Chiefs Special 9mm
- Thread starter 18DAI
- Start date
While it is highly unlikely that any more 3rd gen guns will be made, it is equally unlikely that the quality would be the same if they were. They might resemble the original, but thats all. They would just be overpriced knock offs. No thanks! 
Im just glad that there are so many nice examples of the real deal out there. And with people avoiding them due to "...lack of spare parts!" and "..no manufacturer support!" the prices arent going up like they just a year or so ago.
Regards 18DAI
Im just glad that there are so many nice examples of the real deal out there. And with people avoiding them due to "...lack of spare parts!" and "..no manufacturer support!" the prices arent going up like they just a year or so ago.
Regards 18DAI
Jeppo
Member
I recognize the chances of revised metal guns are slim. However, I also recognize that S&W is battling declining demand, extremely aggressive competition AND excess manufacturing capacity. The excess capacity is mostly a function of selling fewer revolvers (that require much more labor) than in the past.
Actually, Smith's revolver business isn't enjoying the share it did in the past. Just last week they announced:
"And it comes down on consumer preferences, I mean six, seven years ago we would see for every one revolver that was sold here in the U.S. there were 3.5 polymer pistols sold. That number has increased to over six now. So, definitely consumer preferences have drifted away from revolvers."
If they want to keep their most skilled workers, they need to find ways to sell more labor-intensive products. Conditions for the company may be a bit different from when they last examined the possibility of revisiting the metal gun business.
As one of you pointed out...I'm not holding my breath.
Actually, Smith's revolver business isn't enjoying the share it did in the past. Just last week they announced:
"And it comes down on consumer preferences, I mean six, seven years ago we would see for every one revolver that was sold here in the U.S. there were 3.5 polymer pistols sold. That number has increased to over six now. So, definitely consumer preferences have drifted away from revolvers."
If they want to keep their most skilled workers, they need to find ways to sell more labor-intensive products. Conditions for the company may be a bit different from when they last examined the possibility of revisiting the metal gun business.
As one of you pointed out...I'm not holding my breath.
The last calendar year in which more revolvers than pistols were manufactured in the US was 1986. Since that time, more pistols have been annually manufactured than revolvers.
Some interesting numbers from the BATFE in its 2017 report. https://www.atf.gov/resource-center...tates-annual-statistical-update-2017/download
Nowadays it's not nearly as labor intensive to produce revolvers, either. From my notes in a revolver armorer class more than 10 years ago ...
It previously took 7 machines (and machine operators) to make a revolver hammer. Now they come out of a MIM mold and are much more precise.
Making the Old Model revolver frames required 75 machining steps (without the barrel), but the New Model revolver frames only require 3 machining steps, and then they're off to heat treat.
Handgun (and other) production occurs in "cells", with small groups of assemblers (and fitters, for some revolvers), and production is much more efficient and streamlined than in earlier years.
Another guy at the factory once told me that there was a significant improvement in revolver production when the factory decided it was time to tighten the normal manufacturing tolerances of critical revolver parts to a much tighter tolerance range (based upon analyzing Performance Center specs and production), than used to be possible in the older hand-fitted revolver production. He used to be in revolver production in the 70's, and then doing custom work (before moving over to the then-new Auto Improvement Program - AIP - during the end of the 2nd gen pistol production). He said the older revolvers pretty much had to be hand-fitted to get them to work with the older production parts and tolerances.
Now, personally, IF (hypothetically speaking) the company were to reinvigorate the 3rd gen pistols and begin even limited production again, I'd not be surprised to find that their ever improving cutting edge manufacturing methods would probably allow them to simplify some of the steps. While the sear release lever would probably still require some hand-fitting/gauging, the tolerances for slides and extractors might (might) reach the point where they no longer required hand-fitting.
I say that because in my last 3rd gen recert I came across a late production 5906TSW training gun in which an extractor dropped in the slide and was within good spec, without any filing/fitting. The instructor said that he'd seen that happen only a couple times, but that they were in another recent class. He speculated that the improvements in manufacturing tolerances were reaching the point where specs were becoming more precise.
It was shortly afterward when we were told in one of our M&P pistols recerts that armorers were no longer being required to buy an extractor bar gauge for the .40/357 guns, because the factory had determined the newest guns were precisely enough made that the extractors were dropping in.
As a matter of fact, when I'd previously repeatedly called and asked if they'd made an extractor block gauge for the 9/.45 M&P's (because I like to have armorer tools ), they kept telling me they didn't consider it necessary for those calibers. 
They said the extractors and slides were being made to such close tolerances that the extractors were dropping it (like everyone else's plastic guns).
So, maybe if they ever did decide to make some 3rd gen's, we'd see them undergo yet another revision and improvement in manufacturing.
Don't hold your breath, though. (But, as is easily said with S&W, in general ... never say never, because they change their minds all the time.)
Some interesting numbers from the BATFE in its 2017 report. https://www.atf.gov/resource-center...tates-annual-statistical-update-2017/download
Nowadays it's not nearly as labor intensive to produce revolvers, either. From my notes in a revolver armorer class more than 10 years ago ...
It previously took 7 machines (and machine operators) to make a revolver hammer. Now they come out of a MIM mold and are much more precise.
