Clint Smith article

[tops]

I don't know this Smith feller....Think he had some kind of shootin school,
where folks hunker'd down behind plywood er sumthing and shot at imaginary foes.

Each to his own, I quess.

Handgun manipulations of double action vs single action....Each mode of operation has it's purpose.

With the illogical surmise of the single action mode being more dangerous or prone to accidental dis-charge....

And sum of those that be-cry that doctrine, also so proclaim the 1911 platform to be the the greatest fighting handgun know to man-kind, go figger.

I've done both, used single action and double action for over fifty years and live to tell about it....


Su Amigo,
Dave

.

You will confuse some people by using common sense. Instructors and schools have to teach what will fill their classes. If it is one thing one week and something opposite the next week and both classes are full they have met their goal. Writers are the same with their articles. Making money is the #1 agenda. Larry

 

[Alpo]

At least with me, I tend to think a writer is intelligent based on how well what he says agrees with my thinking.

I think the 1911 45 is a great gun. I also think a double action autoloader is "an ingenious solution to a non-existent problem". Because of this, I believe Jeff Cooper was an extremely intelligent man.

I've never met Mr. Smith, but I have seen this attributed to him. Often.

"The only purpose of a handgun is to fight your way to your rifle".

Now, if he really said that, he is a moron. Why would I care what he thinks about shooting DA revolvers SA?

 

[Boge]

Here's the best article I have read on the subject and I agree wholeheartedly:

The case for DAO | General gun stuff, Techniques & Training, Personal opinions, Gunsmithing | GrantCunningham.com


The problem (which no one has addressed) is as Elmer Keith stated years ago in "Sixguns" in that accurate & fast DA revolver shooting is the hardest discipline to master. Let's face it, many shooters are just plain flat out lazy and want to shoot SA because it's the easier & softer road. I thought I was a pretty good revolver shot years ago until I went all DAO on carry revolvers and that is where the rubber meets the road!!! If a person is dedicated and willing to practice DAO will make you a better revolver shot. No ands, ifs or buts about it.

Mr. Smith is not writing about a hunting scenario with a dedicated shot or the mythical hostage head shot BS at 80 yds. someone invariably brings up, but rather in getting the defensive DA revolver into action as fast as possible in defense of life and getting lead on target. The best gunman the FBI ever had, Jelly Bryce, shot DA and he practically killed more men than cholera!!

 

[mc5aw]

The best gunman the FBI ever had, Jelly Bryce, shot DA and he practically killed more men than cholera!!

Was Cholera a Federal Agent too?

 

[Maze 686]

Here's the best article I have read on the subject and I agree wholeheartedly:

The case for DAO | General gun stuff, Techniques & Training, Personal opinions, Gunsmithing | GrantCunningham.com


The problem (which no one has addressed) is as Elmer Keith stated years ago in "Sixguns" in that accurate & fast DA revolver shooting is the hardest discipline to master. Let's face it, many shooters are just plain flat out lazy and want to shoot SA because it's the easier & softer road. I thought I was a pretty good revolver shot years ago until I went all DAO on carry revolvers and that is where the rubber meets the road!!! If a person is dedicated and willing to practice DAO will make you a better revolver shot. No ands, ifs or buts about it.

Mr. Smith is not writing about a hunting scenario with a dedicated shot or the mythical hostage head shot BS at 80 yds. someone invariably brings up, but rather in getting the defensive DA revolver into action as fast as possible in defense of life and getting lead on target. The best gunman the FBI ever had, Jelly Bryce, shot DA and he practically killed more men than cholera!!

Clint Smith DID bring up the hostage situation in his article. The guy said you should use a double action press in that situation.

 

[Maze 686]

Clint Smith DID bring up the hostage situation in his article. The guy said you should use a double action press in that situation.

Read the section of the article,"Subtle Nuances". It goes against everything you typed. He is talking about a single dedicated shot being more accurate in double action as long as your ,"Smooth". His word not mine.

 

[Nframecollector]

I think some warnings need to be put on the barrels of all revolvers . We don't want any accidents!

 

[CAJUNLAWYER]

Was Cholera a Federal Agent too?

No-he was a sheriff deputy down in St. Martin Parish.

 

[DR505]

I think some warnings need to be put on the barrels of all revolvers . We don't want any accidents!

Ruger is way ahead of you. The problem is the bad guy can't quite read it while you point it at him.

