CMP 1911 pricing is announced

[LoboGunLeather]

Every item they sell goes up every year. Like clockwork. I'm glad they are there to furnish me with a rifle, but they don't have to gouge the customers (and I don't believe they do, YET, with the Garands).

But at last check, the CMP is saying there are about 18 months left until the Garand supply dries up, unless they get more that they are not counting on right now. So just what is the reason for increasing the price of those rifles, when they sure aren't giving their employees a comparable raise?

oh, that's right. They're "promoting marksmanship".

News flash! Prices of everything have gone up just about every year, at least for the 6-plus decades I've been around.

We have to live with certain realities. Sometimes we can overcome in unforeseen ways, like my recent trip to the grocery store. I know for a fact that there was no way I could possibly carry $100 worth of groceries 30 or 40 years ago, but now I can easily pick them up and carry them to my car. Am I getting a lot stronger or are we getting less for our dollars today?

Back to the CMP selling 1911-type pistols. Here is a thought: I can part out a mix-master, sell the slide for $200 to $300, barrel for $100-plus, grips for $50-plus, frame for $300 to $500, and miscellaneous small parts for $100 or more. So even a beater mix-master can be worth $750 to $1000 (depending on specific parts makers, relative rarity, etc) on the collector market (lots of folks looking for the correct parts to return their old pistols to "correct" condition). Better yet, I could purchase half-a-dozen, strip them down, then reassemble to 3 "correct" pistols and 3 mix-masters; or do the same thing with 6 "service grade" pistols that may have had some parts changes over the past 75 years, and probably show a 50% profit.

Several years ago I came across a pistol made on the Essex frame (after-market, 1970's product) with all USGI surplus parts. Slide was a 1911A-1 Colt WW2, barrel was a WW2 original, mainspring housing was Ithaca WW2, slide stop and thumb safety were Rem-Rand WW2, hammer was a Colt WW2. I put an after-market upper and spare parts on the Essex frame, making a perfectly good shooter that sold for $150 more than I had in the pistol and parts. The recovered WW2 parts sold to collectors for over $400. I made a $550 profit in less than a month.

About 20 years ago at a gun show I came across a full box of WW2 magazines. Brand new, still in the wrappers, 72 of them. I purchased the box for $150. The magazines were made by General Shaver, one of the least commonly seen WW2 producers. As collector interest rose, and the internet started providing a bigger marketplace, I eventually sold every one of those magazines to collectors, and not a one brought less than $50.

Some of the surplus pistols that many folks would turn up their noses at will be absolute gold mines for collectors. Some of us will even know what we are looking at!

I am happy to see that so many folks know so much about those old pistols that they want nothing to do with them at the expected prices!

 

[JohnRippert]

To the people talking about the CMP as a "business" gouging people, you do realize that they are not a for profit organization? They keep their overhead as low as they can to put more money towards shooting sports. They run the Camp Perry shoots as well as many other shooting functions that run the gamut from teaching to expert. Nobody is lining their pockets there. They charge what the market will take so they can put more money to the purpose of their charter, shooting sports and their promotion.

Anyone who thought they were going to get even a rack grade USGI 1911 for anywhere near $500 is living in a alternate reality. I bought one of the Sistema 1911's at Gander Mountain about 10 years ago for $250 and that was a screaming deal back then. You are lucky to find one today for $500. I am getting really tired of this negativity. I expect better on this site and am disappointed to see the extent of it here.

 

[Grayfox]

Way too many conclusions being jumped at here.

First of all is that nobody knows for certain IF these guns will actually be released for sale. All we know is that they can be.

Nobody knows what condition they are in. But they are in storage and considered serviceable.

CMP is required to inspect every gun and repair as needed. No doubt some will be used purely as parts to repair others. But in the end, every gun sold will be in safe working order and meet the specifications. Which BTW are somewhat loose on purpose as the guns were designed for combat conditions.

The newest of these pistols would have been built in the mid to late 1940s. Over the years the vast majority will have been arsenal reworked at least once, maybe more. The odds of an original, all correct pistol are unimaginable. And if a few should actually show up, they will be auctioned for a whole lot more than $1000.

These days $1000 for a U.S.G.I issue 1911 is not unreasonable. If you don't believe that, check the auction sites.

Finally, if the guns were released today, I figure with having to set up the system, shipping, receiving, inspecting, repairs, grading and whatever else, that the first guns likely won't be available for sale for something like two years anyway.

So why don't all you nay-sayers quit pissin' and moanin' until we actually see what shows up in the stores.

 

[lrrifleman]

Before my accident almost 9 years ago, I was a regular participant in the CMP matches at Camp Perry. Since I am now engaging in the prone only matches, I really can't shoot the CMP rifle matches, but I do see the side programs that CMP does conduct during the Nationals.

They do an awful lot to support Juniors, who ARE the future of our sport. The DCM/CMP wasn't designed to benefit the older, more experienced shooters like us, but to introduce the youth to our sport so it continues. We support the Juniors via our support of the DCM/CMP!

