Rastoff
US Veteran
Yes, that would work.
Coach: Why am I Shooting Low and Right? (Lefty)
- Thread starter Llando88
- Start date
ginzo
Member
Correct, laid on it's side on top of front sight.
Someone here (I think it was Mr. Rastoff) gave me the idea of using a .22 casing on top of the front sight. Guess what, it works!!!!
Trigger practice Dry Fire .22 casing - YouTube
Someone here (I think it was Mr. Rastoff) gave me the idea of using a .22 casing on top of the front sight. Guess what, it works!!!!
Trigger practice Dry Fire .22 casing - YouTube
Thank GOD I found this thread!! For one, I also consistently hit to the lower right. I was so frustrated, I asked someone to shoot my M&P40 (first time shooter/owner) Well I verified my gun is accurate. So I'm very appreciative with all the recommendations I'm reading. I can't wait to apply the techniques and practice!!
Ok, so quite a few changes since my last trip to the range in December.
- I installed a set of Talon grips. i like them a lot, they allow me to have better purchase on the grip, zI'm very happy with them.
- I decided to cancel my membership at Shooter's World Tampa, and find a quieter, more laid back place to shoot. So I joined Florida Firearms Academy, up near Oldsmar. It is a small shop, with 10 x 25 yd lanes. The range is cool and comfortable. I like that the booths have a light above the station. The staff seems mostly ex-military, relaxed, but competent and very professional. Cost was $70 for a three month membership, with unlimited range time. I felt good shooting there.
- I got new contact lenses, meaning I wasn't sure whether I would need to wear my reading glasses or not.
- I had bought some ammo, Federal Champion 115 gr FMJ, at WalMart. First ammo I've ever bought, lol.
Pistol (9mm FS Oct 13 manuf, Apex DCAEK/polymer trigger) worked flawlessly. 90 rounds today, 400 total so far, zero issues. Squeeze / bang.
So: to the shooting: I felt like I was all over the map. The picture is from the first set of 5 round groups at 7 yards. Group #1 was like, wow, then I wanged in the flier upper left lol.
Curious I was not shooting quite so far right (I'm a lefty) but, looking at #2, 3, and 4 I was over gripping again. #5 was good except for the whiskey tango foxtrot (circled) on lower right. Group #6 felt pretty good, about 2".
I did end up using reading glasses, my arms aren't long enough
So, tonight's question is this: my grip is pretty tame, more like a medium handshake. I've read (Mas Ayoub) that you should grip pretty tightly, may even put the grips at odds with some kind of push/pull thing to stabilize the shooting platform.
Any thoughts on the above appreciated.
- I installed a set of Talon grips. i like them a lot, they allow me to have better purchase on the grip, zI'm very happy with them.
- I decided to cancel my membership at Shooter's World Tampa, and find a quieter, more laid back place to shoot. So I joined Florida Firearms Academy, up near Oldsmar. It is a small shop, with 10 x 25 yd lanes. The range is cool and comfortable. I like that the booths have a light above the station. The staff seems mostly ex-military, relaxed, but competent and very professional. Cost was $70 for a three month membership, with unlimited range time. I felt good shooting there.
- I got new contact lenses, meaning I wasn't sure whether I would need to wear my reading glasses or not.
- I had bought some ammo, Federal Champion 115 gr FMJ, at WalMart. First ammo I've ever bought, lol.
Pistol (9mm FS Oct 13 manuf, Apex DCAEK/polymer trigger) worked flawlessly. 90 rounds today, 400 total so far, zero issues. Squeeze / bang.
So: to the shooting: I felt like I was all over the map. The picture is from the first set of 5 round groups at 7 yards. Group #1 was like, wow, then I wanged in the flier upper left lol.
Curious I was not shooting quite so far right (I'm a lefty) but, looking at #2, 3, and 4 I was over gripping again. #5 was good except for the whiskey tango foxtrot (circled) on lower right. Group #6 felt pretty good, about 2".
