Cougar hunting caliber conundrum

[38splfan]

Hey,

I am going on a cougar hunt with dogs in 2022 in northern Idaho. Guide says shot distances should be between 10-30 yards as cougars will be treed. Here's my conundrum... I have two rifle choices to come along with me... one is my kimber Montana in 280ai... leupold 4.5-12x40 on it. I've hunted alaska twice with it, killed rams, deer, and bears. She's my go to critter getter from mice to moose. It's been used hard, ain't pretty, but very effective and able to take a beating. My second choice is a darn close to unfired and almost flawless Winchester 94 30-30 from 1955. Seriously, barely a scratch on it no sling studs and completely virgin. For a <50 yard shot, is it worth bringing the 280, or should I make a great memory with the Winchester? Groups in the Winchester are tennis ball sized and poa at 50 yards with opensights. Let me know your thoughts and opinions.

38splfan

 

[paplinker]

Normally I would lean towards using what you know and trust best.
But in this case shooting a treed animal I think I like your thoughts and would go with the Winchester. Its not like your shooting a ram at 300 yards.

Myself my go to for cougar hunting was with 7 and 7ins.

 

[BigBill]

Either gun will do the job. Like any gun put your first shot on the money.

 

[Injunbro]

The scope will be a liability @ that range, go w/ the .30-30.

 

[robertrwalsh]

I have been told by people who know such things that cats are not hard to kill but are hard to hit. A treed cat is not that hard to hit and I would think the scope would be a detriment at those ranges. I would go with the Winchester were I you.

 

[Wyo]

Go with the 30/30. It's plenty powerful and accurate enough and much easier to carry than a scoped rifle. A lot of people I know just carry a handgun - a .357 mag. will do nicely - because it's even easier to carry and allows you to have both hands free.

 

[ISCS Yoda]

A .357 Magnum would be my choice as a back up but if you can get tennis ball sized groups and it's good to go at 50 yards with the iron sights on that Winchester then that's the rifle that I'd carry. Cougars are thin skinned beasts and are apparently not that hard to kill. A couple of my favorite deer kills were done with a peep sighted Model 94 in .30-30 and another with a peep sighted Navy Arms Rossi M92 in .45 Colt. The shots were not exceedingly far and the guns and I did the job we were supposed to do. Yessir. Take that lever rifle!

 

[6518John]

Google the RLO Slip-on Slings. They have been mentioned in posts here before too I believe. Won't have to modify you stock and still have a sling.

 

[BigBill]

A mountain lion attacked a hunter in Canada, While another guy seen it he shot the big cat five times till it let go. Might not be hard to kill but you never know. It's on the net.

 

[6518John]

Here is an excellent thread I remembered from a few years back.

Mountain Gun.............in the mountains

 

[MP-5]

Personally since you mentioned it in detail, I wouldn't take the mint no scratch 30/30 unless you get a good full scabbard. A rife can and will get scratched on horseback. John Wayne never worried about scratches on his lever gun. Even then I don't think the 30/30 is the best caliber choice but better than the 280. Mountain lions are thin skinned animals and are not tough creatures at all. A handgun is usually used for portability and ease of use on horseback. I have seen lions taken with a 22 magnum revolver. As always placement is paramount so accuracy is very important. A long barreled revolver in 22mag, 32 mag, 38 spec, 357 mag, 41 mag and even 44 mag is popular. Use what you shoot best offhand, which is usually a 38 special for most. (And since you are a 38 special fan, I assume you have one lying around) A treed cat is not a difficult shot, as the ranges are short, as the guide told you. A pistol caliber lever gun would also be good if you are a horrible pistol shot but I think the 30/30 caliber is too much gun. Again most people don't shoot a pistol well so you don't want to wound the cat and it tears up your guide's dogs. I remember reading somewhere of someone using an old M1 carbine for mountain lion. That sounds like a good lightweight setup as well. These type of "hunts" can be anti-climatic once the cat is treed. It is all about the chase. You have a infinite better chance of getting hurt falling off your horse than getting mauled by a lion on these types of horseback hunts. Once again, because most people are not skilled horse riders. Inexperience can get you hurt quicker than a mountain lion.

