Concealable Revolver for Black Bears?

[WVfishguy]

In West (By God!) Virginia, we have a ridiculous amount of wild animals of every kind in every place, except black bears (thank God!). I'm scared of bears.

While this state has plenty of them, black bears have not invaded WV suburbs, unlike deer and everything else. You generally have to go into the woods to see bear. (But I have spoken to folks with bears in their yards, tearing up bird feeders and eating all their dog food.)

If I was going to get a .357 snub, the Speed Six would be my choice, as it is a very strong little gun.
The top gun is a custom Service Six with a true 3" barrel and round butt. The bottom gun is my wife's stock Speed Six, with a 2-3/4 inch barrel:

To the OP - if you can get a Speed Six for $350, I'd snag it. Those little Rugers are getting very expensive - I've seen them sell go for more than twice that price.
If I was carrying a .357 for bear, I don't think I'd use 158 JHP - I'd use a heavier, hard lead SWC bullet, or at least a full metal jacket. And you'll want rubber grips for full house loads out of a Speed Six.

 

[mtscout]

Prey runs, so don't run. Group together to appear larger than the bear, and make plenty of noise. Bear spray works, according to everything I have ever read and several park rangers in north Georgia, where we have a home and many black bears.

However, I would not pass on the opportunity to purchase a new (or used) handgun while the wife is scared, so I suggest you go shopping. When we are picking blackberries in the mountains I usually carry a 4" S&W #629 .44 mag, #657 MG .41 mag, #58 .41 mag, or a recently acquired #1076 10mm.

Dana Safety Supply in Columbia, S.C. has a used S&W #325 .45 a.c.p. revolver for around $700.00 if you want a lighter gun that shoots big bullets.

True words,
Never pass an opportunity to purchase a new gun, and lots of ammo for it.


We also live where black bears frequent the back yard.
I have manufactured a 'bear grenade', made of 2inch firecrackers wrapped up in a ball (about softball size), using duct tape to keep everything together. The effect is about four seconds of fireworks going off at your 'too close' visitor.
However, with a young child in your home a pump action 12 gauge is the best thing, always keeping it handy.
SW's 629 is my favorite. Don't be concern with concealment. It's your property, and you are only defending your family.
Bear spray does work. I have friends who have turned a charging Grizz with pepper spray.
Black bears do have a route they travel, usually in the same direction, and about 3 days in length. Perhaps you can watch and possibly predict when this bear is due to return.
Remember to take photo's of the bear on your property. Might come in handy if you have to put him down.

I had to put one down a few years back. The FWP was looking at me pretty hard, it was a big good looking male, and it was a month before the season open. I shot it at the back door, it staggered back and died in the yard. Long story short, a neighbor 1/2mile away had been feeding him table scraps off his back porch.
FWP was pissed! And they kept the bear.

 

[AKsRule]

Ok.

It's fun to talk about guns and Doomsday scenarios but there
is also reality.

As a responsible PA citizen and rural resident/hunter I feel I
should post the following.

PA Game Commission

Subchapter C. Destruction of Game or Wildlife in Self-Defense

2141. Killing game or wildlife to protect person.

(a) General rule. - It is unlawful for a person to kill any game or wildlife as a means of protection unless it is clearly evident from all the facts that a human is endangered to a degree that the immediate destruction of the game or wildlife is necessary.

(b) Report, safekeeping and investigation. - A person killing any game or wildlife under this subchapter shall report the event to an officer as soon as possible following the incident but in no case later than 24 hours, provide for safekeeping of the game or wildlife intact at the place where it was killed and be available for interview by the officer. The person killing the game or wildlife shall answer, without evasion, any pertinent questions of the officer making the investigation.

(c) Exoneration. - At the conclusion of any investigation when any game or wildlife is allegedly killed as protection to a person, the officer may exonerate the person for the otherwise unlawful killing of the game or wildlife. In all cases the officer shall seize and dispose of the game or wildlife as required by this title or upon instructions of the director.