I did end up using reading glasses, my arms aren't long enough
So, tonight's question is this: my grip is pretty tame, more like a medium handshake. I've read (Mas Ayoub) that you should grip pretty tightly, may even put the grips at odds with some kind of push/pull thing to stabilize the shooting platform.
Any thoughts on the above appreciated.
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Rastoff
US Veteran
That target doesn't look that bad to me considering you're relatively new. You've only fired 400 rounds. When I'm healthy, I fire at least 400 a month.
How quickly were you shooting (time between shots)? Did you rest in between shots?
How much dry practice have you done?
How quickly were you shooting (time between shots)? Did you rest in between shots?
How much dry practice have you done?
Well, more accurately, I should have said 400 rounds through MY pistol. I am up to 1,320 overall, since last June, mostly the rental M&P at my last range.
I have three magazines, so my routine was to load 5 each, fire 5 rounds slow (maybe 3 s in between) then swap magazine for a fresh one.
After 15 rounds, I pull the target in and examine the placement while I reload.
Ref dry firing, not much lately. I've been on travel to Abilene Tx four weeks out of the last six, we moved house this past weekend, sold my car, and bought another one. So kinda busy lately lol.
I think at this point I'm to talk to the guys at my new range, and see if I can get some private instruction or take a basic defensive pistol class. Can't hurt, and be good to have some pointers to make sure I have the fundamentals correct.
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Rastoff
US Veteran
More dry practice would help.
Don't be too concerned with your group size. You're doing fine. When shooting, in between shots, put your gun down and rest a little rather than holding it up the whole time. This will also help control the shots. By holding the gun up the whole time, you'll become tired even if only a little.
This is really a good idea.
Don't be too concerned with your group size. You're doing fine. When shooting, in between shots, put your gun down and rest a little rather than holding it up the whole time. This will also help control the shots. By holding the gun up the whole time, you'll become tired even if only a little.
So, shot another 50 rounds of Federal Champion 115 FMJ today at 7 yards.
A typical group is in the above picture. It's weird, the group is not great, but I felt like I controlled the pistol better in the squeeze, i.e., I was trying to avoid overgripping and twisting the pistol low and right at the break.
Changes today included:
A much more upright, relaxed, square stance. I just simply stood naturally, and brought the pistol to my dominant eye (left), and tried to really focus on the front sight.
I used a much, much firmer grip on both strong hand and support hand.
I really like the Talon grips. They continue to be secure and feel great.
One awkward/dumb noobie thing I did was install the extended mag release on the left side. I was concentrating so hard on squeezing, that I hit the mag release, twice. Argh. Good lesson learned at the range; I will swap it over to the other side, or put the regular stock mag release back in on the right.
I also spoke to the guys at the range about training. They do 90 minutes of 1:1 instruction for $75 for range members. I'm going to set this up after next week's business travel.
Shot count, overall, is now: me = 1,750 rounds, M&P S/N HRL3xxx = 520 rounds. 0 malfunctions/FTF/FTE.
A typical group is in the above picture. It's weird, the group is not great, but I felt like I controlled the pistol better in the squeeze, i.e., I was trying to avoid overgripping and twisting the pistol low and right at the break.
Changes today included:
A much more upright, relaxed, square stance. I just simply stood naturally, and brought the pistol to my dominant eye (left), and tried to really focus on the front sight.
I used a much, much firmer grip on both strong hand and support hand.
I really like the Talon grips. They continue to be secure and feel great.
One awkward/dumb noobie thing I did was install the extended mag release on the left side. I was concentrating so hard on squeezing, that I hit the mag release, twice. Argh. Good lesson learned at the range; I will swap it over to the other side, or put the regular stock mag release back in on the right.
I also spoke to the guys at the range about training. They do 90 minutes of 1:1 instruction for $75 for range members. I'm going to set this up after next week's business travel.
