OP
Could this be the beginning of a water war
- Thread starter LVSteve
- Start date
I took a lot of environmental and natural resources classes in law school and started my career in environmental law at a corporate firm (which mean, mostly, defending power plants...).
I've been convinced since then that the biggest wars in the 21st Century will be fought over access to clean water. The pandemic has changed my thinking a bit, but I'm still holding to my thesis, particularly as it pertains to countries in the developing world that cannot afford desal like Israel.
One correction - a couple people upthread stated that lawsuits between states end up in the Supreme Court. Actually, the Supreme Court has original jurisdiction for this suits, so they go straight there. California and Arizona had at least one case that spent 10 years at SCOTUS.
I've been convinced since then that the biggest wars in the 21st Century will be fought over access to clean water. The pandemic has changed my thinking a bit, but I'm still holding to my thesis, particularly as it pertains to countries in the developing world that cannot afford desal like Israel.
One correction - a couple people upthread stated that lawsuits between states end up in the Supreme Court. Actually, the Supreme Court has original jurisdiction for this suits, so they go straight there. California and Arizona had at least one case that spent 10 years at SCOTUS.
Jeff423
US Veteran
When a friend of mine was in law school in Colorado he told me that "riparian rights" was the most complicated subject he encountered - especially in the west.
It truly struck me that when I opened up the "Lounge" this morning the thread below this one was "Fires in California."
Hmmm. Lots to ponder there, but I don't want to get my typing hands smacked for saying something inappropriate.
Hmmm. Lots to ponder there, but I don't want to get my typing hands smacked for saying something inappropriate.
Before I moved from Calif to Nevada we lived with the saying...........
"If it's yellow............................ "
They need to make that a law.
"If it's yellow............................ "
They need to make that a law.
Lee in Quartzsite
Member
The building in and around Las Vegas is at a furious pace, like there is no tomorrow. All water supplying Clark County comes from Lake Mead, and the lake is getting lower year by year. There has been almost no rain this summer to replenish what has been taken out. If the water level gets much lower there won't be enough to turn the turbines that make electricity for most of the Southwest. That's when it will really hit the stalled fan blades!
Las Vegas is not fun any more. Too many people, too much traffic, and prices to high for almost everything, including real estate. Most large casinos now charge for parking..no more free ride. Bring back the days of the 99 cent breakfast, or the $5.99 prime rib dinner....
Las Vegas is not fun any more. Too many people, too much traffic, and prices to high for almost everything, including real estate. Most large casinos now charge for parking..no more free ride. Bring back the days of the 99 cent breakfast, or the $5.99 prime rib dinner....
nicky4968
Member
1. Yes, in Colorado water is severable. But it still must be associated to a specific property.
2. The definition of an overadjudicated stream is when you have more lawyers than water.
3. I once reported in water court where the witness, before being sworn, said, "Bob, why don't we cram a bunch of lawyers down a well and see if they'll come out where the engineers say they should?"
The judge's response was, "We can't do that. And don't call me Bob in court."
2. The definition of an overadjudicated stream is when you have more lawyers than water.
3. I once reported in water court where the witness, before being sworn, said, "Bob, why don't we cram a bunch of lawyers down a well and see if they'll come out where the engineers say they should?"
The judge's response was, "We can't do that. And don't call me Bob in court."
Old Arkansawyer
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One of the problems with the desalination of ocean water is that
the Las Vegas Valley uses about 390 million gallons/day average.
Take enough salt out in order to drink it and you are left with
about 45 tons of salt, every day, more in the summer of course.
What does Israel do with their salt?
OP
LVSteve
Member
This subject deserves its own thread. I've lived here over 20 years, and I have made the comment at work that the Vegas Valley has "outgrown its utility" IMHO. The only comment I've had is "I guess you're not on Jim Rhodes* Christmas card list".
The rot started after 9/11 and really got rolling after 2008. Vegas lost its special feel, and the nail in the coffin for me was charging for parking on the Strip, just like every other nickel and diming tourist city. My view on the over-corporate regime down there is that I'll look at the Strip with interest again if it catches fire.
[*Jim Rhodes is a major offender in the over development of Vegas on the backs of thousands of illegal immigrants. Lovely man.