Look at the original mission of the DCM/CMP/NBPRP, it was to train youth in preparation for military service in the use of military style firearms. That is because a 140 some odd years ago, our military marksmanship left too much to be desired!

Forgive me if some of you get perturbed by what I say now, but our country is in the midst of a shooting war, with the potential that shots will be exchanged here as long as our border remains pourous! This is when we need people to be familiar with the use of the service rifle, and be proficient in their marksmanship skills. The NRA in partnership with the CMP IS doing that.

Yes, the surplus arms passing through the CMP may be over priced.

Yes, you can probably purchase a brand spanking new mil-spec 1911 for less than a released, military issue 1911.

Yes, some of you can make a profit by buying these veterans and making a complete manufacture 1911 and sell off the extra parts.

... but is that what the CMP is for?

Perhaps, if we keep the initial mission of the DCM/CMP/NRA/NBPRP in mind, we should ask, what have you done to prepare the future generations tasked to protect this great nation?

 

[sigp220.45]

I think the sad reality is if these guns were sold at a price that would make everyone happy, say 500 bucks, the year's quota would be snapped up in the first week by flippers and hit the resale market at over a grand anyway. I'd rather have CMP get the money.

 

[ladder13]

I believe someone asked about C&R eligibility of these GI 1911's.
From the COO of the CMP, straight off the CMP forum.
03 licensees will not be able to have direct shipment to them.

"The C&R will not be sufficient for purchase of a 1911 if we ever receive any from the Army. The current CMP purchase procedures will be followed with the addition off the 1911 being shipped to the Type 001 FFL to a Type 001 FFL. We will know more after the MOU with the Army is written."

 

[Art Doc]

If they are actually going to be allowed to sell them that's great...and I am shocked. I was certain someone in DC living at taxpayer expense would stop the sale.

Genuine WW II 1911s bring a lot of money. I would not have expected the CMP guns to be cheap. Do you want a new gun for shooting or a piece of history? That's what you're buying with one of these.

I assume that $1K gets you a real beater. Expect to pay much more for anything resembling a nice gun...if there are any nice ones available. I've heard they are all pretty much worn out.

 

[clang444]

My Army combat engineer battalion converted from a wheeled unit to Mechanized in 1985. We got the M113 APCs that the infantry turned in when they got their Bradley's.

We also received a bunch of 1911s for the drivers and squad leaders, so we may have been one of the last units to ever be issued 1911s. Every one of them was a mixmaster rattletrap. They fired every time you pulled the trigger, but some of them couldn't even hit the paper targets we were supposed to qualify on.

My expectations are that these are the kind of guns that the CMP will eventually get. They will have little value as a shooter, so if that is what you are looking for try somewhere else.

As an aside, the motor pool guys were issued M3 grease guns to carry in their M88 recovery vehicle. Probably the last unit issued those too.

 

[Drm50]

This is still a free country. There is no debate, it's your choice to
buy what you want. The sale of these military guns & ammo
was suppose to be to advance civilian marksmanship. The selling
price is not the big issue, although I think it prices a lot of people
out. These guns were not intended for resale nor multiple buys
to hoard as a investment. I know guys that bought CMP guns.
M-1s and 22 target rifles and immediately put them up for sale.
Not what program was intended for. I'll buy one for $1000, if
they give profits to Wounded Warriors.

 

[kbm6893]

This is still a free country. There is no debate, it's your choice to
buy what you want. The sale of these military guns & ammo
was suppose to be to advance civilian marksmanship. The selling
price is not the big issue, although I think it prices a lot of people
out. These guns were not intended for resale nor multiple buys
to hoard as a investment. I know guys that bought CMP guns.
M-1s and 22 target rifles and immediately put them up for sale.
Not what program was intended for. I'll buy one for $1000, if
they give profits to Wounded Warriors.

I'd buy one at an inflated price if they gave the profits to wounded warriors, too.

 

[ladder13]

Yes. I am working for free, doing pro bono legal work and putting on free seminars that i call "What To Do After Your Self Defense Shooting," a legal seminar for CCW licencees. My range provides space, beverages and administrative assistance for free. It is a very popular free program.

HA! I fooled you!!!

Not fair, you handed out business cards.

 

[Watchdog]

We also received a bunch of 1911s for the drivers and squad leaders, so we may have been one of the last units to ever be issued 1911s. Every one of them was a mixmaster rattletrap. They fired every time you pulled the trigger, but some of them couldn't even hit the paper targets we were supposed to qualify on.

Yessir, it's always the gun's fault, ain't it? Whoop!

 

[alwslate]

I believe someone asked about C&R eligibility of these GI 1911's.
From the COO of the CMP, straight off the CMP forum.
03 licensees will not be able to have direct shipment to them.

"The C&R will not be sufficient for purchase of a 1911 if we ever receive any from the Army. The current CMP purchase procedures will be followed with the addition off the 1911 being shipped to the Type 001 FFL to a Type 001 FFL. We will know more after the MOU with the Army is written."

