Clint Smith article

[Grayfox]

Having never found myself in a real self defense situation, I can't really say if DA only is the right way to go.
However, I have shot revolvers many times in IDPA. For most of it I do shoot DA. However, when they throw in targets out at 20 yards or more, I find myself automatically cocking the hammer and squeezing off precise shots.
I see no reason to handicap myself with DA only all the time.

 

[Kanewpadle]

If you can't hit your target effectively at self defense range in DA, you need more practice. Once upon a time it was required to be able to hit your target effectively at ranges greater than 25 yards while shooing in DAO.

Walking around with a revolver cocked is like walking around with a 1911 cocked but not locked. It ain't safe.

 

[Big Cholla]

I remember that thread, now, Caje! Personally, I thought he was a jerk before that thread even started. For some reason, his articles have always struck me as condescending. Not everyone can afford to go to a fancy shooting school, and a lot of us good ole boys down South have a better sense of self defense tactics than any of Smith's classes could teach. I'm not saying the guy isn't good, I figure he is, but if you don't think he's good, I bet you could just ask him, and he'd tell you how good he is.

With all due respect,Sir; IMHO you couldn't be more wrong about Clint Smith. I know him well enough that I would venture a guess that his reply to your question to him would be, "Good? No, compared to many I know, I'm not very good, but on the other hand, I'm good enough to have stayed alive when it counted." Clint is a much decorated combat marine.

Clint teaches self-defense skills while using firearms and the brain. He also writes from that position. I wouldn't be highly surprised that even you would benefit from taking one of his courses.

To address the SA vs. DA issue, I will say that when minimizing the time being taken to shoot, I would never use the SA mode, but when time is not an issue, I would and have taken long initial shots using the SA mode. Just remember; a gunfight at short distances is exactly when one uses every thing possible to minimize the amount of time that one's opponents have to shoot while maximizing the amount of time that one has to shoot at the opponents. Using DA only in a close quarters gunfight is just one of those things to do that is a given.

As a former firearms/tactics instructor, I attended several of Clint Smith's courses. I took something away from everyone of those courses and then tried my best to pass those somethings along to both my LEO students and my civilian students. ............... Big Cholla

 

[Bluecoat76]

I also was shocked and disappointed in the article. I couldn't believe it. This one slipped by the Editor who was asleep at the switch. It sounds like someone still shaking from a recent 'AD'. What a unprofessional/unsafe blurb this was coming from a great magazine. Coming from the 'common sense' generation I'm shaking my head.

 

[Bell Charter Oak Holsters]

I couldn't care less what Clint Smith say's or writes. And I do not understand why anyone else would? Paper does not refuse ink. I thought the article was ridiculously absurd. Maybe it was edited for size considerations.....he seems to have a big, well you know...ego.

Cheers;
Lefty

 

[YogiBear]

Aloha,

I shoot all my revolvers DA all the time.

SA shooting is rare for me, except when using a SA firearm.

I guess it's a habit I got into when shooting IPSC years ago.

When I shoot a Beretta, the first shot is always DA.

I think new shooters today have no idea how to shoot DA.

When I shoot my 27-2 DA with magnum loads, I usually end up being the

only person shooting. All the younger shooters stop shooting their semis

and end up watching me roll thru 3 cylinders of magnums.

More fun when I use my M57 or 58 with magnum loads DA.

Nothing like the Big Dog Barking.

 

[finesse_r]

If you can't hit your target effectively at self defense range in DA, you need more practice. Once upon a time it was required to be able to hit your target effectively at ranges greater than 25 yards while shooing in DAO.

Walking around with a revolver cocked is like walking around with a 1911 cocked but not locked. It ain't safe.

If you can't keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to shoot you need more practice.

 

[Joe Kent]

finesse, I would agree with you, but the advantage of the 1911 allows you to easily train and use the thumb safety. That is why it and the Browning P35 are two of my most favorite auto's. As far as Clint Smith's article I do agree that Combat use and training should be DA ,both for speed and safety against any accidental discharge. In my humble opinion ,and the way I train ,that is the best, but as I have said before, it's your and only your butt on the line in both the combat situation and the court room and grandjury after the fact. Do what you can to best protect your life, freedom and assets. All my best, Joe.

 

[handejector]

Has anyone else ever had the pleasure of being handed a cocked and loaded(with magnums) 2-1/2" Mod 19 in the wee hours, in dim light, by a nervous, shaking old lady who "heard a noise", but does NOT know how to UNcock a loaded gun?

Try it sometime.
It is quite exhilarating.

 

[Biginge]

Not going to enter the debate here, but is it safer to uncock a Ruger Blackhawk (that for whatever reason has been cocked) than a S&W 29 (that has for whatever reason has been cocked)? Is one to believe that you should never have to "uncock" a single action revolver after it was cocked? If this is true then single action revolvers must be unsafe. Enlighten me here. I have shot, and am a certified Range Officer, and in competition, many times have been handed a cocked SA on a loaded round that was experiencing a "problem" , the shooter was injured, etc. I see no difference in a cocked SA vs. DA. I am not advocating cocking either unless you are ready to fire downrange. The "don't ever cock it again" statement would lend itself to believe SA is unsafe because of the nature of the beast , if said statement is true. Just sayin------

 

[Maze 686]

All I can say is from my experiance as a LEO and former Special Operations member is, during a hostage situation that single action just might come in handy.

As far as some folks talking about speed in double action, I can't see how a double action press of the trigger is quicker then a cocked single action. For follow up shots, yes, but not the intial shot.

