Buy a chronograph. The only way you will ever regret it is if you waste
your money on a Chrony brand.
your money on a Chrony brand.
Chronograph - worth the cost?
- Thread starter Double-O-Dave
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Chony's are relatively inexpensive and when you start using one it will open up a new world of reality regarding what posted velocities are suppose to be and what they will really are from real guns!
You guys have seen me here touting Buffalo Bore ammo all the time...... until I actually chronographed other Factory loads and saw how slow they really were out of my actual guns I did not know how good the BB's really were. It is also great if you are a reloader. Remember, there are lots of manuals and websites with loading data, but there is nothing like actually seeing what you are producing and shooting out of your own guns. Well worth the coin IMHO!
You guys have seen me here touting Buffalo Bore ammo all the time...... until I actually chronographed other Factory loads and saw how slow they really were out of my actual guns I did not know how good the BB's really were. It is also great if you are a reloader. Remember, there are lots of manuals and websites with loading data, but there is nothing like actually seeing what you are producing and shooting out of your own guns. Well worth the coin IMHO!
forestswin
Member
I was working up some 38 Special loads comparing accuracy and velocity when I started getting strange (large) differences in speed. After some more testing I isolated the difference to powder position. Powder toward the front of the case resulted in 100-150fps slower than powder at the back of the case.
Here's an example of some data I collected yesterday for my Model 10 with a variety of loads.
data
Here's my setup for test. The chrono is a ProChrono Digital
Good job - I like posts like this.
Note - I've been advised here and read elsewhere you need at least 10 shots for a meaningful SD computation.
Fishstyx
Member
This is true, but it I did it anyway
I have some .223 loads for my AR that I'll be testing this weekend and I have 20 of each, 10 for chrono and 10 for 100yd accuracy test. Unfortunately our range slopes down so I can't chrono at the 100 yd distance.
Also, unless you have the range to yourself, a remote box that allows you to see data and control the chorno (string change for example) is critical. Otherwise you're either waiting for target checks or trying to read the velocities real time as you shoot everything through a singe string.
PS, my Prochrono Digital (in the lighting conditions you see in the pic) hasn't missed a single shot, be it 38 at 650fps or 17HMR at 2550.
PPS, One other piece of advice. Work our your shooting plan ahead of time and have it on paper, with the ammo strings clearly organized so all you have to do is load, shoot and record. I had a paper copy of that spreadsheet at the bench so I filled in the speed of each shot real time. I also organized my ammo by simple numbered group (instead of writing all the details for each load) that corresponded with the group number on the test plan.
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jepp2
Member
I have great value for mine. Use it more for rifle than handgun. When you see a load running faster than the book load it is a good indication your maximum load may be below the max load listed in the book.
Some tips I picked up before I started using mine. Most would apply regardless what chrono you use.
- always set it up the same distance from the muzzle. For rifle I set mine up 15 feet from the muzzle to the first sensor. To make setup easier I have a cord marked at 1 ft. intervals. I just attach the loop to the rest and extend it.
- I put a bubble level inside mine, to make leveling easier.
- I replaced the metal rods with wood. If you happen to shoot one it doesn't hurt anything. I also marked the region I want the bullet to pass through on the rods. Again to make setup quicker.
- I use a cheap Bushnell laser bore sighter to position the chrono. First I put the rifle in the rest with the scope on the target. Then the laser makes it easy to position the chrono in the correct location and height. For safety, I put a chamber flag in the breech when the laser is in the barrel.
- Low sun angles can cause any chrono to miss the shadow of the bullet. I have a shade I use on the sunny side. Keeps mine reading early in the morning when I used to miss a reading.
- mine has a printer that at the end of each string I print off the individual velocities, high, low, avg, ES, and St Dev. I can just attach that to the target when I finish. Makes a nice record.
My Chrony has been outstanding. I normally shoot with clear blue CO skies and these are potentially the more difficult conditions for any chrono. What it looks like in action:
[URL=http://s860.photobucket.com/user/jepp2/media/P1000852_zpsfcd8bfe6.jpg.html]
[/URL]
Some tips I picked up before I started using mine. Most would apply regardless what chrono you use.
- always set it up the same distance from the muzzle. For rifle I set mine up 15 feet from the muzzle to the first sensor. To make setup easier I have a cord marked at 1 ft. intervals. I just attach the loop to the rest and extend it.
- I put a bubble level inside mine, to make leveling easier.
- I replaced the metal rods with wood. If you happen to shoot one it doesn't hurt anything. I also marked the region I want the bullet to pass through on the rods. Again to make setup quicker.
- I use a cheap Bushnell laser bore sighter to position the chrono. First I put the rifle in the rest with the scope on the target. Then the laser makes it easy to position the chrono in the correct location and height. For safety, I put a chamber flag in the breech when the laser is in the barrel.
- Low sun angles can cause any chrono to miss the shadow of the bullet. I have a shade I use on the sunny side. Keeps mine reading early in the morning when I used to miss a reading.
