jsfricks
Member
Even though I trust my reloading skills I only use factory ammo for self defense.
Couple of Primers Didn't Ignite First Time-**UPDATE**
- Thread starter kbm6893
- Start date
One picture is worth a thousand words they say. The problem
is that it can be impossible to find one when you want it.
With all my stacks or piles of books I can't seem to find a
pic of this simple little tool. No tubes, no blast shield needed,
one primer in the cup, one case in the shell holder, seat and
repeat. I will find a picture and post it later.
scooter123
Member
Kbm, if you haven't checked the firing pin protrusion on your model 67 I would suggest that you take the time to do it. It is really very simple, you unload the revolver, open the cylinder, hold the cylinder release to the rear and pull the trigger. Hold the trigger to the rear and then compare the amount the firing pin sticks out through the recoil shield to the thickness of a Dime. BTW, it's call the Dime Test and is really only applicable to S&W revolvers with a hammer mounted firing pin because the newer frame mounted firing pins operate partially as an Inertial firing pin.
Anyhow, if that firing pin protrusion isn't equal to the thickness of a Dime you will have problems with misfires, especially in double action shooting. I recently purchased a 1971 vintage model 19-3 and it had a short Hammer Nose from the factory. Note, I'm basing that assumption on the nearly unfired condition of this model 19. First time out I had problems with about a 30% misfire rate with my 38 special handloads, so I used an old primer cup to shim the strain screw and increase the mainspring tension. Dong this increase the weight of the DA trigger from just a touch under 9 lbs. to 10 lbs. 9 ounces per my Lyman Digital Trigger gage. With my 38 special handloads the DA misfire rate dropped to 2 out of 100. On this outing I had loaded up some special light Magnums with CCI 550 primers and the misfire rate for this ammunition was over 60%.
The solution for me was to purchase a new Power Custom Hammer Nose from Brownell's and the instructions that came with that hammer nose stated it would probably require some fitting for length because they were produced as Extended Length Hammer Noses. They were not kidding, I end up using a diamond file to remove 0.015 inch from the tip so the protrusion was just a touch longer than the thickness of a Dime.
Now, I have removed that primer cup from the strain screw and with a DA trigger just under 9 lbs. I have not had one single misfire since.
In addition with the deeper impression in the primers I suspect that I could probably reduce the DA trigger to something between 7 or 8 lbs. but I rather like a 9 lbs. DA trigger so I'm calling it good the way it is right now.
BTW, that Light Magnum I came up with is actually loaded in that gray area between 38 +P and 357 Magnums and it is quite pleasant to shoot in my 2 1/2 inch model 19. The specifics of the load are a 158 grain Hornady XTP, a CCI 550 primer, and 7.8 grains of Accurate #5. Sometime next summer I'll chronograph this load but I'll be surprised if it's making more than 900 fps and I expect I'll be able to shoot many many thousands without doing any harm to that sweet little revolver.
Anyhow, if that firing pin protrusion isn't equal to the thickness of a Dime you will have problems with misfires, especially in double action shooting. I recently purchased a 1971 vintage model 19-3 and it had a short Hammer Nose from the factory. Note, I'm basing that assumption on the nearly unfired condition of this model 19. First time out I had problems with about a 30% misfire rate with my 38 special handloads, so I used an old primer cup to shim the strain screw and increase the mainspring tension. Dong this increase the weight of the DA trigger from just a touch under 9 lbs. to 10 lbs. 9 ounces per my Lyman Digital Trigger gage. With my 38 special handloads the DA misfire rate dropped to 2 out of 100. On this outing I had loaded up some special light Magnums with CCI 550 primers and the misfire rate for this ammunition was over 60%.
The solution for me was to purchase a new Power Custom Hammer Nose from Brownell's and the instructions that came with that hammer nose stated it would probably require some fitting for length because they were produced as Extended Length Hammer Noses. They were not kidding, I end up using a diamond file to remove 0.015 inch from the tip so the protrusion was just a touch longer than the thickness of a Dime.
Now, I have removed that primer cup from the strain screw and with a DA trigger just under 9 lbs. I have not had one single misfire since.
In addition with the deeper impression in the primers I suspect that I could probably reduce the DA trigger to something between 7 or 8 lbs. but I rather like a 9 lbs. DA trigger so I'm calling it good the way it is right now.
BTW, that Light Magnum I came up with is actually loaded in that gray area between 38 +P and 357 Magnums and it is quite pleasant to shoot in my 2 1/2 inch model 19. The specifics of the load are a 158 grain Hornady XTP, a CCI 550 primer, and 7.8 grains of Accurate #5. Sometime next summer I'll chronograph this load but I'll be surprised if it's making more than 900 fps and I expect I'll be able to shoot many many thousands without doing any harm to that sweet little revolver.