Making the Old Model revolver frames required 75 machining steps (without the barrel), but the New Model revolver frames only require 3 machining steps, and then they're off to heat treat.
Handgun (and other) production occurs in "cells", with small groups of assemblers (and fitters, for some revolvers), and production is much more efficient and streamlined than in earlier years.
Another guy at the factory once told me that there was a significant improvement in revolver production when the factory decided it was time to tighten the normal manufacturing tolerances of critical revolver parts to a much tighter tolerance range (based upon analyzing Performance Center specs and production), than used to be possible in the older hand-fitted revolver production. He used to be in revolver production in the 70's, and then doing custom work (before moving over to the then-new Auto Improvement Program - AIP - during the end of the 2nd gen pistol production). He said the older revolvers pretty much had to be hand-fitted to get them to work with the older production parts and tolerances.
Now, personally, IF (hypothetically speaking) the company were to reinvigorate the 3rd gen pistols and begin even limited production again, I'd not be surprised to find that their ever improving cutting edge manufacturing methods would probably allow them to simplify some of the steps. While the sear release lever would probably still require some hand-fitting/gauging, the tolerances for slides and extractors might (might) reach the point where they no longer required hand-fitting.
I say that because in my last 3rd gen recert I came across a late production 5906TSW training gun in which an extractor dropped in the slide and was within good spec, without any filing/fitting. The instructor said that he'd seen that happen only a couple times, but that they were in another recent class. He speculated that the improvements in manufacturing tolerances were reaching the point where specs were becoming more precise.
It was shortly afterward when we were told in one of our M&P pistols recerts that armorers were no longer being required to buy an extractor bar gauge for the .40/357 guns, because the factory had determined the newest guns were precisely enough made that the extractors were dropping in.
As a matter of fact, when I'd previously repeatedly called and asked if they'd made an extractor block gauge for the 9/.45 M&P's (because I like to have armorer tools
), they kept telling me they didn't consider it necessary for those calibers. They said the extractors and slides were being made to such close tolerances that the extractors were dropping it (like everyone else's plastic guns).So, maybe if they ever did decide to make some 3rd gen's, we'd see them undergo yet another revision and improvement in manufacturing.
Don't hold your breath, though. (But, as is easily said with S&W, in general ... never say never, because they change their minds all the time.)
Great thread!! I have a question for all of you CS9 guys and I have trouble with the search feature not working on Tapatalk. Anyways what are you guys doing for guide rods these days? Modifying 2nd gen guide rods or purchasing them from somewhere? I've spent too much time trying to figure this out already. Sorry if this is a bit off topic
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If you cannot locate an actual guide rod for the CS9, cutting down a 457 guide rod will also work (and last I saw, Midway had them in stock for about $11). A CS45/CS40 guide rod or a 4040PD guide rod are also good but need to be cut down as well.
Thanks! Have you ever tried putting a 3913 slide on a CS9? I have a lead on a full slide for cheap, and was thinking to try it
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The frame of a CS9 is too short and leaves a gap between the front of the frame and the bottom lug of the 3913 slide, so for me that is a no-go.
Thanks again, I figured as much. Might buy it anyways since it's just too pretty
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I finally got to wring out my Stainless CS9 today. Ate about 125 rounds of mixed ammo with 100% reliability. Fairly accurate little piece too.
Felt good with the TercGen grip and flat 3913TSW mag baseplate on. Its going to be my new summer carry gun. So light, small and flat its like not carrying a gun. Great pistol! Regards 18DAI
Felt good with the TercGen grip and flat 3913TSW mag baseplate on. Its going to be my new summer carry gun. So light, small and flat its like not carrying a gun. Great pistol! Regards 18DAI
Jeppo
Member
You also got to prove that the performance of my CS9 is thanks to the user, not the gun; giving new emphasis to my credo,
If you can't hit the target...
get a bigger target.
Thanks for everything today Jeppo! Enjoyed talking to you and shooting with you!
Those little guns are just harder to shoot well. I always have to focus on all the basics when shooting them.
You are a good shot. I wouldnt want you shooting at me, especially with that P30!
The Chiefs Special just takes a little getting use to and a bunch of practice. Just like the J-frames that preceded them. Thanks again! Regards 18DAI
Those little guns are just harder to shoot well. I always have to focus on all the basics when shooting them.
You are a good shot. I wouldnt want you shooting at me, especially with that P30!
The Chiefs Special just takes a little getting use to and a bunch of practice. Just like the J-frames that preceded them. Thanks again!
Regards 18DAI
Tell me I don't need this:
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/778709238
The seller lives in my town and it would be an all too easy transaction.
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/778709238
The seller lives in my town and it would be an all too easy transaction.
Jeppo
Member
I'm going to make the most generous offer of my life that will save you at least $500.
Send me $100 and I'll make that gun disappear.
The CS9 in the linked pic appears to be one the later production models (like mine).
The price is what it is, because it's not like they're making any more of them.
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Offer him $600 cash to end the listing and go get it
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nocents
Member
Wow!!!
Nice gun for sure, but that is a boatload of money. 
And that's especially true after adding in shipping & transfer fees. Hmmm. I think I better call my insurance agent tomorrow and have him raise the limit on my firearms coverage.
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