 

[David Armstrong]

from photog:
I would think by now, if they are as unsafe as he states in his article, that the DA/SA format would have gone by the wayside many decades ago.

Actually removing the SA capability of a DA revolver was a highly recommended modification for self defense guns, and some of the larger PDs had big runs of revolvers made specifically in the DAO format. As others have mentioned, for SD purposes with revolvers the SA function is not particularly recommended or used. Same for competition. Outside of something like Silhouette pretty much all the action shootings games are fired double action.

 

[David Armstrong]

I remember that thread, now, Caje! Personally, I thought he was a jerk before that thread even started. For some reason, his articles have always struck me as condescending. Not everyone can afford to go to a fancy shooting school, and a lot of us good ole boys down South have a better sense of self defense tactics than any of Smith's classes could teach. I'm not saying the guy isn't good, I figure he is, but if you don't think he's good, I bet you could just ask him, and he'd tell you how good he is.

Living in the South and knowing a lot of shooters, and having trained with Clint a few times, I would suggest that very few, if any, people that have trained with him would agree with the tactics claim. One of the problems with good ol' boys, Southern or Northern, is that they often think they know a lot more than folks that have spent decades learning an issue. As for Clint telling you how good he is, one of the most frequent comments he makes is something along the lines of "I may not know everything, but over the years I have seen this...." He tends to teach from actual experience, and admittedly he does get a bit terse at times. I've heard a couple of folks ask him how good he is and the response both times was "better than some, not as good as others, but so far it has been good enough."

 

[David Armstrong]

Dont you think this accuracy DA vs SA thing could be setteled by simply asking people that have competed in sillouett (sp?) shoots how they shoot? I bet the winners shot SA! Give me a break! EDIT. Somewhere in the garage I have a guns & ammo magazine from the early 70s that has by chance a picture of me in it being coached by jeff cooper at a sillouett shoot. He didnt get on me for shooting single action. (I didnt win either.) The article was about the then new sport catching on in california and they by chance took my picture and used it, NOT because I was a top shooter. If you can find the article I am the guy shooting a nickle 29 with a 8 3/8" barrel that looks like a beached whale. The point is cooper never advocated shooting DA to me.

Silhouette shooters shoot SA. IDPA, IPSC, ICORE, Bullseye, PPC, and NRA Action shooters that shoot revolvers almost exclusively shoot DA only.

 

[David Armstrong]

At least with me, I tend to think a writer is intelligent based on how well what he says agrees with my thinking.

I think the 1911 45 is a great gun. I also think a double action autoloader is "an ingenious solution to a non-existent problem". Because of this, I believe Jeff Cooper was an extremely intelligent man.

I've never met Mr. Smith, but I have seen this attributed to him. Often.

"The only purpose of a handgun is to fight your way to your rifle".

Now, if he really said that, he is a moron. Why would I care what he thinks about shooting DA revolvers SA?

As a FWIW, that quote is somewhat taken out of context. The quote is part of a larger lecture that deals with the relative effectiveness of firearms, and IIRC was directed at LEOs originally. The "in context" version is that handguns are convenient to carry but the rifle is much better to fight with. My notes from the lecture read: "The handgun would not be my choice of weapon if I knew I was going to a fight. The handgun lets you fight your way back to the rifle you shouldn't have left behind. If you think you are going to have a fight take your best weapon with you, don't leave it in your car."

 

[thomasinaz]

OK, I went and read the article because of this thread. My first observation is that's one beautiful Model 29!!!! Except for the grips, I'd like one just like it someday.... Anyways, I think this article is written in the context of self defense shooting, and not hunting or target shooting. I have to say I agree with his overall theme of using double action revolvers in double action mode, for self defense or tactical use. We were taught this way in the AF when I first shot a revolver, the M15 38 Spl, in 1984. We spent a lot of time dry firing with a coin on the barrel rib, and we shot out to 25 yards double action only. I also agree with the other theme of this article, practice. With practice double action works, very well, accurate and fast. Without practice... not so well.

 

[David Armstrong]

We spent a lot of time dry firing with a coin on the barrel rib, and we shot out to 25 yards double action only.

Gosh, I'd forgotten the coin drill. A great way to learn trigger control. We were expected to go from balancing on the rib to balancing on the front sight (Patridge sights). For quals the first drill was 3 rounds at 50 yards. Unless you had all three rounds on the target from the 50 you did not get to move up to the 25, and unless you had your hits at the 25 you didn't get to move to the shorter ranges.