Well since I tend to keep stuff, too much sometimes, I found
the manual that came with the primer. It's only about 6" tall
and primes one case at a time but it's pretty fast to use
once you get used to it. Something to consider, here's a pic.
Attachments
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hangnoose
Member
RAISED PRIMERS
KBM if this really is your problem it is a very easy fix. Now remember primers need to be BELOW repeat BELOW flush so a table top won't tell you that. No worries, simply move the pad of your index finger across the bottom of the primers & you should be able to feel that they are below flush. You should also be able to see if the bottom of the primers are flat, as opposed to still rounded. It's NOT EASY to see if they are 1/100"- 1/1000" too high, a table top test will tell you if they are too high. The ones you are unsure of simply put them in the primer 1 more time, this should seat them correctly & recheck, it takes very little time. good luck. Have you ever removed the side plate on the 67 and given it a good cleaning & inspection? A spritz with some non chlorinated brake cleaner may dislodge some varnished oil/ sludge/crud & free up the firing pin just enough. Remember we are talking about tiny fractions of an inch. Then re-oil LIGHTLY, like a couple drops on a Q-tip lightly.
KBM if this really is your problem it is a very easy fix. Now remember primers need to be BELOW repeat BELOW flush so a table top won't tell you that. No worries, simply move the pad of your index finger across the bottom of the primers & you should be able to feel that they are below flush. You should also be able to see if the bottom of the primers are flat, as opposed to still rounded. It's NOT EASY to see if they are 1/100"- 1/1000" too high, a table top test will tell you if they are too high. The ones you are unsure of simply put them in the primer 1 more time, this should seat them correctly & recheck, it takes very little time. good luck. Have you ever removed the side plate on the 67 and given it a good cleaning & inspection? A spritz with some non chlorinated brake cleaner may dislodge some varnished oil/ sludge/crud & free up the firing pin just enough. Remember we are talking about tiny fractions of an inch. Then re-oil LIGHTLY, like a couple drops on a Q-tip lightly.
The sideplate has been off and the internals cleaned. I'm not sure it's a good idea to reseat primers on a loaded round. I have over 1500 of these rounds loaded so I don't see myself inspecting them all. Maybe I'll do it as I go to the range 150 or so at a time. I don't use reloads for self defense so as long as the issue is a raised primer then I'm cool with it. I'll press more firmly from now on. Gives me a good flinching test anyway. I won't be shooting for a while now that the weather is turning cold here but the next time I go to the range I'll bring some factory again and see if it happens with those. I doubt it will. The bench mounted primer looks like a good option, but I kind of enjoy the hand held method. I can do it sitting on the couch rather than standing at my press. I tumbled the brass I shot yesterday. I separated the factory brass so I'll prime those and put them into the ready to load box. I'll make sure I give a good squeeze and keep those finished rounds separate. If none of them misfire I'll know what the problem was.
ageingstudent
Member
Did you compare the hammer strikes on the primers between the Ruger and the 67, and between s/a & d/a fired cases? That might tell you something. Just trying to help you narrow your focus by ruling things out. The dime test scooter mentioned is a good rule of thumb for the Smith also. Seems like if your primers aren't seated you would have more issues with both guns in both modes of fire. It could be brand specific issue between the 67 and a particular primer, etc. Perhaps you should try some factory loads that use the same primer as your handloads, and make some handloads that are a close match to those factory loads dimensionally.
These sorts of issues can be nagging. I try to start with the simplest possibility first and methodically test for problems and rule them out 1at a time. Troubleshoot from the outside in if you will. You'll get there just be patient and methodical.
These sorts of issues can be nagging. I try to start with the simplest possibility first and methodically test for problems and rule them out 1at a time. Troubleshoot from the outside in if you will. You'll get there just be patient and methodical.
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Never ever try to reseat a primer on a LOADED round.
But I see this doesn't matter now,
Thanks for all the help. I had 50 cases primed and ready to load and I have the 50 factory cases from yesterday. I double checked the ones already primed and I will give a good squeeze on the ones from yesterday that I will prime tomorrow. I'll bring those 100 reloads and a box of 50 factory loads to the range when I can this winter. If any of those reloads fail to ignite I will know it is not a primer issue, because every one of those have been checked and rechecked and the primer is below flush and seated with authority.
Happy New Year, everyone! Or maybe I should fire off a cylinder or two tonight at midnight (just kidding!)