(d) Prosecution. - Any officer making an investigation when game or wildlife was allegedly killed as a protection to a person shall proceed with prosecution as though the game or wildlife was unlawfully killed if the officer is dissatisfied with the explanation of the person killing the game or wildlife or if the physical facts of the killing do not support and sustain the facts alleged by the person killing the game or wildlife.

(e) Penalties. - A violation of this section relating to:

(1) Threatened or endangered species is a misdemeanor of the third degree.

(2) Elk or bear is a summary offense of the first degree.

(3) Deer is a summary offense of the second degree.

(4) Bobcat or otter is a summary offense of the third degree.

(5) Wild turkey or beaver is a summary offense of the fourth degree.

(6) Any other game or wildlife is a summary offense of the fifth degree.

.

 

[kbm6893]

Ok.

It's fun to talk about guns and Doomsday scenarios but there
is also reality.

As a responsible PA citizen and rural resident/hunter I feel I
should post the following.

PA Game Commission

Subchapter C. Destruction of Game or Wildlife in Self-Defense

2141. Killing game or wildlife to protect person.

(a) General rule. - It is unlawful for a person to kill any game or wildlife as a means of protection unless it is clearly evident from all the facts that a human is endangered to a degree that the immediate destruction of the game or wildlife is necessary.

(b) Report, safekeeping and investigation. - A person killing any game or wildlife under this subchapter shall report the event to an officer as soon as possible following the incident but in no case later than 24 hours, provide for safekeeping of the game or wildlife intact at the place where it was killed and be available for interview by the officer. The person killing the game or wildlife shall answer, without evasion, any pertinent questions of the officer making the investigation.

(c) Exoneration. - At the conclusion of any investigation when any game or wildlife is allegedly killed as protection to a person, the officer may exonerate the person for the otherwise unlawful killing of the game or wildlife. In all cases the officer shall seize and dispose of the game or wildlife as required by this title or upon instructions of the director.

(d) Prosecution. - Any officer making an investigation when game or wildlife was allegedly killed as a protection to a person shall proceed with prosecution as though the game or wildlife was unlawfully killed if the officer is dissatisfied with the explanation of the person killing the game or wildlife or if the physical facts of the killing do not support and sustain the facts alleged by the person killing the game or wildlife.

(e) Penalties. - A violation of this section relating to:

(1) Threatened or endangered species is a misdemeanor of the third degree.

(2) Elk or bear is a summary offense of the first degree.

(3) Deer is a summary offense of the second degree.

(4) Bobcat or otter is a summary offense of the third degree.

(5) Wild turkey or beaver is a summary offense of the fourth degree.

(6) Any other game or wildlife is a summary offense of the fifth degree.

.

I'm not looking to shoot an animal. I swerve my car to avoid squirells in the road. This thing was just too close. It decided it wanted nothing to do with us, which I am grateful for. This isn't fun and doomsday scenario. My 3 year old son was playing with his Big Wheel in the driveway, and I was unarmed. if that bear chose to attack any of us, I was defenseless. As a retired cop, I am aware of the legal BS that people have to go through when they fire a shot. if Ranger Rick wants to come over and ask me why I shot a 300 pound bear with teeth and claws 25 feet from where my son was playing, he's more than welcome to. I'll worry about that later.

No offense at all to you. i appreciate the heads up on the laws, but the last time I saw a bear on my property, we were all on my elevated deck and in no danger. i would NEVER even think to get a gun at that point.

 

[old bear]

Why?

I still want to know why a black bear, or any bear for that matter, would have a need for a concealable revolver of any kind, and where would the bear conceal it?

 

[scooter123]

Ok.

It's fun to talk about guns and Doomsday scenarios but there
is also reality.

As a responsible PA citizen and rural resident/hunter I feel I
should post the following.

PA Game Commission

Subchapter C. Destruction of Game or Wildlife in Self-Defense

2141. Killing game or wildlife to protect person.

(a) General rule. - It is unlawful for a person to kill any game or wildlife as a means of protection unless it is clearly evident from all the facts that a human is endangered to a degree that the immediate destruction of the game or wildlife is necessary.