Remember not all situations require you to shoot, someone approaching with a baseball bat that is not close enough to strike you is not going get shot. As they step closer and tell you they are going to kill you. Then yeah, I'm cocking my hammer and pointing at them center mass. If they stop good, if they don't......

Double action only can be slower in these situations, if your already in the fight or the other guy is on top of you then by all means double away till the threat stops.

 

[CAJUNLAWYER]

The term double action came about because there is two ways (hence the term double) of making the revolver fire, the first being a deliberate pull of the trigger from a full resting position and the second being to first "set" the trigger (cock if you will) by taking ones thumb and moving the hammer back to a cocked position at which time the trigger is set and the gun can ge fired by a light application of pressure. Single action revolvers only give one the second option of firing-hence single action.
Over the years this has morphed into the term single action being used to designate the action of setting the trigger before firing the revolver and double action being used to denote the regular pulling of the trigger from rest to cycle the revolver.
The double action revolver gives the user two (double of one) options. Single action for when precision untimed fire is appropriate, ie at the range or when the fleeing felon is 25 or so yards from you and opening distance rapidly and double action for those sphincter tightening times.
Practice is important-but to say only use a double action revolver in the at rest mode is incorrect as there are times when first setting the trigger is either necessary or desireable. The proper training can help teach one these things.
How's that for some pedagogical sounding prose.

 

[feralmerril]

Dont you think this accuracy DA vs SA thing could be setteled by simply asking people that have competed in sillouett (sp?) shoots how they shoot? I bet the winners shot SA! Give me a break! EDIT. Somewhere in the garage I have a guns & ammo magazine from the early 70s that has by chance a picture of me in it being coached by jeff cooper at a sillouett shoot. He didnt get on me for shooting single action. (I didnt win either.) The article was about the then new sport catching on in california and they by chance took my picture and used it, NOT because I was a top shooter. If you can find the article I am the guy shooting a nickle 29 with a 8 3/8" barrel that looks like a beached whale. The point is cooper never advocated shooting DA to me.

 

[handejector]

The term double action came about because there is two ways (hence the term double) of making the revolver fire, the first being a deliberate pull of the trigger from a full resting position and the second being to first "set" the trigger (cock if you will) by taking ones thumb and moving the hammer back to a cocked position at which time the trigger is set and the gun can ge fired by a light application of pressure. Single action revolvers only give one the second option of firing-hence single action.

I object!
Learned counsel is not technically correct!

Single Action:
The trigger can only perform the single action of releasing the hammer.

Double Action:
The trigger can perform two actions (2 x single = double ), i.e, both cocking and releasing the hammer.

 

[handejector]

Double Action speed and/or accuracy-

Tell Ed McGivern he's wrong.
5 shots
15 feet
2/5 of ONE second
covered with a playing card
with a LONG action S&W.

Tell Jerry Miculek he is wrong when he does 12 in less than 3-
World Record 12 Shots In Under 3 Seconds - YouTube

Depends on what you practice doing. I am NOT anywhere close to the ability of the above shooters, but I came along at the height of PPC shooting, which is all DA. Yeah, yeah, I know they used tricked out bull guns with buttery soft actions. BUT, you could also shoot the course with a Mod 27 and magnum ammo, at least informally. It'll teach you a bit about DA shooting.

In my 30's, I could hit a small galvanized well tank, EVERY shot, at 200 yds, DA. I have hit 2 rams with 3 shots on a silhouette course, DA with a stock Mod 29, STANDING, two hands.

When I go to my barn and a squirrel, possum, or coon runs out, I engage it with my carry gun. I have not fired at one yet that lived. Some make the brush and get away, but some climb a tree. Some don't make it to brush or tree. Carry gun is a 642, so there ain't no hammer to cock.
For the record- +P's WILL kill, squirrels, possums, and raccoons.

Do I shoot SA? Of course I do.
That doesn't mean I did not learn to shoot effectively DA.

BTW-
have NOT read the article.
Don't know what it said, but every shooter should be taught to shoot DA. Every shooter should be taught the inherent advantages/disadvantages of both schools. People who will never spend the time and effort to get very familiar with guns should be taught with a lot of emphasis placed on the inherent accident potential of cocking a gun and handling a cocked gun under extreme stress.

 

[CAJUNLAWYER]

I object!
Learned counsel is not technically correct!

Like you think you're the first person that has pointed that out
Stand in line with abot 25 judges with THAT observation. I may not always be correct but I always sound convincing when I'm saying it-that alone will win you 90%

 

[A10]

Munching popcorn......bumping post count.....

 

[GLV]

First,

I did not read all of the replies--or really very many of them.

I often carry a revolver or two. All are shot DA. Most of my carry revolvers do not have a hammer spur.

If health permits, I'll shoot a club match Sunday, using a 44 Special, shooting DA.

To each their own.

 

[keith44spl]

I don't know this Smith feller....Think he had some kind of shootin school,
where folks hunker'd down behind plywood er sumthing and shot at imaginary foes.

Each to his own, I quess.

Handgun manipulations of double action vs single action....Each mode of operation has it's purpose.

With the illogical surmise of the single action mode being more dangerous or prone to accidental dis-charge....

And sum of those that be-cry that doctrine, also so proclaim the 1911 platform to be the the greatest fighting handgun know to man-kind, go figger.

I've done both, used single action and double action for over fifty years and live to tell about it....


Su Amigo,
Dave

.

 

[SG-688]

I think that the article mistakes the best sequence for lowering the hammer - the trigger should be released before lifting the hammer off of the blocking thumb rather than after.