]
Ziggy2525
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I was thinking I read somewhere that when it came to water allocation, Nevada wasn't just at the bottom of the totem pole, they were under the totem pole. Everybody Has superior water rights to Nevada.
So what happens if there's no water for Nevada. There's what, two and a half million people there. Is there a massive "Dust Bowl" like migration out?
So what happens if there's no water for Nevada. There's what, two and a half million people there. Is there a massive "Dust Bowl" like migration out?
OP
LVSteve
Member
Nevada has the smallest allocation and hasn't got close to the number yet. If anybody should be in the hole with minimal rights it's California. Hydrology wise it contributes nothing to the Colorado flow. At least Nevada has the Muddy River/Meadow Valley Wash catchment that end up in Lake Mead.
The lunacy with CA is such that some there want Colorado water to "save the Salton Sea". They obviously missed the part about the Salton Sea being created by what was effectively and industrial accident, the failure of some levees. Use precious drinking water to bring that back? I have a Grumpy Cat with an answer for you.
How deeps the water
If you run short, just let me know
and I will flush a couple of times.
LOL
If you run short, just let me know
and I will flush a couple of times.
LOL
charlie sherrill
Member
The Mississippi River and others flood every spring. Would it be feasible to pump some of the over flow into reservoirs out West?
So here we go again! Arizona's monsoon season is pretty much over and we've received squat for rain. Winter snow pack? Another joke and it just goes on and on and on.
Whats funny is that we went through two (2) 100 year floods where pretty much all the bridges crossing the salt river were washed out ..... Now? Not so much. Lord we need rain!
__________________
Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum
Boy ain't that the truth. Here in Salome it has been the nonsoon. One piddling little rain of .01 inches.
Whats funny is that we went through two (2) 100 year floods where pretty much all the bridges crossing the salt river were washed out ..... Now? Not so much. Lord we need rain!
__________________
Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum
Boy ain't that the truth. Here in Salome it has been the nonsoon. One piddling little rain of .01 inches.
LoboGunLeather
US Veteran
And while Aurora is "working on more water" the effects are felt from the Continental Divide to the Kansas line, farmland gone forever and towns unable to provide basic water services to residents because Aurora purchased water rights and take that water a hundred miles or more upstream, effectively drying up huge swaths of eastern Colorado to feed urban growth.
Meanwhile the underground aquifers are receding at an alarming rate, having little or no surface feed to replenish.
The "growth at any cost" crowd in the Denver metro area are destroying much of rural Colorado with their water demands, and since they have the bucks to pay for it there is little anyone can do to stop the trend.
Jeff423
US Veteran
Historically (when I sold them) It doesn't come out as salt but rather a concentrated brine which goes back into the ocean. Most membrane desalinization plants only get about 10% drinking water per pass. So for every 100 gallons processed only about 10 gallons is potable and the other 90% is slightly saltier. That 90% can be processed but is normally returned to the ocean. They may be more efficient today.
FWIW: the electrical costs for pumping the water through the membranes are very high.
South Louisiana has water wars too, when you haul dirt to raise your lot and the next heavy rain your neighbor's lot is flooded.
Steve W
Steve W
BLACKHAWKNJ
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I recall scenes from the 1962 British SciFi movie "The Day The Earth Caught Fire", showed people lining up with cook pots and bottles to receive their water ration. I foresee a lot of Big Brother-meters on toilets, sinks, baths and showers-swimming pools, a lot of complaints about double and triple standards, favoritism. MJ cultivation vs. food production-that will be interesting.
Appears that a homeowner collecting rainwater in rain barrels etc. is banned in some places. Rainwater Harvesting Laws You Need to Know About | PerfectWater™
Colorado and Utah are referenced in this site.
Definitely water is a big issue out west and elsewhere!
Colorado and Utah are referenced in this site.
Definitely water is a big issue out west and elsewhere!
I have thought many times when seeing floods as a result of a rising Mississippi or other waterway, why not a pipeline system that could take excess water from flooding areas and transport it to areas suffering a drought. Seems like it could put a lot of folks to work and the money saved by insurance companies and the federal government disaster fund could be better spent doing something proactive rather than as after damage band aids. 
