MCorps0311
US Veteran
I have no plans to travel to attend Church,or any sports events.I am 70 years old staying home.
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coronavirus
- Thread starter walkin jack
- Start date
Ohio Governor Mike DeWine just closed all schools for three weeks. Schoolwork will be done online.
It I had any passing thoughts as to denial, I surely don't now.
Wash your hands.
https://www.fox19.com/2020/03/12/watch-live-gov-dewine-health-officials-give-update-coronavirus/
It I had any passing thoughts as to denial, I surely don't now.
Wash your hands.
https://www.fox19.com/2020/03/12/watch-live-gov-dewine-health-officials-give-update-coronavirus/
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DWalt
Member
I wonder how that will work. Do all schools in Ohio have the capability for providing on-line schoolwork? Or is there some central State of Ohio website that provides it? And if so, why doesn't every student in the state use it, so all of the schools could be turned into parking lots and the teachers could flip burgers at McDonald's.
darmtn1917
Member
Perhaps you might wait a year before you do this comparison.
darmtn1917
Member
Containment appears to be the only thing that works on a large scale. The panic is already here.
The problem with closing schools is what do working parents do for childcare?
darmtn1917
Member
I think the middle-grounders are still trying to make up their minds - this is just starting.
I'm in the middle. I'm posting facts and asking questions.
In fact, I'm taking the same actions I did/do every pandemic/flu season regardless of what's happening around me- practicing good hygiene and avoiding people.
In fact, I'm taking the same actions I did/do every pandemic/flu season regardless of what's happening around me- practicing good hygiene and avoiding people.
LVSteve
Member
Aahh yes, childcare and sick leave, the two of the great "Somebody else's problems" in the eyes American society.
Mind you, neither comes close to how we pay for healthcare.
Earlier today, using MyChart, I messaged my PCP's, cardiologist's and electrophysiologist's offices asking for their take on me and the COVID-19 virus.
Boiled down they said: "don't go out unless absolutely necessary, wash my hands thoroughly and often and if I must go out to wear gloves.
I am at extreme risk so I am taking all precautions.
If that makes me a "sheeple" then so be it.
I wish you all the best of luck with this.
Boiled down they said: "don't go out unless absolutely necessary, wash my hands thoroughly and often and if I must go out to wear gloves.
I am at extreme risk so I am taking all precautions.
If that makes me a "sheeple" then so be it.
I wish you all the best of luck with this.
An infection rate that doubles every five days because no one has immunity combined with a death rate between 1-5% gets to staggering numbers very quickly. The flu has a death rate of .1%
Add in hospitals that are normally almost full and the death rate becomes like the situation Italy faces. People are sacrificed. If we can slow the infection rate the death rate can maybe be held to 1%
Add in hospitals that are normally almost full and the death rate becomes like the situation Italy faces. People are sacrificed. If we can slow the infection rate the death rate can maybe be held to 1%
Jon651
Member
On what are you basing your conclusions? Is it the CDC and NIH data? The numbers from other countries who are already dealing with this? So far, I have yet to see, hear or read a single news report that factually claimed "X number of people will die".
What I am disgusted with is that our federal government seems to be treating this like an economic issue with economic solutions. No amount of rate cutting, cash infusions, small business loans, or stimulus packages will cure a single case, reduce a single instance of transmission or prevent a single death. We need to recognize where we are on the epidemic curve and jump AHEAD several steps in order to flatten out the pattern of transmission, and so far the federal government has utterly failed to do that - and state/local governments and private entities are the ones stepping up and making the tough decisions.
I am high-risk. I don't have the luxury of denial.
Jon651
Member
Sorry but No, they are doing their best at reducing the potential for social transmission by following the advice of the professional epidemiologists employed by the CDC and the NIH. Just because you don't like what they are doing doesn't make it "spreading panic".
I am high risk. I will follow the experts' advice.
What do you want the federal government to do? Lock down the entire nation? Suspend the Constitution and declare martial law?
I'm being serious.
Absalom
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
The thing with this issue is that it won't be subject to anyone's opinion, or be impressed by any majority opinion or politician's wishful thinking.
That makes it different from all the fake crisis situations of the last few years, where you could just dial in to your favorite media, hear what you wanted to believe from either side, and bask in the warm fuzzies of being right. Since overall we've actually been in pretty good shape, your opinion only mattered for politics, not for real life.