- mine has a printer that at the end of each string I print off the individual velocities, high, low, avg, ES, and St Dev. I can just attach that to the target when I finish. Makes a nice record.
My Chrony has been outstanding. I normally shoot with clear blue CO skies and these are potentially the more difficult conditions for any chrono. What it looks like in action:
[URL=http://s860.photobucket.com/user/jepp2/media/P1000852_zpsfcd8bfe6.jpg.html]
[/URL]Yes, get the chronograph. Like you I loaded for almost 30 years before I bought my chrony. Glad I got it. Without a chronograph your guessing at your velocity. An educated guess perhaps but it's still a guess.
NorthWoods1900
Member
As long as you STICK TO PUBLISHED DATA, you don't need a chronograph for a pistol. You should chrono your rifle ammo (both factory as well as reload) to determine if you have pressure/velocity issues. I own a Chrony and don't like. The sky screens are a nuisance to deploy and they often pop out. Also they can be erratic in changing lighting conditions. Unfortunately there are no other practical choices.
Oh so sorry but you are very much mistaken. Almost all of my
reloading is for pistols and I have owned a chronograph since
1986. Checking factory ammo, barrel length effect, extreme
spread, comparing powders and different guns with the same
load, primer effect, bullet effect. The list of reasons for using
a chronograph for pistol loads is way too long to list here.
As to published data; the velocities obtained from pressure
barrels and listed in manuals often have little relevance to
real pistols used by reloaders. Also there is a practical
alternative to the Chrony, the $100.00 Competition
Electronics Digital. A much better product.
Kilibreaux
Member
If you roll your own a chronograph extends your acquisition of knowledge about the loads. If you don't load a chrono allows you to validate published data with your gun. With a chrono you can ascertain whether your hand loads achieve desired spec and so avoid pushing charges up needlessly.
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I loaded for ~30 years without one. I shot good groups, killed game and competed well without issue. I didn't break down and get a chronograph until I started seriously shooting long range rifle. You have to know your velocities to calculate your drop tables and as someone noted above, you can get wicked drop changes from velocity variation. It also allows you to figure out what the actual drop is for a given bullet vs calculated drops from the bullet manufacturers data.
A type that has the works separate from the sky screens is a real good idea. It took me 11 years to whack a screen, but replacing the screen was a lot cheaper than replacing the whole unit.
Don't get too obsessive about exact velocities, the consumer grade units simply don't have either good enough 'clocks', sufficient distance between screens and uniform enough bullet paths for exact repeatability.
One of the fun things about the chronograph was figuring out how good a ballistic pendulum I have from back in the olde days was. I'd worked out a conversion that let me figure velocity from relative momentum factors. The answer was pretty darn close.
A type that has the works separate from the sky screens is a real good idea. It took me 11 years to whack a screen, but replacing the screen was a lot cheaper than replacing the whole unit.
Don't get too obsessive about exact velocities, the consumer grade units simply don't have either good enough 'clocks', sufficient distance between screens and uniform enough bullet paths for exact repeatability.
One of the fun things about the chronograph was figuring out how good a ballistic pendulum I have from back in the olde days was. I'd worked out a conversion that let me figure velocity from relative momentum factors. The answer was pretty darn close.
10 Spot Terminator
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I have owned the very same unit you are considering for over 12 years now and with the exception of having to replace the sky screens once as are prone to cracking from constatntly taking them apart and putting them back together . It has been a decent tool as long as you stay within its operating ranges with respect to light and shadows as stated in the manual . I could not have developed the loads for the mumerous firearms I have loaded for over the years with the results I was able to obtain without it . It can tell you so much about loads as you work them up that you otherwise would only be making calculated adjustments based on bullet groups alone .
some of the things it will help you cypher is the differences that effect consistant performance such as primers, amount of crimp , lead alloys of different hardness in a given bullet , the lubes associated with cast bullets , when pressures start to exceede the limits of a lead alloy in cast bullets , performance difference at different temperature extremes with a given powder just to name a few .
For those who consider using bullets that are moly coated a chrony is a definite necessity as pressures are reduced using moly and the chrony will take you back to acceptable pressure levels based on your velocity results .
All bullets be they jacketed, hollow pointed or cast have an optimum performance range in relation to velocity . As all firearms tend to shoot a given load with varying results insofar as velocity goes a chrony here is invaluable . Posted speeds in all loading manuals come as a refferance only and only give you a general idea of potential velocities obtained with the VERY SPECIFIC test equipment as well as the bullet they used in their load workup . Many have been the times I worked up a load using the same components as well as barrel length and twist rate to have my loads vary by as much as 200 fps ( usually slower ) and fall low or under velocity needed for proper hollowpoint performance in pistol loads . Without a chrony I would never have known . Changing powders most often found the performance I was looking for but here again I never would have known were it not for the chrony . The reverse would be true of over driving hunting bullets in rifles where the bullets would tend to come apart and not retain enough of the bullet weight to do a good job . Faster isnt always better and again the chrony is a good tool to have on hand to help you work though this without having to shoot up so much of those hard to come by components .