 

[hittman77]

I'll vote for use of your 30-30. That was always my "go to" caliber for whitetail deer in the brushy bottom lands of northern Missouri.

Of course, you may be "forced" into buying a lesser quality 30-30 lever so you don't ruin your Winchester. That may be prudent LOL.

You know ...... a Ruger 44 Carbine would do the trick too.

Regardless, you've got time. Shop around .... this is as good excuse as any!

 

[scatter shot]

I reckon it depends on your end goals for the 30/30. I use all my guns but an unfired, 1955 Winchester 94 would be a gun that I would be very selective of where I use it.
Riding horses, running up and down hills and climbing over big rocks aint one of them. Since you're not going anytime soon I would suggest trying to budget for a Marlin 1984 in a caliber of your choice. I have an 1894C in .357 that is an absolute pleasure to carry while slipping around in the woods.

 

[Dogbone44Spl]

30-30 with a peep sight.

 

[tominboise]

I'd ask the guide what he thinks.

As mentioned above, I would use a handgun of some sort, or the handiest, easy to carry rifle that I could find. A Marlin lever gun in a pistol caliber or in 22lr would be perfect.

 

[ajgunner]

Ask the guide how many miles you should plan to be packing a rifle around with you. My guess would be 2-20 per day depending on how selective you are on cat size. Keep in mind that Northern Idaho will have snow (this year it started in mid October) and depending on your timing it could be deep snow. Then think about how much fun it will be packing a rifle all those miles for a single shot. Then take into account how big of hole you will be making in a hide. My vote would be a good revolver in a chest rig. Ask the guide for his thoughts.

 

[Rpg]

I own a Colt Woodsman that was the primary gun of a gentleman who did predator control work for Colorado in the 1950's.

I remember talking to him about the gun he used for shooting mountain lion, black bear and bobcats: it was the Woodsman! He used dogs and shot the animals when treed.

I was just getting into reading about guns and dangerous animals and was shocked he wouldn't use something much, much larger! He assured me that the 22 pistol worked just fine.

 

[Mule Packer]

I am not a pro, but having treed a couple of cougars, here's my two cents worth...and it probably isn't even worth that much.

When it comes to guns when hunting mountain lions behind dogs, from what I've read and from the hunters I've talked to, most experienced cougar hunters seem to prefer a handgun to a rifle. It's easier to carry, especially in windfalls and thick brush. In my experience, where cats go, you can only take the horses or mules so far, then you'll have to tie them up and go the rest of the distance on foot, which is oftentimes pretty rough going. A handgun can be carried in a pack, in your saddle bags, or on your hip. As one cougar hunter said, "If you can hit a milk jug at 30 yards with your handgun, you can hit a treed cougar."

As a couple have already mentioned, a lot of cougar hunters carry a handgun in no more than a .22 caliber, loaded with hollow points, and shoot the treed cat in the lungs, killing it. Personally, I prefer a Ruger Single Six in .22 magnum...but that's just me. I notice that your forum name is "38splfan." If that's true, a .38 special is more than enough for a treed mountain lion.

I may be going against what your guide says, but a lot of cougar hunters won't shoot a cat in the head for a couple of reasons. First, you might ruin a record skull. And second, even with a head shot, the cat could come out of the tree with enough life left to kill one of the dogs that happens to be close.

Again, this might be going against what your guide says but, if you put a .38 special hollow-point into his lungs, he'll either hang in the tree until he wilts and falls dead, or he'll jump and run, filling his lungs with blood. In that case, he'll be dead before the dogs can reach him.

Now, just because I said this doesn't make it right. I'd go on the advice of your hunting guide. Again, just my two cents worth.