Some people can't tell the difference. Like that clown who made jokes about coronavirus and wore a gask mask in Congress, and now is quarantined because, wouldn't you know it, he shook hands with an infected person. Life has a way to smack people like that in the nose.
So this isn't a matter of opinion. It's also not a matter of playing around with numbers to prove or disprove how bad it is. This is simply a matter of being safe and following the recommendations of the scientists.
The only thing you can be sure about is this:
Attachments
Jon651
Member
Ματθιας;140697554 said:
No, I don't think you are - because those things aren't encoded in the American genome. What I want to see is what state/local governments and private organizations are now doing (and the feds missed doing): Cancel or postpone events that draw large crowds; warn against mass travel such as cruises and airline flights; extend spring break for schools and universities; promote distance learning and remote working where possible; warn against congregating in close-quarters; and limit access to our most vulnerable populations in nursing homes and assisted-living facilities. When I hear these things being done, they are at the behest of school administrations, the NCAA, MLB, NBA, private corporations, big-city mayors and state governors. This is not an economic problem and has no economic solution.
The issues you stated are are state/local issues. No one knows state/local issues like the state/local governments and/or entities.
The feds have already said to do those things you listed. Again, what do you want the feds to do?
doublesharp
Member
VDH dispenses wisdom w/out hysteria
The Great Coronavirus War Is Upon Us
Victor Davis Hanson
3/12/2020 12:01:00 AM - Victor Davis Hanson
Try this thought experiment. Envision the coronavirus, also known as COVID-19, as a living, breathing enemy -- which, of course, is exactly what it is.
But imagine for a moment that we are in real war with a cognizant, thinking and clever enemy whose sole reason to live is to hurt, maim or kill as many of us as it can.
COVID-19 may not have jets, tanks or nukes, like our past enemies. But its arsenal, numbers, cunning and willpower are said to be formidable.
To win its war against Americans, COVID-19 must infect and sicken lots of Americans each day. If it cannot infect enough victims to multiply and sustain a hungry army of viruses, COVID-19 will soon sputter and die. It will get trapped in just a few hosts among an otherwise victorious and healthy nation of about 330 million.
Nature has given COVID-19 some weapons that its defeated cousins -- the H1N1 swine flu and the MERS and SARS viruses -- lacked.
It is more clever by being less lethal -- and a little tougher in its ability to live outside a host. Viral resiliency ensures that it rarely turns into a suicide bomber by dying with a terminally sick host, and that it does not perish so quickly when orphaned in the air and on surfaces.
The coronavirus has allies. It infiltrates our defenses by using our own weapons against us -- our dirty hands, the habitual touching of the face, and indiscreet sneezing and coughing.
Poor personal and public hygiene gives the virus some sustenance and camouflage. To win -- defined as sickening or killing thousands of us -- COVID-19 counts on our laxity. It hates careful individuals who block its invasion into the eyes, nose and mouth.
Remember, unlike our past human enemies, COVID-19 is invisible to the naked eye, even more so than the most stealthy terrorists or underground enemy agents. It does not leave a smell. It cannot be heard. It certainly cannot be touched. We know COVID-19 only by the damage it does to us, even after it has left, leaving its trail of fever, fatigue, congestion and labored breathing.
COVID-19 also relies on ignorance of its complexity and sophistication. It assumes that our experts will not learn how this new virus originated, how it spreads and how it sickens or kills.
So the virus hopes that we cannot effectively quarantine the sick, or at least not before a pandemic spreads.
In desperation, the enemy virus hopes that even if our researchers can quickly infiltrate the COVID-19 master borg and learn its deepest secrets, we will still be unable to treat it with medicines or prevent it with vaccines -- or at least not before it becomes a plague of biblical proportions.
To a popular culture that laps up creepy zombie movies, the virus certainly knows how to use its greatest weapons: fright and panic. As of early this week, the relatively lightweight bug had killed fewer than 30 Americans. But we seem to be acting as if it has already killed 200,000 of us.
If COVID-19 can create fear that we will end up like the grotesque monsters on television, perhaps we, its enemy, will go on hoarding binges that result in shortages of masks, gloves and supplies for the health providers who need them most.
Or, if the virus can scare us enough that we cease working and interacting, our canceled-out economy will grind to a halt.