Sounds like some new unnecessary nonsense is being added.
When I bought my Garands from the CMP they were shipped
directly to me as well as all the other buyers. Once you were
determined to be a qualified buyer the guns were shipped
directly, no FFL needed, C&R or 01.

 

[ladder13]

No, I do not do this to drum up business. I tell all of the attendees to NOT call me if they need a lawyer and, instead, find a lawyer on Martindale.com BEFORE they need the attorney.

I was just yankin' your chain. Your services are much appreciated I imagine.

 

[Grayfox]

I thought about the C&R angle too as I have one. I was thinking about making the trip to Anniston and picking out a pistol. Now, I'm not so sure.
I sent CMP an e-mail yesterday asking about this:

"IF the 1911 pistols are offered for sale, I've heard that they can't be shipped to a C&R holder. However, can a C&R holder purchase a pistol in person at the CMP store and take delivery at that time? Or will it still have to be shipped to an 01 FFL?

Can a non-FFL purchase a pistol at the store and take it home with them?"

Here's the response I got this morning:
"Sir,
We do not have any information at this time. If anything changes it will be posted on the website.
Thank you,

CMP Customer Service
[email protected]
256-835-8455"

Apparently the folks at CMP are just as much in the dark as everybody else. All they know for sure is that a law has been passed that that MIGHT let them sell some 1911s.

I'm just guessing here, but I suspect that these pistols, IF they are ever sold, will have to be shipped to and transferred through an 01 FFL. Thus adding more time, expense and paperwork to the process.

Damn, here I was hoping to make a little road trip and come home with a piece of history. I should have known it wouldn't be that easy.

 

[noonster]

those of you who don't want to jump through all the CMP hoops to purchase - your choice. I'm glad you have no idea what those hoops are. Singers: Personal opinion: I'd suspect it's reasonable to expect there are one or two hundred of them still in govt inventory. Even if only fifty, they'll probably end up on the auction. They'll probably take parts from others to make them as complete as possible. The CMP guys will go through every 1911 to make sure they're reasonably serviceable. They like their guns to go "boom" but not "ka-blooey!" They can and should sell them for what they can get for them - when all the guns are gone, they'll still be able to run youth programs, etc with the money they've put away. They need as big a legacy as they can make. You can't consider a CMP purchase as anything less than a donation to the shooting sports cause. Don't kid yourself with any lesser thought. If you get a bargain, consider it a blessing.

 

[clang444]

Yessir, it's always the gun's fault, ain't it? Whoop!

Where I served most soldiers were proficient with their small arms. Maybe it was different in the Air Force.

 

[spad124]

This is still a free country. There is no debate, it's your choice to
buy what you want. The sale of these military guns & ammo
was suppose to be to advance civilian marksmanship. The selling
price is not the big issue, although I think it prices a lot of people
out. These guns were not intended for resale nor multiple buys
to hoard as a investment. I know guys that bought CMP guns.
M-1s and 22 target rifles and immediately put them up for sale.
Not what program was intended for. I'll buy one for $1000, if
they give profits to Wounded Warriors.

The CMP's eligibility requirements, be a member of an eligible CMP recognized club and demonstrate that you've taken a marksmanship class, are supposed to help ensure that the weapons are used to advance marksmanship. I think the fact that the CMP arsenals the weapons and installs Criterion barrels on the M1s demonstrates they are trying to keep on task with promoting marksmanship. But, yes, some eligible purchasers only buy for resale or to collect.

The government used to actively promote marksmanship. My FIL and his father were both in the Home Guard during WWII. One was too young to serve and the other too old. So, they shot every weekend with a surplus 1918 RIA '03. The arrangement was the Guard member supplied the gun, the government supplied the range and ammo. Both were excellent marksmen and my FIL later served in occupied Germany as an armorer.

 

[scoobysnacker]

A grand for a rack grade 1911? That means you'll have to spend another grand, (at least), getting it the way you want it. Any number of 1911's already built and ready to rock & roll for that kind of $$$.

God, I hope you're just joking around with that comment. The condition I would want mine to be in would be very well worn, rattle a lot, but be completely functional.

 

[Watchdog]

Where I served most soldiers were proficient with their small arms.

Right. They were proficient, but they couldn't stay on the paper?

Okey dokey. That's right, though, I keep forgettin' it was the fault of them ol' rattletrap G.I. .45s.

Maybe it was different in the Air Force.

Might have been, I can't speak for the whole danged Air Force (apologies to Will Stockdale). But just like the Army, and every other branch of the military, we had our share of weenies who couldn't hit the floor if they dropped the pistol on it. Most of 'em finally got the hang of it, though.

Speaking for myself only, I think the last time I ever missed the paper completely might have been back when I was around 9-years-old and shootin' my daddy's .22 rifle for the first time. That was well over a half-century ago, though. Now, I'm no kind of a marksman, but I've never missed the paper at 25- or 50-yards with any 1911, old or new. That includes my "mixmaster rattletrap" 1943 Remington Rand in the photo below.