 

[andy52]

If your planning on keeping the pelt I'd go with a smaller caliber then you mentioned. Most treed animals aren't going anywhere so you have plenty of time to take a good shot. My thinking is a .22 mag. or even a .22 LR behind the ear would plenty enough.

 

[Igiveup]

What Mule Packer said. I shot one out my back door, 10 yds., with .38 spl. in the lungs. Nuff said.

 

[dave1918a2]

If it were Me I would take the 30-30. I hunted lions with a g friend when I was working in CO Springs. He had dogs and horses and always wanted a handgun instead a rifle. This was early 70's and all I had was a 7 mag and a SBH. So I took the SBH. Never failed to anchor one. Have fun and good luck.

 

[biku324]

Folks in NM routinely use 357 and 44 carbines on cougar. They're not hard to kill once treed.

 

[BearBio]

We had a hunting lease on a ranch in Central Cali. We had a lion problem and one night (after one horse was attacked), we heard the other horses all excited and my wife and I went out to see what was happening. A cougar had gotten between the horses and the gate to the much larger lower pasture. Wife had my S & W 15 and I had a Ruger 22 mag.

My dad had a buddy who had a Walker hound and ran lions and bobcat. He used a 22 Mag Ruger Single Six. His thought was, with a chest hit, the cougar would hang on until it was too weak to rip up the dogs.

Check with your guide and practice with his recommendation!

 

[idahogun]

I've treed a few cats with my friends that go all the time and most cats are under 10yrds. I would forget the scope and use a small caliber like a .243 To lesson the damage to the pelt.

 

[38splfan]

Hey,

My guide recommended a 270 or similar. I've talked to a few people who say that's way over kill for a cat. The guide also said I could use his 30-30. So he figures 30-30 is plenty. I do have a 686 no dash and a 657 no dash that I could take but from what you guys are saying, the 280 is going to be too much. From what he has said to me, we will be using trucks, snow machines, or possibly atv to get into the general area then let the dogs do their thing. Depending on how far, more atv/snow machine action and a hike in to the treed cat. I'm leaning to the 30-30 not only for nostalgia purposes but also because I want to keep the hide, and I predict the 280 would have an explosive effect. I shoot 160 accubond out of it at about 2950fps. It anchors anything I've shot with it, including a 375lb southern Oregon bear. Now to throw another wrinkle into this... maybe my cz 527 in 7.63x39? My buddy coming along is taking his great grandfather's Winchester 71 in 348, with some very downloaded rounds we are working on. Talk about nostalgia!!!

 

[6518John]

zoom in on the hound on the right in the front. He is saying "kitty stop climbing these hill!"

He is what I would look like assuming I made up that incline!!!

 

[roscoepc]

Me personally, I use iron sights for 100yds or less.. Makes it a LOT easier and more accurate to "Snap Shoot" a target if needed at 50yds or less! I've never done that type of shot while hunting but there is a Ton of empty cans that have met their end when I was shooting like that both with my .22LR Glenfield and the .308 Remington Woodsmaster I owned that had a Weaver Flip mount with a Bushnell scope!

Lot's of people told me that the scope would lose center from being flipped back and forth but it never happened as she was always "On" when I used the scope! I guess the scope was made on a Wednesday!!

I'd take that 94 Winchester with a revolver in a vertical shoulder rig for backup in a Heartbeat for close in hunting like that!!

 

[BearBio]

Had a friend I accompanied on his first wild hog hunt. As we left camp, a nice "trophy" boar ran about 50 yards in front of us (a trot not a full out run). He couldn't find it in his scope which was set at 9x instead of 3x. He then missed another shot because he hadn't loaded his rifle before leaving camp. Both hogs had 2"+ tusks. Then, he had the gall to complain that, out of six hogs shot that day, his was under 200 lbs. and 2" tusks!

Hint: BE PREPARED.

 

[culito]

I really enjoyed cougar hunting in my youth....

 

[CH4]

Perfect job for your Winchester 30-30.