(b) Report, safekeeping and investigation. - A person killing any game or wildlife under this subchapter shall report the event to an officer as soon as possible following the incident but in no case later than 24 hours, provide for safekeeping of the game or wildlife intact at the place where it was killed and be available for interview by the officer. The person killing the game or wildlife shall answer, without evasion, any pertinent questions of the officer making the investigation.

(c) Exoneration. - At the conclusion of any investigation when any game or wildlife is allegedly killed as protection to a person, the officer may exonerate the person for the otherwise unlawful killing of the game or wildlife. In all cases the officer shall seize and dispose of the game or wildlife as required by this title or upon instructions of the director.

(d) Prosecution. - Any officer making an investigation when game or wildlife was allegedly killed as a protection to a person shall proceed with prosecution as though the game or wildlife was unlawfully killed if the officer is dissatisfied with the explanation of the person killing the game or wildlife or if the physical facts of the killing do not support and sustain the facts alleged by the person killing the game or wildlife.

(e) Penalties. - A violation of this section relating to:

(1) Threatened or endangered species is a misdemeanor of the third degree.

(2) Elk or bear is a summary offense of the first degree.

(3) Deer is a summary offense of the second degree.

(4) Bobcat or otter is a summary offense of the third degree.

(5) Wild turkey or beaver is a summary offense of the fourth degree.

(6) Any other game or wildlife is a summary offense of the fifth degree.

.

In a way it's odd that the animals that can pose the greatest threat to a human carry the most severe penalty for a "bad shooting". However, they are also probably highest on the list for disireability as trophies so it's probably fairly practical.

Fortunately for me in one way, I am close enough to the city of Detroit that bears aren't an issue, criminals on the other hand are a concern. It's why I never leave the house without my gun. While my home is in a good area with a good PD, at about 1 mile north of the Detroit border stuff does spill over.

 

[kbm6893]

Well, I just bought this very nice 686 2.5" for $575. Not much more than the 66 I was looking at, and a bit more stout.

 

[Stillwater788]

I still want to know why a black bear, or any bear for that matter, would have a need for a concealable revolver of any kind, and where would the bear conceal it?

I was just going to post that very same question. Here in NC, bears are not eligible for a concealed carry permit.

 

[Frank237]

Yes, I witnessed a Black Bear killed with a .357 (with available loads I expect a 2.5" to perform like the 4" that killed this bear 30 yrs ago.)
OK?

I was simply wondering if YOU killed a black bear with a 2.5" magnum.
As well as the circumstances.

FN in MT

 

[shawn mccarver]

This from Col. Jeff Cooper, March 2004:

"For bear defense the "Co-pilot" stands by itself, but though it is very handy, it is still a rifle and must be managed with two hands. Various outdoor jobs call for the use of both hands, and the big pistols - 44 Magnum and up - may be worn on the person with both hands free. A 12 gauge shotgun with proper slugs may deal with this job, if that is all you can lay your hands on, but you should not count on it.

Remember then the Gunsite Bear Rules:
1. Be alert.
2. Remember that bears are not cuddly.
3. Never enter bear country without a powerful firearm and the skill to use it well.
4. Never camp on a bear thoroughfare.
5. Be alert."

 

[Messer]

I was just going to post that very same question. Here in NC, bears are not eligible for a concealed carry permit.

Didn't you guys ever read the Constitution?

You have a right to keep and arm bears!

On a more serious note - I have black bears around my house. One walking through my yard will make me take notice - but they seem to have no interest in being around people/dogs, and move though quickly. While in my yard, I usually have a handgun on me - most likely a Glock model 33 these days, and a loaded Rem. 870 12 Ga. is always in the house.

When I go hiking in the woods, that changes things a bit - I have walked up on a Momma bear with cubs already. For this duty, I want power & penetration, and recently picked up a model S&W 657 3" 41 Magnum as my hiking gun.