Happy New Year, everyone! Or maybe I should fire off a cylinder or two tonight at midnight (just kidding!)
hangnoose
Member
RULE 3 IS CORRECT!
NEVER re-seat on a fully loaded round. I was thinking you had them primed & not loaded. I'm only harping on primer seating as I went thru it with 2 tricked out Jack Weigand Rugers and blamed CCI also. He (JW) told me REPEATEDLY the fault was mine & he was right. Squeezing the hand primer harder will break the handle eventually, ask me how I know x 2, and could lead to carpal tunnel syndrome. A loading block that holds 80-100 rounds is a cheap & handy reloading tool that you put the primed case in as seated, bottom side up, & allows you to check them (before loading) in seconds. sorry to all for any drama. Checking primers for correct seating depth after they are loaded is too late, as I'm sure you now know.
NEVER re-seat on a fully loaded round. I was thinking you had them primed & not loaded. I'm only harping on primer seating as I went thru it with 2 tricked out Jack Weigand Rugers and blamed CCI also. He (JW) told me REPEATEDLY the fault was mine & he was right. Squeezing the hand primer harder will break the handle eventually, ask me how I know x 2, and could lead to carpal tunnel syndrome. A loading block that holds 80-100 rounds is a cheap & handy reloading tool that you put the primed case in as seated, bottom side up, & allows you to check them (before loading) in seconds. sorry to all for any drama. Checking primers for correct seating depth after they are loaded is too late, as I'm sure you now know.
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one final thought..........
is the firing pin in good shape and not worn or damaged or its space clean from "Gunk", which might cause a short stroke?
Good shooting.
is the firing pin in good shape and not worn or damaged or its space clean from "Gunk", which might cause a short stroke?
Good shooting.
dmy
Member
Q.C. with primers
To the O.P.:
Funny coincidence. I recently purchased my first 1000 Federal Champion large pistol primers and small pistol primers after using CCI lpp and spp for the last 25 years. Until recently, never had a problem with CCIs. Lately, I had a couple of primers which took 2 strikes with the firing pin to ignite. I also noticed my last 2000 CCIs also decap differently because the anvil seems to fall apart from the primer housing about 50% of the time and it takes me multiple strokes and lengthening the decapping pin to remove the CCI primer.
Last week, I posted my observations about the Federals on The Firing Line ("Q.C. on Federal primers") under the reloading section. Long story short, I had problems with 4 primers from the first 100 card from my first 1000 primer box of Federals. 2 primers would not seat at all and 2 other primers would not fully seat. I was able to seat CCIs in the latter and seated the next Federal primer in order in the former.
Someone questioned whether I uniform my primer pockets. The answer is "no", but I do clean them each time before reloading and I never had trouble with seating other CCI and Federal primers, so I don't believe there was/is a problem with these particular 4 cases. The next 300 Federal primers were not a problem, although the Federals do not fall freely in my RCBS primer feeder tube (which has flawlessly fed tens of thousands of CCIs without having to tap the tube to get the primers to fall) which is part of my 25 year old Rock Chucker. I have to admit that all of the Federals LPPs which I shot so far (only 200) have gone bang on the first try. I'm not sold on Federals, but also noticed that CCIs are not as consistent as they used to be.
To the O.P.:
Funny coincidence. I recently purchased my first 1000 Federal Champion large pistol primers and small pistol primers after using CCI lpp and spp for the last 25 years. Until recently, never had a problem with CCIs. Lately, I had a couple of primers which took 2 strikes with the firing pin to ignite. I also noticed my last 2000 CCIs also decap differently because the anvil seems to fall apart from the primer housing about 50% of the time and it takes me multiple strokes and lengthening the decapping pin to remove the CCI primer.
Last week, I posted my observations about the Federals on The Firing Line ("Q.C. on Federal primers") under the reloading section. Long story short, I had problems with 4 primers from the first 100 card from my first 1000 primer box of Federals. 2 primers would not seat at all and 2 other primers would not fully seat. I was able to seat CCIs in the latter and seated the next Federal primer in order in the former.
Someone questioned whether I uniform my primer pockets. The answer is "no", but I do clean them each time before reloading and I never had trouble with seating other CCI and Federal primers, so I don't believe there was/is a problem with these particular 4 cases. The next 300 Federal primers were not a problem, although the Federals do not fall freely in my RCBS primer feeder tube (which has flawlessly fed tens of thousands of CCIs without having to tap the tube to get the primers to fall) which is part of my 25 year old Rock Chucker. I have to admit that all of the Federals LPPs which I shot so far (only 200) have gone bang on the first try. I'm not sold on Federals, but also noticed that CCIs are not as consistent as they used to be.
