Clark Custom Model 19-2

[Green Frog]

If you can't get $500 worth of enjoyment out of that gun, s3dcor, I think I can say without fear of contradiction that you will have zero difficulty finding a buyer who will give you your money back with maybe even a bit of profit!

Thirty plus years ago there were a couple if informal PPC leagues around here and I was fortunate enough to purchase a full house PPC gun by the less known Fred Schmidt. I say less known, but his patented short cylinder guns (for flush seated wad cutters only, with no "jump") was as accurate as anybody's.

Anyway, as bottom stuffers took over as service weapons for LEOs, the PPC game as we played it sort of faded. I will mention that these highly modified guns were used for other games such as steel plate matches, bowling pin matches, etc, but the push to automatics, at least around here, was too strong and the revolvers faded. I sold mine to someone who had known Fred and wanted it for his collection.

Froggie

 

[RetCapt]

Let me try to put some perspective on the collector (who values originality above all else) vs the shooter (who values function above all else), and the factor of time. Back in the 60s and 70s, when we were coming up with revolvers to have modified for PPC use, these now collectible survivors were just revolvers that we carried in our holsters. Most of us valued our revolvers highly and took excellent care of them. But they had a purpose, so they were carried regardless of environment, and were shot, often monthly, for training and qualification. We did not then look at them as future survivors and collectibles. When we wanted a PPC revolver we selected the base from what was available, with no thought given to the future value (or lack of) of our PPC revolver relative to what the value of the base gun would have been if not modified. Any critical appraisal of a PPC revolver should be done with an understanding of that context. I am never going to sell any of my firearms. So value is immaterial to me. As I said in my original post, at the time, these PPC revolvers were the pinnacle of a competition gun for this discipline. If properly maintained, they are still great shooters. Mine still are. Given the situation with the firearms themselves, the enjoyment of the matches, and the overall great memories of those times, the cost was a bargain. I would not trade it for anything. That is what goes through my mind when I look at my PPC revolver. That, to me, is something of value.

 

[Jeromejr]

I still have a Clark colt 1911 made 1964. I used to put them all in the black at 25 yds.

 

[Narragansett]

OP here. Thanks for the comments, they have been interesting. Like Newtons 4th law on buying guns, we all have a reaction, not always equal. Newton would be rolling his eyes right now at my misquote.

I have a few S&W's and favor the post WWII guns. The prices on a 19-2 are stupid these days. I paid $500 for this one and appreciate it for it's design and craftsmanship. I will get some wadcutters and shoot it some day. For a paper hole puncher I bet it will be spectacular.

And I really do like it!

I used Winchester full wadcutter mid range match ammo. Think I still have a few boxes in an ammo can. The one I posted was built on a 15-3 that was my duty gun, but then I changed to a 4" M65. I don't suppose I paid more than 115 for the 15 new. I know the 65 was 135 ( first day they hit the shelf ). All the work that was done to mine was 100.00 even. I just wish sometimes I had gotten a used shooter to do this and not used my fine condition M15. However, I have the rosewood targets still, and they are on a mint 15

 

[waffles]

PPC guns are going up. I occasionally shoot with a friend who got into collecting King/similar modified colts and smiths a couple years before the rest of em, when they were still cheap, and a few times we discussed our opinions on what would go next.

I said PPC guns. This was at a time when nobody shot PPC, and the guns were $200-400 all day long. I was right! Now obviously, with such foresight, I bought and held onto all manner of high end makers guns, right?

No. I'm an idiot. I bought Boozer (carved into the grips) for $190.

 

[stansdds]

No. I'm an idiot. I bought Boozer (carved into the grips) for $190.

Ehhhhh... not the sort of nickname I would want.

 

[Narragansett]

PPC guns are going up. I occasionally shoot with a friend who got into collecting King/similar modified colts and smiths a couple years before the rest of em, when they were still cheap, and a few times we discussed our opinions on what would go next.

I said PPC guns. This was at a time when nobody shot PPC, and the guns were $200-400 all day long. I was right! Now obviously, with such foresight, I bought and held onto all manner of high end makers guns, right?

No. I'm an idiot. I bought Boozer (carved into the grips) for $190.

I like that, what is it built on?

 

[RYANS]

I bought a beautiful Bill Davis PPC revolver built on a model 64 on this site about 6 months ago since I shoot PPC. I wanted Aristocrat 3 position sights and did not want the hammer bobbed......Its a beautiful well built custom revolver and will shoot a ragged hole at 15yds on a full cylindet of 38 wadcutter. Ive shot it once before 38s went thru the roof so now its too expensive to shoot @ 60c rd......Im really happy with it... and I got it at a great price..

 

[67ray]

A little embarrassed to say I don't know what PPC is . . . what type of shooting is it?