Shot count, overall, is now: me = 1,750 rounds, M&P S/N HRL3xxx = 520 rounds. 0 malfunctions/FTF/FTE.
Rastoff
US Veteran
As a lefty, I've never been a fan of extended mag releases. Because I can easily reach the mag catch with my middle finger on my shooting hand, I've never needed the extra length. I understand why a right hand shooter would want one, or even a lefty if it's installed on the right. Still, when I hear of the mag catch being accidentally pressed, 70% of the time it's on a gun with an extended one installed.
This is one of the best things you can do. It's not cheap, but, if the instructor knows what he's doing, can be the best to help improve.
I know a lot about shooting, but it's hard to coach someone from a keyboard.
Here's a little thing that can help get the most out of those 90 minutes. Set your expectations reasonably. Don't expect to improve instantly. Some things will immediately get better, but most will still take practice. So, work on remembering what the instructor tells you so you can use it when you practice on your own.
Also, there are instructors and then there are coaches. An instructor is someone who imparts knowledge. A good instructor doesn't just read from a book, but can present the information in different ways to make it clear to different people.
A coach is someone who is able to observe an athlete and offer suggestions to improve. This is a talent in an of itself. To do it right, the coach has to have an intimate understanding of the individual athlete. This way he can tell when the athlete is doing something different. Really good coaches are rare.
Good instructors are not necessarily good coaches. There are a lot of instructors out there. It has been my experience that less than 20% of the ones I've met are good ones. There are not many coaches at all and good ones are extremely rare, especially in the shooting sports.
Llando, if you meet up with a good coach, hold on to him with both hands.
Here's a couple of vids that helped me when I was struggling with accuracy.
Proper grip.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iQb8j_hXnM
Trigger pull drills.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxyTFzgWjhk
Proper grip.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iQb8j_hXnM
Trigger pull drills.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxyTFzgWjhk
Well, I've been on business travel, so finally made a trip to the range (Florida Firearms, Academy Oldsmar) today.
I did not make it to any instruction yet, but had a few changes to note.
I fired 50 rounds of Federal Champion 115 gr FMC, then 50 rounds of Freedom Munitions 124 gr FMJ RN.
Oddly, I wasn't prepared how much more I liked the 124 gr munition. It felt, I don't know, more "solid"? Like it gave a bit more "pop" than the 115 gr round. It's hard to describe. One of my future SD ammo options is Speer GD 124 gr hollowpoint, so if it feels like this, I'll be happy.
I had also obtained some NRA GB-8 (CP) targets to score a set of rounds. I shot 1 set of ten at 25 yards to see what I would score. I'll post that pic shortly.
The rest of the rounds I shot at the usual 7 yards.
I focused on front site, squeeze to the bang, and "holding" the trigger at the stop until I reaquired the site picture - this really slowed me down, and I felt much better about the follow through.
As a side note, I finally felt the infamous "reset" I have heard about lol. Pistol felt good at that point, just felt a definite "click" and it was ready to shoot the next round.
I should mention, I did do four 10 minute 'dry fire' sessions at home the past week. I think even that little practice seemed to help my grip and trigger pull smoothness.
Last item, I loaded a mag to 17 rounds to see what it felt like firing. I think I did not rack the slide firmly as I had to reseat the very first round. Otherwise ok.
My FS9 M&P HRL3xxx again had no issues, 520 rounds to date.
I did not make it to any instruction yet, but had a few changes to note.
I fired 50 rounds of Federal Champion 115 gr FMC, then 50 rounds of Freedom Munitions 124 gr FMJ RN.
Oddly, I wasn't prepared how much more I liked the 124 gr munition. It felt, I don't know, more "solid"? Like it gave a bit more "pop" than the 115 gr round. It's hard to describe. One of my future SD ammo options is Speer GD 124 gr hollowpoint, so if it feels like this, I'll be happy.
I had also obtained some NRA GB-8 (CP) targets to score a set of rounds. I shot 1 set of ten at 25 yards to see what I would score. I'll post that pic shortly.