Take care,
Bob S.

 

[batmann]

I guess I'm in the minority here as I always advise going with a .44M in a 2.5" configuration for a trail gun. My reasoning is as follows:
1-Most 'snub nose' .44's do not weigh much more than an an equal size .357M
2-You can down load a .44M to .357M ballistics but you cannot up load a .357 to .44 ballistics
3-The use of a .44M also allows you to use .44 specials. Buffalo Bore makes an outstanding 'heavy' .44 special load that should handle a Black Bear, if needed. Cor-Bon makes a great 165 gr HP in either a Mag or a Spl that is designed for SD, wouldn't make a bad trail either.
4-IMHO, a hot .357 out of a light weight revolver is harder to handle than a 'light' .44M load out of a Ruger Alaskan or a S&W Backpacker and you have the ability to shoot the 'heavy specials.
5-I don't worry about the lose of velocity in 2.5 vs 4", it is not enough to worry about.

 

[Jst1mr]

Guess it is just me. I cross paths with black bears constantly while fishing and hunting, even BBQing in the back yard, and just consider it part of living here. I have bird feeders out, but take them in at night, and keep the trash in the garage. I discourage those I encounter in the yard (usually only takes a good holler, though I have fired a "warning shot" from an upstairs window before, and did deliver a whump to the ribs of one with a rubber blunt-tipped arrow), but I certainly don't feel overtly threatened because one happens to pass by. I would suggest an air horn pepper spray if anything, and understand the concern with your son, but you honestly stand a better chance of getting hit by lightning or having a tree fall on you than needing to defend yourself. A poorly placed shot from any handgun into a bear that was just passing by (no matter how close), is very probably only going to make the immediate situation worse. I guess it is a function of familiarity....I'm sure anyone from the South would roll around laughing at MY reaction to a snake!!!

 

[rburg]

I'm sure anyone from the South would roll around laughing at MY reaction to a snake!!!

I live amongst hillbillies and red necks. We wear that title with pride. And as most southern folks are prone to do, we see a snake that even remotely looks like one that might be venomous, we just dispatch it. Post haste. Thats why here in Kentucky, the term snake is always considered in the past tense. "That were a nasty old slithering varmint".

Anyone leaving one alive is considered to be less than a man. Worse, they're also assumed to be a very poor shot or not handy with tools.

I live in a triangle roughly formed at the corners by Louisville, Lexington, and Covington. The three population centers of my state. The local wildlife folks around here state with complete certainty that there are no poisonous snakes in this area. They've similarly said there are no mountain lions, bears, or other interesting critters here. As you get down in the country a bit, the old timers just smile and laugh. They're laughing at how the commonwealth wastes our tax dollars, paying these fools who don't have open eyes.

On the OPs question....Us gun nuts are in awe at the chance and good reason to pick up another handgun. To me, it seems like you need one of the light weight Scandium magnums. Bottom of the considered guns would be the very fine 7 shot 386. It doesn't weigh much so you can have it on you at all times. Better would be the 329 44 magnum or the 357 41 magnum. These are carry guns, not shooting guns. They hurt with full house loadings. But they sure do shoot as hard as their bloated, overweight steel counterparts. I recommend them highly. In fact, I'd suggest buying all 3 if you can get your wife scared enough to allow it!

 

[captainjohnsofd]

I live at the Delaware Water Gap on the NJ side. Black bear activity is at its peak now with spring feeding. The MOST dangerous is a sow with cubs. To get between momma and her cubs is to have a death wish. When I hike I carry the big can of bear spray- it is the size of a small fire extinguisher and has a range of 30 ft. A concealable firearm is a last resort as far as I am concerned. Whatever you carry the load must be a great penetrator since the bone and muscle structure is very strong. Aim for the nose regardless. Eye sockets are also a good spot. I have read that an NYPD cop killed a polar bear at the Bronx Zoo years ago with a .38 Special but I am not that brave.

 

[Matt C.]

