CORE RDS Question

[Beetle_Bailey]

Greetings, this is my first post on the forum, so pls feel free to point me in the right direction if I'm in the wrong place.

I just ordered my MP9L Pro CORE. While I'm waiting for it to arrive, I started looking for an RDS that will cowitness. The top the on my list are Deltapoint pro, Trijicon rmr06, and Venom. I'd appreciate any first hand advice on 1) if any of these cowitness, 2) experience w 3 vs 6 moa (I have an astigmatism & my eyes are old, everything is blurry on iron sights) and electrical performance.

Thanks!

 

[okiegtrider]

I think you are in the right place. My own experience is mainly with the RM06. Have been shooting with it and carrying it daily on a G23 for about six month now. Co-witnesses fine with the suppressor height sights I have on my gun. I have been well pleased with my choice, even if it did smart in the wallet some. I doubt I have to tell you that though.

There have been some great posts on this board by several members who have put in more time with these guns than I have. Notably, CB3 and Steved13, both have posted some things on the subject of using red dots on handguns that I have found very helpful. Welcome to the board. Lot of experience here and folks are generous with it.

Couple threads I'd recommend to you that have kicked the subject around pretty good:
Co-witness problem with RMR on 9L CORE

red dot on M&P 9 full size

 

[kmanick]

I have one of the PC 9L's. I got mine with the jpoint/Shield mini sight already installed on it.
It's a great match as it sits very low and has a nice co witness. I tried a Vortex Venom on
it as well (I had one for my ruger Mark III) and it does not co witness, but is still a pretty nice sight.
if you can afford the Sig Romeo I'd take a look at one of those too.
I shot a Sig MK25 last night that had one mounted on it and it was really easy to "find the dot" from a draw.

 

[CB3]

I don't know your priorities, with the use of this gun being the first.

Co-witnessing, budget, dot size, window size, clarity, sight adjustability, robustness, warranty, battery life, and more figure into your decision.

Co-witnessing is important for many reasons as you seem to recognize. Unless the CORE has very tall sights, you will likely have a very low cowitness (<20%, with 25% being the goal). The milled part of the CORE slide requires a plate to mount any optic, and that raises the sight, partially defeating the advantage of lowering the sight into a dove tail.

Because the sight is mounted to the plate and not secured fore and aft in a dove tail, there is more stress on the sight mounting screws, which are also shorter than the screws used in a custom milled dovetail. IOW, IMO you are starting behind the curve with using a red dot sight with the generic mounting system on a CORE.

My normal recommendation would be to get the adjustable dot RMR06, 3 MOA dot. I use this and when the dot is used at setting 3 to 5 it will not "starburst" like larger, brighter (non-adjustable) dots tend to do. A smaller dot is also more accurate IMO. Trijicon RMRs are as tough as these sights get. Deltapoint Pro is good also, but with slightly different features and mounting.

My concern is that you may not like red dot shooting if you don't have a good mount with adequate co-witness or, if you do like it, you may find the CORE set up not to your liking and will have to start over with a custom milled gun. You could use a good RDS from the CORE on another gun, so I guess I am recommending the RMR06.

I have a Shield, a FS M&P and a Glock 19 with red dot sights, all milled. This is a great sighting system, especially for challenged eyes, but there are some nuances that can make a set up harder or easier to use. Other posts of mine address these issues.

Good luck.

 

[stavey]

I prefer 3 moa dots 6 is too big for target shooting etc in my opinion.
I also really like the docter ll sights. The dot is perfect as is the glass. They cowitness nice and are very robust.

 

[mlk18]

I went with the JPoint as it is rugged, lightweight and co-witnesses. You do have to remove the sight to change the battery (about every 18 months or so) but it has been very easy to rezero. Also everything is automatic (always on, auto brightness, etc.) which is nice.

 

[tlay]

I have a Sig 320RX with the Romeo RDS. It is my first carry gun with a RDS. It took a while to get used to it versus iron sights. But I find my times coming down and getting better for a draw and getting on target with my RDS versus irons.
I too have old eyes. Irons were getting fuzzy. A RDS solves that problem. I really like the Romeo sight. It turns itself off until you draw and it comes back on. I don't know about battery life yet.
I would highly recommend getting a lot of practice with it before putting it on for carry.

 

[CB3]

I recall reading that the DP Pro will not fit on a CORE. Better check on that if it is still on your list.

Here is a link to a forum discussing the Sig Romeo. There is also a link in there to a previous article on RDS that are not as robust as the RMR and DP--which is about everything else. DON'T BUY A CHEAP RED DOT SIGHT

There are RDS that fit a budget and work OK for range use if handled carefully, as most of us do with our guns. Gun fighting/self defense is a different world that requires a higher level of performance, reliability and ruggedness. You will pay for that Tier 1 reputation, but usually only $2-300 more, which is worth it for the intended purpose IMO.

When a person claims a $200 RDS is rugged, they have not tested it to be so, nor read the in depth head-to-head comparison abuse tests available on the inter webs. What they typically mean is their sight has stood up to their handling, which for most people means they baby the gun.

I have nothing against people buying what they can afford, especially if they are just trying out a new sighting system and are not ready to commit to it.

This goes for the mounting system as well as the optic. Milling a slide is permanent (although a saddle restores the look and weight of the slide when an optic is not mounted). Other mounting methods can work, just not as well or perhaps as long as milling. Often milling is only $50 more than a removable mount. Worth it to me.

Just be sure not to confuse, "This will work" with "This is the best way to do this as advised by a wide range of experienced users." A few hours of in depth research will probably lead you to making an informed decision for your intended purposes, budget and desires.

BTW, this is a new arena. Even the best optics have room for improvement, and mounting systems may mature too. I expect the pistol RDS world to advance in technology over the next five years, making much of what is available today somewhat obsolete.

 

[stavey]

I have thousands of rounds through each of my pistols I have 3 w. docter ll optics they have never failed me 1 is a p227 45acp. I have a g41 45acp w. fastfire 3 it has never failed me.However I have an original deltapoint on my core 9mm that optic **** the bed after about 100 rnds if that. Back it went. Leupold , dot isn't as clear either is the glass not to mention very fragile. Now the new deltapoint is supposedly rugged however it is huge and does NOT cowitness. Leupold is nothing special sorry to burst some of your bubbles. There is a reason docter ll used to ride on the Marines acogs there is also a reason trijicon bought Docter out recently. I know what works for me. Rest assured my pistols get shot.

 

[CB3]

I'll just leave this here.

http://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/7dc128_c8da57977a8c4b53903192fa603fce6f.pdf

 

[k2ue]

I would recommend the Shield RMS 8MOA, discounted at LoneWolf.

 

[CB3]

Here's another article, although it relies in great part on the longer article I linked to earlier.
The Ultimate Guide to Pistol Mounted Red Dot Sights - Tier Three Tactical

 

[stavey]

Between the leupold "PRO" and an Trijicon rmr.
Not even a question.
RMR FOR THE WIN.
I'd buy a fastfire 3 and 400$ in boolits before the dp "pro"

 

[Saudade]

Trijicon recently released the Type 2 RMR. The type 1 went on "fire sale" and I picked up a 3.5 MOA adjustable LED model for $350. Awesome!!