Or maybe the coronavirus can cleverly keep hopping on jets between countries and states, sowing dissension as nations blame one other for its creation and contagion, and politicians seek to destroy each other rather than band together to kill the virus.
COVID-19 counts on globalization as it sneaks onto jets and ships. In a few hours, it can find a new home and new hosts to terrify -- even thousands of miles away.
It is a vengeful enemy. It knows we have killed off or rendered impotent most of its fellow viruses. Its cousin, the flu, has not since 1918 translated its annual tactical wins into a strategic pandemic victory.
Viruses and anti-human microbes have not had a major win in America in decades, perhaps not since polio used to terrorize, cripple and kill thousands of Americans annually.
COVID-19 believes our progress, confidence and sophistication are not our strengths but rather our greatest weakness, as our vanity and assumed invulnerability render us ripe for panic.
The battle is upon us. But if we stay calm and rational, we can easily defeat the enemy, whose reputation is likely far scarier than its reality.
The Great Coronavirus War Is Upon Us
The Great Coronavirus War Is Upon Us
Victor Davis Hanson
3/12/2020 12:01:00 AM - Victor Davis Hanson
Try this thought experiment. Envision the coronavirus, also known as COVID-19, as a living, breathing enemy -- which, of course, is exactly what it is.
But imagine for a moment that we are in real war with a cognizant, thinking and clever enemy whose sole reason to live is to hurt, maim or kill as many of us as it can.
COVID-19 may not have jets, tanks or nukes, like our past enemies. But its arsenal, numbers, cunning and willpower are said to be formidable.
To win its war against Americans, COVID-19 must infect and sicken lots of Americans each day. If it cannot infect enough victims to multiply and sustain a hungry army of viruses, COVID-19 will soon sputter and die. It will get trapped in just a few hosts among an otherwise victorious and healthy nation of about 330 million.
Nature has given COVID-19 some weapons that its defeated cousins -- the H1N1 swine flu and the MERS and SARS viruses -- lacked.
It is more clever by being less lethal -- and a little tougher in its ability to live outside a host. Viral resiliency ensures that it rarely turns into a suicide bomber by dying with a terminally sick host, and that it does not perish so quickly when orphaned in the air and on surfaces.
The coronavirus has allies. It infiltrates our defenses by using our own weapons against us -- our dirty hands, the habitual touching of the face, and indiscreet sneezing and coughing.
Poor personal and public hygiene gives the virus some sustenance and camouflage. To win -- defined as sickening or killing thousands of us -- COVID-19 counts on our laxity. It hates careful individuals who block its invasion into the eyes, nose and mouth.
Remember, unlike our past human enemies, COVID-19 is invisible to the naked eye, even more so than the most stealthy terrorists or underground enemy agents. It does not leave a smell. It cannot be heard. It certainly cannot be touched. We know COVID-19 only by the damage it does to us, even after it has left, leaving its trail of fever, fatigue, congestion and labored breathing.
COVID-19 also relies on ignorance of its complexity and sophistication. It assumes that our experts will not learn how this new virus originated, how it spreads and how it sickens or kills.
So the virus hopes that we cannot effectively quarantine the sick, or at least not before a pandemic spreads.
In desperation, the enemy virus hopes that even if our researchers can quickly infiltrate the COVID-19 master borg and learn its deepest secrets, we will still be unable to treat it with medicines or prevent it with vaccines -- or at least not before it becomes a plague of biblical proportions.
To a popular culture that laps up creepy zombie movies, the virus certainly knows how to use its greatest weapons: fright and panic. As of early this week, the relatively lightweight bug had killed fewer than 30 Americans. But we seem to be acting as if it has already killed 200,000 of us.
If COVID-19 can create fear that we will end up like the grotesque monsters on television, perhaps we, its enemy, will go on hoarding binges that result in shortages of masks, gloves and supplies for the health providers who need them most.
Or, if the virus can scare us enough that we cease working and interacting, our canceled-out economy will grind to a halt.
Or maybe the coronavirus can cleverly keep hopping on jets between countries and states, sowing dissension as nations blame one other for its creation and contagion, and politicians seek to destroy each other rather than band together to kill the virus.
COVID-19 counts on globalization as it sneaks onto jets and ships. In a few hours, it can find a new home and new hosts to terrify -- even thousands of miles away.