I was simply wondering if YOU killed a black bear with a 2.5" magnum.
As well as the circumstances.

FN in MT

As I said it was a 4" gun and we were chasing hounds. I had a rifle but did not get a shot (or need to).
Sorry if I was rude.

 

[38-44HD45]

I've not read the whole thread, but I simply had to read the original post, to see if the concern was that one might lose the element of surprise if the bear saw the gun! Then I see that the cause for concern is genuine and justified, though the phrase, "...gunfight with a bear<' was amusing. Weeeelllll, here are my suggestions to the OP:

First, stop doing yard work. Bending, stooping and such is bad for you and causes orthopedic and neurological damage. When you stop that, then carrying the 686 won't be a problem. Better yet, sit out on the porch sipping a cold one while you watch someone else do the yard work, with the 686 at your side. One problem solved.

Second, those 2 3/4" Rugers you've mentioned are nifty little guns. I shot a few of my .357 carbine loads through my 2 3/4" Speed Six recently. The load is a 187gr. LBT GC bullet from Cast Performance over a large dose of WW 296. It runs at 1914 fps. from my Marlin 1894, and at 1356 fps. from the 2 3/4" Ruger. Recoil is brisk, but would be less so in the 686. In either one, for blackies, the .357 wouldn't be bad, though I'd prefer a 12 ga. with slugs.

 

[Jst1mr]

From what I've seen of those colorful and devastating splashes on a Caldwell paper target, a Taurus Judge with #9 shot in .410 looks to be good bear medicine...

 

[ColbyBruce]

This is suposed to be the skull of a three year old black bear. It had some pretty big teeth. I wouldn't pick a fight with one.

 

[senecaap]

First, I wouldn't be too concerned about Black Bears to begin with. There are fewer than 10 attacks on humans documented in the past century by Black Bears so it just isn't anything to be concerned about.

Well there have been 2 fatal attacks in East Tennessee in the last 10 years that spring to mind (1 young girl one elderly lady). Several back country camp sites in the Great Smoky Mountains Natl. Park have been closed recently due to AGGRESSIVE Black Bear activity. Are all the sociopath black bears in TN? 10 Black Bear attacks in the last century is uhm,...TOTAL BS, the author has obviously partaken of groovy 'shrooms.
Black Bear attack is a real danger, they are a top predator and are very well equipped to turn you into lunch. Many are fairly passive, even seeming as tame as a pet. Others are violent and territorial. Hard to tell them apart. The anatomy is very heavy and dense, they are tough physically and when they are angered they will fight to the death. A sow with cubs is one of the scariest things on land I can think of. IF you see or hear a bear cub, hit the road.
I would definitely get the bear spray, you don't want to kill the bear if you don't have to. Bears also don't like loud noises. One of my friends hooked a motion sensor up to a vacuum cleaner set in a metal wash tub. He watched a 400 lb bear got too close one night, and when the vacuum motor started beating the metal, the bear galloped off fast as a shot.
As far as the pistol, the .357 is ok if that is all you have, or can handle. My choice would be something in the .45acp/.44 Spec.-Mag area. Heavy bullets is what you want, and velocity doesn't have to be through the roof. Some I would suggest, a Horton 3" M-24/624, a S&W 696, the Nightguard .44, or any very reliable 1911.

 

[slowburninsteve]

I still want to know why a black bear, or any bear for that matter, would have a need for a concealable revolver of any kind, and where would the bear conceal it?

You beat me to it!!!!

 

[kbm6893]

I appreciate the comments. Bear spray will be purchased, but the 2.5" 686 will be my new companion while out and about in my yard.

 

[bigbore45colt]

kbm6893,

Where in NE PA are you? I spend a good bit of time in Wyoming County in the mountains there and run across bears frequently. I know the feeling.

I'd just keep your 4" 686 and get an IWB holster. It will keep it concealed enough for the neighbors, especially with an untucked shirt, even a t-shirt.

Reason I ask where you're from is an interest in those used Ruger 3" 357s at your local dealer...what dealer? I'd be interested in chasing one of those down.

