Copper Solvents

[CCantu357]

One thing that I have always wondered, is what solvents did people use for removing prior to the last 30 years or so? I know copper solvents such as Shooter's Choice, Hoppe's Benchrest, and Remington Bore Cleaner came out in the 1980s, and since then there have been many new solvents that remover copper. So that always made me wonder, what did shooters who demanded accuracy use before these newer products came out?

 

[Hang-Fire Hank]

SWEETS

I believe "Sweets" as a copper remover has been around more than 30 yrs. I began using it in 1982. Works quite well. Although I mostly shoot my own cast bullets in antique rifles, whenever I shoot jacketed bullets in a modern gun (e.g. 7mm-08), I routinely use Sweets after removing the powder fouling. Patches come out Blue, diminishing in color after each succeeding pass.

Hank M.

 

[stansdds]

I don't know when dedicated copper solvents first appeared, but I guess it was shortly after someone discovered that ammonia dissolves copper gilding material.

 

[Rule3]

If you do some research you will find that not many products actually do a good job of "dissolving" copper. It is mostly advertising. Ammonia will work but needs to be a higher concentration.
KG 12 is one of the few that works.


Most copper (and lead) are removed by mechanical action such as using a a good NEW bore brush,


But then a debate on the best super duper, magical gun cleaner will develop. It really doesn't matter. just use something and use elbow grease. Most of the claims are "snake oil"



Gun Cleaning Product Tests

Copper Fouling Test​

Product Fouling Removal Product Fouling Removal Accubore Slight Kroil None Barnes CR-10 Moderate Marksman's Choice MC-7 Slight BreakFree CLP None Marksman's Choice Copper Solvent Moderate Butch's Bore Shine Very Slight M-Pro 7 Slight Ed's Red Very Slight M-Pro 7 Copper Remover High Hoppes #9 None Pro Tech None Household Ammonia None Sweets 7.62 Moderate 10% Janitor's Ammonia Moderate to high KG12 High Master's Bore Cleaner Slight Sam & Dave's #1 Slight to moderate

 

[brucev]

Used Hoppes No. 9 on everything. It worked. No problems. Nowadays ... use Shooters Choice. Works fine. No problems. Sincerely. bruce.

 

[JH1951]

I used surplus GI bore cleaner.... It worked quite well, and had the distinct odor of ammonia. IIRC it was also somewhat corrosive, and had to be removed somewhat promptly.

 

[stansdds]

I used surplus GI bore cleaner.... It worked quite well, and had the distinct odor of ammonia. IIRC it was also somewhat corrosive, and had to be removed somewhat promptly.

Ammonia is corrosive, it reacts with chrome, leading to pitting of chromed surfaces and steel that contains chrome. Ammonia is hygroscopic, so it attracts water, which will damage ferrous metals and aluminum. It's copper dissolving properties creates issues with surfaces that are nickel plated with an underlying layer of copper. One little break in the nickel will allow the ammonia to begin dissolving the underlying copper, then the nickel flakes away.



When using solvents that contain ammonia, do not allow the solvent to remain on the surface for more than a few minutes.



By the way, S&W did not apply copper before nickel plating their firearms.

 

[gwpercle]

Back in the day Hoppes No. 9 , WW II Army surplus G.I. bore cleaner ( I still have a small can) and then Ed's Red Bore Cleaner were what was available . The Army Bore Cleaner smelled rather "unpleasant" when the surplus market started to dry up Ed Harris developed his Red Bore Cleaner...it smells a lot better than G.I. Army surplus but not as good as Hoppes #9 .
Today everybody and his brother puts out a magical mix ...
truth is not much beats Ed's Red and a $20.00 bill will buy the four ingredients to mix up a whole gallon .
Gary

 

[chief38]

On the rare occasion I need to use Copper solvent I use Hoppes Copper Solvent with the black label. Seems to work just fine.

 

[Jimmy4570]

Copper solvents long term harm?

Had an off and on correspondence with Mr. Wil Schumann, barrelmaker extraordinaire back in the early 2000's regarding some research he and other barrel makers did concerning barrel cleaning, accuracy, erosion, wear and barrel life. It was published in either of two now defunct but wonderful publications, "Tactical Shooter" or "Precision Rifle" back in the mid 90's. Bottom line, any sort of solvent will continue to work on barrel steel unless completely, completely flushed out. Subsequent fouling will trap solvent that will continue over time to eat at whatever it can, thus, increasing the rate of wear in a tube.

Mr. Schumann's and his team's conclusion was that- particularly with regard to jacketed ammo- a good quality barrel will foul up to a point and stay there. Best bet is to focus on keeping the chamber of your firearm clean but largely leave the barrel alone.

Since then I've followed his advice on my pistols and rifles. Particularly my issue pieces, that have seen thousands of rounds of jacketed ammunition, I've found that they've maintained good, consistent accuracy, even better than most all of my colleagues who run brushes and solvents down their bores. Once in a while I'll scrub with Kroil or Mili-Tec and JB bore paste out of a probably misplaced sense of guilt but really I find that following Wil Schumann's advice I've saved a lot of time cleaning and think that my rifles, carbines and pistols have been better off for it.

 

[Jimmy4570]

Barrel maker alibi

My apologies to Mr. Scheumann for misspelling his name. Here's the article...

http://www.schuemann.com/Portals/0/Documentation/Webfile_Barrel_Cleaning.pdf