, has no excessive cylinder end-shake or wobble, and lock up as tight as my Colts. Trigger pull is fine for a defensive revolver and accuracy surprised me...good enough for 2.5" lightweight snub.

The factory grips with finger grooves didn't fit my fingers. Replaced them with some vintage Bulldog walnut grips (as pictured). Those looked good but still weren't right for my hand. Replaced those with some Pachmayr Compact grips without the medallions...perfect for my hand.

IF S&W made a comparable light weight .44 snub I would want one...but they don't.

Keeping it loaded with Federal 200 grain Lead SWCHP's.

As an added bonus the BD fits fine in my Galco J-frame holsters.

 

[johnnyflake]

Well, since a barrel swap isn't an option, I did a little Birchwood Casey cold blue (paste) finish repair after I got home from work. It's no deep carbonia blue finish, but then it never was on this gun

Here are a couple of pictures, before & after. Maybe not beautiful, but not nearly as ugly as it was either....

Like you say it's not perfect but it is a serious improvement. I truly like and respect Charter Arms Handguns. Hell, the man that started it all was an engineer that first worked for S&W and then for Colt and lastly for Ruger before going out on his own!

 

[old tanker]

Good enough for who it's for...

I have had one of the early Bulldogs since 1978. I have been satisfied with mine. Can't say anything about the newer ones. As mentioned earlier, the screws like to loosen and pins like to walk, but routine maintenance and the judicious use of Loc-tite fixes most of that. The Pachmyars are a useful addition for me.

The fit and finish are OK. It will deliver hand size groups at 50 feet shooting factory Remingtons double action. It fits the same holsters as a 3 inch Detective Special.

Shooting it in IDPA matches would likely wear one out in short order. A steady diet of Elmer's .44 loads would quickly stretch things out. But if a defensive carry gun that will deliver five big soft bullets at moderate velocity fits the mission, it will do that!

If Smith made a 5 shot K-frame in .44 Special I would want one. Since they didn't, I bought the Bulldog.

 

[kaaskop49]

I have had one of the early Bulldogs since 1978. I have been satisfied with mine. Can't say anything about the newer ones. As mentioned earlier, the screws like to loosen and pins like to walk, but routine maintenance and the judicious use of Loc-tite fixes most of that. The Pachmyars are a useful addition for me.

The fit and finish are OK. It will deliver hand size groups at 50 feet shooting factory Remingtons double action. It fits the same holsters as a 3 inch Detective Special.

Shooting it in IDPA matches would likely wear one out in short order. A steady diet of Elmer's .44 loads would quickly stretch things out. But if a defensive carry gun that will deliver five big soft bullets at moderate velocity fits the mission, it will do that!

If Smith made a 5 shot K-frame in .44 Special I would want one. Since they didn't, I bought the Bulldog.

A very knowledgeable, sensible poster. I think a lot of damage was done to Charter's reputation by folks who wondered whether the Bulldog could "take the Keith handload," and then proceeded to try. IMO, the original Bulldog was perfect for the then-only .44 Special factory load with a 246gr RNL bullet. It is NPT something to shoot with, IIRC, a handload of 17.5gr 2400. YMMV.

Kaaskop49
Shield #5103

 

[johnnyflake]

Since we are on the topic of Charter Arms, does anyone know of a source for Bulldog & Pitbull Grips. My new Pitbull .45acp came with Pachmayr Grips, which are fine, however, I would like to put on some white grips, maybe Stagg or Ivory looking. I much prefer white color grips on a SS Gun.

 

[BC38]

Good enough for who it's for....

I don't believe it! I've never heard anyone but my dad and my paternal grandfather use that phrase!

They attributed it to an old hillbilly fella they knew when my dad was a kid in the 40's in rural Missouri.

I guess some of those old local colloquialisms must've crossed the state line into old Kaintuck, eh?

 

[old tanker]

...I guess some of those old local colloquialisms must've crossed the state line into old Kaintuck, eh?

I don't know if it came from Missouri or not, but I first heard from an old aircraft mechanic. The guy whose airplane he just fixed took it plumb personal. Not a bit put off, he gave him the bill, noting that he had included the customary 10% "a**hole surcharge."

He was a modest fellow, on a small grass strip, known to proclaim, "I may not be good, but I'm the best you're gonna find 'round here."

You have to admire the honesty in that!

 

[Mike@NDS]

If Smith made a 5 shot K-frame in .44 Special I would want one. Since they didn't, I bought the Bulldog.

I used to have a 396 Nightguard and it was too bulky for me.

Sold it for $$$ and got a Bulldog Classic 3" for $250 It serves my purposes much better as a knockabout trail gun.

I did some measuring and the O.D. of the Bulldog and K frame cylinders are almost identical.

They would have to change the yoke/ejector rod dimension to make it work.

 

[bronzojo]

If the original poster was looking at a new CharterArms. I would tell them straight up DONT BUY it. The modern day Charter arms have issues. I have seen them in classes where, the trigger had to be pulled a little bit before you could see the sights due to over sized hammer spur, cylinder release fell off after 25 or so rounds, cylinder locked up after a few shots. These were all different charter arms on different days.

 

[crazyphil]

My favorite gunsmith carries a Charter. I have 2. One old and one not
so old. Neither has ever missed a beat. Not as beautiful as Mrs. Smith
but not many are.