BB45C

 

[kbm6893]

kbm6893,

Where in NE PA are you? I spend a good bit of time in Wyoming County in the mountains there and run across bears frequently. I know the feeling.

I'd just keep your 4" 686 and get an IWB holster. It will keep it concealed enough for the neighbors, especially with an untucked shirt, even a t-shirt.

Reason I ask where you're from is an interest in those used Ruger 3" 357s at your local dealer...what dealer? I'd be interested in chasing one of those down.

BB45C

I'm in Miford. The dealer that had the Rugers is Guns and Gold, in Milford. There were 6 Rugers there the last time I was in, now there are 2. I am almost positive a few of them were 3", but the only two left are both 2.25", a Security Six and a Speed Six. Both $325. Kind of dirty, but will clean up nicely. I splurged on a very nice 686 2.5" last night from gunbroker. Got it for $575, and it looks mint. Comes with the S&W light wood finger groove grips. Even a bit cheaper than the 66 I was looking at. So that will go with me when I hang outside.

 

[kbm6893]

I have read that an NYPD cop killed a polar bear at the Bronx Zoo years ago with a .38 Special but I am not that brave.

I knew that cop. I don't recall his name, but he was a big Irish guy. And it was the Brooklyn Zoo, which was located in Prospect Park. The shot was kind of overblown because he made it while leaning over the fence into the bear cage. he was never in danger. And the bear was very close, like less than 15 feet. He was leaning down into the cage. One 158 grain FMJ round did the bear in, fired from a 4" model 10.

 

[BlueMax_VMF114]

For those that have never felt the power of the Alaskan 454 read this its been around the forums for a few years,but its a good read.Also this was a brown bear not black

Bear Killed in Self Defense with Ruger .454 Casull Revolver - Takdriver's Forum

 

[user]

You specifically asked about a concealable revolver adequate for killing black bears, right?

The only thing that comes to mind for me is either the model 29 (blue) or 629 (stainless) "Mountain Gun". These have a tapered four inch barrel and shoot .44 magnum cartridges. They tend to be special runs, and they don't make 'em all the time, but you see 'em advertised fairly often on this and other boards. I got my model 29 for six hundred bucks a couple of years back, and I think they're going for a bit more than that, now. I put an XS nightsight on the front, and got the S&W "master revolver action package" done to it. Holsters, laser and other grip-stocks, and nightsights are readily available.

I got mine to carry with me around on our heavily wooded farm in Western West Virginia. Besides, it goes with the Marlin 1894 .44 lever action carbine. Only have to carry one kind of ammo.

I don't think I'd trust a .357 for black bears in an emergency. If I had time to aim carefully, sure, that would more than do it, but I carry the revolver for the sudden emergencies. But if you are going to stick with the 686, get you a Marlin lever gun in that caliber, too.

 

[chp]

Why concealable? The bears won't "make" you carrying JK

 

[zzclancy]

In Colorado we have a problem with bears, mountain lions and coyotes, especially in the western suburbs of Denver. I carry a 4" 629 in a Krammer forward tilt belt scabbard. I use the same holster for my 4" model 21 (44spl). The bears around here don't seem to care if I open carry or conceal carry (just kidding).

 

[yaktamer]

I haven't read all of the posts in the thread, but I concur with those who contend that black bears generally aren't a threat and, unless you're legally hunting you want to avoid shooting one unless absolutely a life or limb last resort.

More to the point, I took a bear last fall using a 4" model 681. This would not have been my weapon of choice (nor was the ammo I happened to have that day). We were turkey hunting, but it was the second day of bear season and I had a bear tag when we stumbled on one in a meadow.

Would I use a .357 to take a bear again? Maybe, but I agree with Matt C.'s post above -- Buffalo Bore 180 LFNGC or equivalent (a lot to handle out of a snubby). Would I want to rely on a .357 against a charging bear at close range in a self defense situation? Not unless it's a mismarked .44 or .45LC.