 

[Protocall_Design]

Police Pistol Combat. It uses the B-27 silhouette target and was about the only other pistol match besides Bullseye back when the dinosaurs were becoming extinct. Most police departments used that target to qualify and train on, and many departments had shooting teams that would have matches between the locals, and the good ones went to the Nationals. PPC is mainly a revolver sport, although autos can compete in it too. PPC kind of faded out after everyone switched to semi-autos for the police departments.

Now there are many different kinds of pistol matches. Most of them are shot with semi-auto pistols.

 

[waffles]

A little embarrassed to say I don't know what PPC is . . . what type of shooting is it?

It's an older shooting sport, "police pistol combat "

 

[waffles]

I like that, what is it built on?

I believe it was a 10-5.

 

[vinn]

Clark mod. on a 70 series, new target mod.

my clark has his name on the under side of the slide. it was modified to shoot .38 "wad cuters ammo, the owner had all the original parts that were removed for a "pin gun". SO, i have a target model, like new, and original adjusted rear sights.

 

[Texjack]

I think that Clark 19 is amazing! Personally, I would prefer it over a LNIB unfired 19. I would fit a target hammer with minimum single action weight. What a shooter that would be!

 

[MarTay6]

I was a Bullseye shooter on a Navy pistol team in the early '70's, and back then, Clark sat right next to God. If'in any of you want to clear your collection of any of that cheap Clark stuff, PM me... I'll be glad to take it off your hands!

 

[Green Frog]

I bought a beautiful Bill Davis PPC revolver built on a model 64 on this site about 6 months ago since I shoot PPC. I wanted Aristocrat 3 position sights and did not want the hammer bobbed......Its a beautiful well built custom revolver and will shoot a ragged hole at 15yds on a full cylindet of 38 wadcutter. Ive shot it once before 38s went thru the roof so now its too expensive to shoot @ 60c rd......Im really happy with it... and I got it at a great price..

You just have to do what the police departments did back in the day… reload! As soon as the artificially high price of primers comes back to sane levels you'll find that you can shoot quite economically, probably cheaper than the greens fees at your local golf course or lift fees at the ski resort. The old Star Progressive presses were pretty pricey even "way back when" but Dillon made progressive reloading for the masses a reality.

Primers should get back to about $.04 ea, and swaged lead HBWCs at most about $.06, so with the most expensive powders still only costing a couple of cents a round and brass being infinitely reusable with these loads, you're looking at shooting for about 1/4 the price you mention.

I can remember thinking $.15 per round was high, but today that would be pretty cheap shooting.

Froggie

 

[Jim Watson]

A little embarrassed to say I don't know what PPC is . . . what type of shooting is it?

PPC - It used to be the Practical Police Course back in the 1930s when the FBI designed it as more duty oriented than NRA style bullseye shooting.

The B27 target is the old Colt Police KD humanoid target but with the scoring rings of the ISU rapid fire target. The Ten ring is an oval 4"x6".

Ranges are from 7 to 50 yards. In the old days (before my time in the 1970s) you would be required to shoot from the hip at 7 yards and expected to fire "point shoulder" at 15 yards. Reloads are on the clock but while the time limits sound generous, ammo was carried in belt loops or dump pouches before speed loaders were developed.

Techniques and equipment evolved. The Match gun is as you see here a heavy barreled .38 with big bold sight rib, drawn from an open front holster and fed with speedloaders. All shots at all ranges are aimed and all shots are fired double action, even at 50 yards.

The Distinguished Revolver must have factory barrel and sights, the Service Revolver must have a 4" barrel. There was once a division that allowed any sight and barrel up to 4", leading to guns like Boozer.

And now, of course, there are corresponding divisions for automatics, with guns like the Model 52 and PPC 9 avidly sought.

 

[Erocksmash]

So who can still make these? I've got a 686 ND I've grown bord with maybe a possible candidate?

 

[bluetopper]

Here's my model 27-2. The 300 Gun Shop in Colorado done the work on it.

 

[Taj]

Depends on the buyer. Lots of sellers think they should command big bucks because they are "custom". A bullseye shooter may covet one, but as a collector I wouldn't look twice at one. Some classic guns have had their value ruined by these conversions.

The guy that had it built to compete wouldn't consider it ruined. If you wanted to be competitive in the PPC game you have to have a wheel gun like this. "Ruining" a revolver is no worse than the thousand of early 1911's that guys put sights, ribs and all manner of aftermarket parts to make them competitive. Not everyone is a collector and some of these guns actually get shot. I appreciate both sides of that coin and built/ruined a lot of wheel guns myself over the years. Some of which actually got worn out from putting bullets down range. There are a lot of shooting games that require gun mods and lot of folks like to shoot their guns.