It is a vengeful enemy. It knows we have killed off or rendered impotent most of its fellow viruses. Its cousin, the flu, has not since 1918 translated its annual tactical wins into a strategic pandemic victory.
Viruses and anti-human microbes have not had a major win in America in decades, perhaps not since polio used to terrorize, cripple and kill thousands of Americans annually.
COVID-19 believes our progress, confidence and sophistication are not our strengths but rather our greatest weakness, as our vanity and assumed invulnerability render us ripe for panic.
The battle is upon us. But if we stay calm and rational, we can easily defeat the enemy, whose reputation is likely far scarier than its reality.
The Great Coronavirus War Is Upon Us
darmtn1917
Member
A top health official in Ohio estimated on Thursday that more than 100,000 people in the state have coronavirus, a shockingly high number that underscores the limited testing so far.
Ohio Department of Health Director Amy Acton said at a press conference alongside Gov. Mike DeWine (R) that given that the virus is spreading in the community in Ohio, she estimates at least 1 percent of the population in the state has the virus.
"We know now, just the fact of community spread, says that at least 1 percent, at the very least, 1 percent of our population is carrying this virus in Ohio today," Acton said. "We have 11.7 million people. So the math is over 100,000. So that just gives you a sense of how this virus spreads and is spreading quickly."
She added that the slow rollout of testing means the state does not have good verified numbers to know for sure.
Sounds like a reasonable reason to close the schools -
Ohio Department of Health Director Amy Acton said at a press conference alongside Gov. Mike DeWine (R) that given that the virus is spreading in the community in Ohio, she estimates at least 1 percent of the population in the state has the virus.
"We know now, just the fact of community spread, says that at least 1 percent, at the very least, 1 percent of our population is carrying this virus in Ohio today," Acton said. "We have 11.7 million people. So the math is over 100,000. So that just gives you a sense of how this virus spreads and is spreading quickly."
She added that the slow rollout of testing means the state does not have good verified numbers to know for sure.
Sounds like a reasonable reason to close the schools -
Excellent post doublesharp. I wish I could LIKE it multiple times.
There's a good write up of the author and his beliefs on Wikipedia
Strikes me as a bit of a crackpot. I'm going with the medics opinions
I'm not buying the math. There weren't 100k cases in China! There's 15K+ in Italy There's under 8K in S.Korea.
How many current cases in Ohio?
Based on the numbers, if there were 100K, 10% of those would be critical.
Coronavirus Update (Live): 134,521 Cases and 4,970 Deaths from COVID-19 Virus Outbreak - Worldometer
darmtn1917
Member
Ματθιας;140697627 said:
It's pretty well accepted that the known #s are so low because of the lack of
testing - give it a couple of weeks and we will know - you don't become really sick immediately upon being infected
doublesharp
Member
You are calling Victor Davis Hanson a crackpot and you don't even know who he is?
Well, that explains many of your other posts in this thread.
It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.
Yup,you got me,it's a vast libural conspiracy to create panic,crash the economy and hand the presidency to Jane Fonda.
See,y'all crackers are safe now
See,y'all crackers are safe now
"Only Thing We Have to Fear Is Fear Itself": FDR
I'm ready to stop worrying and just catch the virus and be sick for a week then get my life back.
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Jon651
Member
Ματθιας;140697578 said:
Unfortunately, the feds did none of those things. A few mealy-mouthed warnings paying lip service to (but contradicting) the experts but that was it. I wanted them to do all of those things I mentioned - TWO WEEKS AGO, but instead they talk about SBA loans, injecting liquidity into the market, bailout programs, and a holy host of economic stuff that needs to be discussed AFTER the health, medical and humanitarian measures were taken and the virus had begun to run its course.
They couldn't even get it right when in a national address the president told us that the insurance companies would waive the cost of testing AND TREATMENT (his words) as it relates to this virus. Or that the number of cases would very soon wind down to zero. Or that a vaccine AND A CURE would be available in only a few months. Or many people could go to work if they were sick. Instead the Fed was bullied into injecting $1.5T in cash into the economy today, which caused the market crash to slow for about thirty whole seconds before the DJIA lost a whopping 10% by closing in a single day.
I also wanted the feds to be READY, but in 2018, the ENTIRE chain of command in the CDC and the NSC that deals with pandemics were fired and their offices shuttered. Why? Nobody knows, but it surely wasn't because of GOOD PLANNING ON THEIR PART.