The rest of the rounds I shot at the usual 7 yards.
I focused on front site, squeeze to the bang, and "holding" the trigger at the stop until I reaquired the site picture - this really slowed me down, and I felt much better about the follow through.
As a side note, I finally felt the infamous "reset" I have heard about lol. Pistol felt good at that point, just felt a definite "click" and it was ready to shoot the next round.
I should mention, I did do four 10 minute 'dry fire' sessions at home the past week. I think even that little practice seemed to help my grip and trigger pull smoothness.
Last item, I loaded a mag to 17 rounds to see what it felt like firing. I think I did not rack the slide firmly as I had to reseat the very first round. Otherwise ok.
My FS9 M&P HRL3xxx again had no issues, 520 rounds to date.
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tat2dchad
Member
wow after reading all these"professional" shooters critiques .....if he followed every bit of advice here he would end up shooting in circles. yall know so much you must never miss. even though half of you dont agree with the other half. to many chiefs not enough indians
IMO...its all your trigger finger, and the answer is pratice
IMO...its all your trigger finger, and the answer is pratice
Rastoff
US Veteran
That 7 yard target is a good improvement considering you've been off a little while. Notice that the spread, left to right, is similar to the 25 yard target.
I think you're doing great. It takes practice to tighten those groups. I would counsel you to do more dry practice.
I have a personal theory about heavier bullets and a more "solid" feeling. First, they do deliver more recoil. That's simple physics. More than that though, the solid feeling you had may help to firm up your grip without making it a death grip. This is good for shooting; relaxed but firm.
I think you're doing great. It takes practice to tighten those groups. I would counsel you to do more dry practice.
I have a personal theory about heavier bullets and a more "solid" feeling. First, they do deliver more recoil. That's simple physics. More than that though, the solid feeling you had may help to firm up your grip without making it a death grip. This is good for shooting; relaxed but firm.
Rastoff
US Veteran
This is the problem with asking for advice on the internet. You're guaranteed to get some good info, some bad info and some that's just a different way to look at it. You then have to sift through all the stuff and pick out the good stuff. Not always easy to do.
Well been almost exactly 1 year since I joined the forum. So I went to the range today.
Shot 50x115 Federal FMJ RN (first pic) and 100x124 Freedom Munition RN FMJ (second pic).
I set target to 7 yards. My best in 115 was 2", in 124, 3".
Squeezed the grip pretty tight strong hand today, and felt like my trigger finger was more isolated. In fact I squeezed so hard the Talon Grips I installed came off lol.
I peeled off the Talon Grip and continued shooting. It actually left a sticky residue that helped, I may just leave it.
Anyways, had one FTL as I believe I did not fully rack the slide. Otherwise no issues.
Still loving the Apex trigger, DCAEK and Trijicon HD yellow fronts.
I have added a small piece of skateboard tape right side of the slide to help me "feel" my right thumb was in the right place.
Fun day at the range.
Shot 50x115 Federal FMJ RN (first pic) and 100x124 Freedom Munition RN FMJ (second pic).
I set target to 7 yards. My best in 115 was 2", in 124, 3".
Squeezed the grip pretty tight strong hand today, and felt like my trigger finger was more isolated. In fact I squeezed so hard the Talon Grips I installed came off lol.
I peeled off the Talon Grip and continued shooting. It actually left a sticky residue that helped, I may just leave it.
Anyways, had one FTL as I believe I did not fully rack the slide. Otherwise no issues.
Still loving the Apex trigger, DCAEK and Trijicon HD yellow fronts.
I have added a small piece of skateboard tape right side of the slide to help me "feel" my right thumb was in the right place.
Fun day at the range.
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Rastoff
US Veteran
Those targets are much improved.
What do you mean by, index right index finger along the frame? Your support index finger should be on top of your other fingers on the grip.
What do you mean by, index right index finger along the frame? Your support index finger should be on top of your other fingers on the grip.