10 Spot
some of the things it will help you cypher is the differences that effect consistant performance such as primers, amount of crimp , lead alloys of different hardness in a given bullet , the lubes associated with cast bullets , when pressures start to exceede the limits of a lead alloy in cast bullets , performance difference at different temperature extremes with a given powder just to name a few .
For those who consider using bullets that are moly coated a chrony is a definite necessity as pressures are reduced using moly and the chrony will take you back to acceptable pressure levels based on your velocity results .
All bullets be they jacketed, hollow pointed or cast have an optimum performance range in relation to velocity . As all firearms tend to shoot a given load with varying results insofar as velocity goes a chrony here is invaluable . Posted speeds in all loading manuals come as a refferance only and only give you a general idea of potential velocities obtained with the VERY SPECIFIC test equipment as well as the bullet they used in their load workup . Many have been the times I worked up a load using the same components as well as barrel length and twist rate to have my loads vary by as much as 200 fps ( usually slower ) and fall low or under velocity needed for proper hollowpoint performance in pistol loads . Without a chrony I would never have known . Changing powders most often found the performance I was looking for but here again I never would have known were it not for the chrony . The reverse would be true of over driving hunting bullets in rifles where the bullets would tend to come apart and not retain enough of the bullet weight to do a good job . Faster isnt always better and again the chrony is a good tool to have on hand to help you work though this without having to shoot up so much of those hard to come by components .
10 Spot
After reading these and other comments
I don't doubt the value of chronographs to reloaders, but I'm really wary of the reviews I read. It seems they are a 50/50 propositioons. For every person that says they are the cat's meow, there is somebody saying that they don't work.
Two factors are that today instructions are terrible and many people don't read them anyway.
I don't doubt the value of chronographs to reloaders, but I'm really wary of the reviews I read. It seems they are a 50/50 propositioons. For every person that says they are the cat's meow, there is somebody saying that they don't work.
Two factors are that today instructions are terrible and many people don't read them anyway.
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DavidC
Member
I have the Chrony Master Alpha and the only problems I have encountered are shooting to fast (auto) - takes a few seconds between shoots & as others have reported, the plastic sun screens have a tendency to crack/break from all the bending.
Mine has had no problems reading my pistol or rifle shots (provided I shot the autos a bit slower).
I like mine and would easily recommend Chrony as a good buy.
Mine has had no problems reading my pistol or rifle shots (provided I shot the autos a bit slower).
I like mine and would easily recommend Chrony as a good buy.
My rule for that is simple. I'll chrono your rounds in your gun for you...but I get to shoot at least one at paper (not over the chrony) first to make sure where the gun hits.
Smokin' Iron
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Chronographs are very useful for reloading.
Just don't make the mistake I did in buying a Pact Professional XP chronograph. It is the piece of trash that I measure other trash by.
Just don't make the mistake I did in buying a Pact Professional XP chronograph. It is the piece of trash that I measure other trash by.
When I started reloading I wanted "HOT & FAST"..........
45 years later I want to find plinkers and minimum loads.
You can't develop a 12Ga. 7/8oz load at only 1150fps
a 38 spl. 125gr lead bullet X-Lite target load at 582fps
with only 1.98 ft/lbs of recoil, lighter than a std. 148 wad cutter.......
or a little 100gr out of a 30-06 that hits 1600 fps that an 9 year old
can use to shoot 50 yard targets.
These loads are not in loading manuals.
I may use it but mostly so my family and grandchildren can also enjoy shooting.
45 years later I want to find plinkers and minimum loads.
You can't develop a 12Ga. 7/8oz load at only 1150fps
a 38 spl. 125gr lead bullet X-Lite target load at 582fps
with only 1.98 ft/lbs of recoil, lighter than a std. 148 wad cutter.......
or a little 100gr out of a 30-06 that hits 1600 fps that an 9 year old
can use to shoot 50 yard targets.
These loads are not in loading manuals.
I may use it but mostly so my family and grandchildren can also enjoy shooting.
flintsghost
Member
Some people swear by them. Others swear at them. Others have been loading successfully for years without them, working up each load for maximum accuracy. I've had two chrono's and ended up selling them both and going back to my old tried and true methods since I don't change loads once developed for accuracy and used in the field.
I see someone else thinks like I do.
I shoot in ICORE competitions. I needed to know if my loads would make the power factor. The $100 or so I spent on a chronograph was paid back to me in peace of mind. I now know just what my loads are doing in my guns.
I also think it adds to the reloading hobby in a fun way. It's really nice to see the actual results instead of just guessing using someone's data.
I also think it adds to the reloading hobby in a fun way. It's really nice to see the actual results instead of just guessing using someone's data.
DavidC
Member
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