Civilain Ammo

[poordevil]

Ok. We are familiar with the FBI protocols for LEO ammo. But what about Civilian ammo? By that I mean, we as civilian's, if involved in a shooting, will be closer to the bad guy, usually, and not have things like car doors and windshield glass or brick walls, etc. to overcome.

Do we need the kind of ammo that will go 12 to 18" in gel. + car glass or will some of the more extreme velosity ammo like Magsafe and Glasser be good, ok or even better. If it is bad, why. I have done a lot of shooting with the Glasser over many years and think it would do the trick. It has held up being shot through a metal fuese box door and then blasting apart a gallon jug of water(I know, water jugs aint people).

So to sumerize, do civilian's need the same ammo as cops or can we get by with less agressive type ammo.

Pat

 

[JJEH]

I honestly cannot really follow you right now...

Manufacturers are providing charts which showing velocity, energy as well as trajectory. So you can compare and choose the right product for you and your needs.

And IMO we all need good ammo, because criminals might wearing body armor while breaking into your house...

 

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

I'm probably missing something. I thought that, by and large, neither cops nor non-cops carried ammo that was good enough to defeat brick walls and body armor, and that windshield glass was a **** shoot, depending at least on the angle at which it was struck. Furthermore, both are looking for vaguely the same thing - a bullet which will reliably expand, but still penetrate 13" or so of flesh or similar test medium, even after passing through enough outerware to clog up some HP designs. How this accounts for bones in the body, I have no idea.

I'm not sure what "aggressive" means in relation to ammo. If it means excessive penetration, cops, or their bosses, or both, are probably against it. We should be, too, to about the same extent and for exactly the same reasons.

 

[OFT II]

Don't you want to have the same chance that a LEO has of stopping the problem as quickly and surely as he has?

 

[poordevil]

I brought up the topic as a reason to visit and listen to others ideas.

I carry 110gr +p+ in my m 36 and 642. I carry 230gr +p ranger ammo in my Colt 45 auto. In my m 37 I carry Glasser and I have .357 mag and .44spl. glasser along with some Magsafe in .45 auto and .44 spl.

I would think a Civilian shooting a bad guy beyond 30 feet in ones home and beyond off the muzzle while out on the street would have some 'Splaning to do.

Alot of folks here have .357mags yet say they carry .38 special ...a less powerful load. Or carry standard pressure .38 spl and not +p...a less power load.

So its just a question and not an advocating of less powerful ammo. Sorry if I worded it badly.

P

 

[Cerberus62]

I brought up the topic as a reason to visit and listen to others ideas.

Sorry if I worded it badly.

P

You didn't word it badly, you started from the wrong point of reference, and many people make the same mistake.

You are trying to pick a load for the shot you plan to take, not the shot the bad guy might present to you.

There are all kinds of situations where you may need to penetrate wood, metal or glass barriers or cover.

1) Bad guy behind a wood or metal door.

2) BG under your kitchen table or behind cabinets.

3) BG shooting from behind your car in your garage.

4) You stuck in your car while a BG comes at you and you have to shoot through your own windshield.

5) BG trying to force his way into your locked room and you have to shoot through door or wall to get to him.

6) Distance, if an attacker is rushing you or you must fire in defense of someone else being attacked some distance away from you, or if you must shoot to stop someone who is on their way to hurt someone else.

Every one of those examples has real life civilian stories of clean shootings behind them.

You can pick your gun and load, but usually cannot pick your shot.

Plan for the worst shot you may have to take.

 

[vipermd]

"Plan for the worst shot you may have to take." Cerberus62 said it best. I have seen 25 autos kill with a single shot, while 38 + 9's punched holes. Seen numerous 32 auto's slide around under the scalp. I was shown a bullet, Rem 180 saber, 40 sw, that went through a thin nylon collar on a dog, through the skin of it's neck and stopped on the skin on the opposite site. 1 petal moved slightly, otherwise the bullet was intact. Dog was fine , put on ABX, LEO was fine,hopefully the dept sent the rest of the loads back to remington. I have not seen a "perfect load" in any cal short of 50 BMG. Shot placement, bullet performance, bad guy reaction, all may vary. I use Old ranger ( black bullet ) 165 in the Sigma, 135 gr +p short bbl gold dot in 638, my wife uses 230gr +p Old ranger ( black bullet) in her colt officer's model. In water jugs, paper, gelatin they all look good, I hope I never have to find out. Be Safe,

 

[budrichard]

Your chances of being car jacked could be high depending one where you live. Winter clothing is also depending on location and season. I would not want ammunition like Glaser for these situations.
I carry bonded for the first few rounds to shoot through vehicle glass. There are a couple of videos on You Tube showing the results. I fail to see the difference between what an FBI Special Agent would encounter or myself other than frequency and probability of occurance.-Dick

 

[StatesRightist]

FYI....you need to revisit Magsafes and Glazers, Google them and read the info from someplace other than a few gun forums. Both rounds cause spectacular flesh wounds and absolutely fail to cause enough damage to stop a person intent on harming you.

Kinetic energy/"temporary wound" channels are a product of someone's imagination. CNS shots, organ damage and blood loss are what stops the BG. Even the latter of those three probably will not be fast enough to affect the outcome of a shooting scenario.

Your other choices sound like good ones, if those 110's are DPX/Copper etc, otherwise you may want to rethink the .38 choice. Again, Google it for yourself, the info's there.

One other thought, the whole I won't need this ammo, item etc approach is flawed, Life/SD scenarios are predictable in that they are unpredictable and fluid, the words never/won't have gotten many good men killed.

JMO.