So this thread does not really pertain to integral lasers such as Crimson Trace? I believe their advertising claims their device for low- to no-light conditions is superior to conventional night sights. Whether theirs is superior to competing laser manufacturers doesn't really matter, does it? As far as I know, they are the only after-market manufacturer of laser sighting as part of a grip assembly.
Crime Statistics and Night Sights
- Thread starter SpecRacer
- Start date
I have found this to be very true.
Only if you're pointing the pistol in the wrong direction . . .
Night sights can be helpful, but not necessary. There is always ambient light, even in a graveyard at midnight on Halloween. Regardless, you won't be seeing much of anything sharp and clear after that first muzzle flash in your eyes . . .
The tritium is only visible from behind and only if you are looking for it for the most part.
In complete darkness, I'd say they probably could in certain circumstances.
Are night sights really necessary?
I used to have an XS big dot on a couple of my home defense handguns years ago. At night, our bedrooms are extremely dark while I keep the seperated living area/entry points lighted with night lights. Responding to what I thought was a break in through the spare bedroom window, I found the night sight extremely distracting and interfered with trying to see through the darkness to where I thought the threat might be(the gun was up in a ready to fire position as I was getting ready to light up the area with a handheld surefire). I also noticed there was some back lighting coming from the night sight and I was really wishing at that moment that I could turn that night sight off. My wife and I tested it out later and you could in fact see the night sight due to the backlighting when in total darkness although not to a real significant degree. Nonrtheless, I got rid of them shortly thereafter.
The primary disadvantage is additional cost for something that is unecessary IMO.
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I don't believe the opinions expressed in the article I referenced are true because of who said them. I agree with them because I think they are legitimately correct irregardless of who said it.
Gabe Suarez and Rob Pincus can come out tommorow and loudly proclaim that nights sights are an absolute necessity and the greatest thing since sliced bread. Maybe they already have. It really doesn't matter one bit to me. I still agree with what they wrote back then.
I believe the those distance averages are about to change dramatically. Gone are the days of people who want your wallet. Re: Paris theater, San Bernadino, Aurora theater, Mali hotel, Mumbai hotel. They are flooding the borders and soon to be at a location near you.
Not a bad decision . . .
Congrats on the new Shield. Handy, slim little single stack pistols.
You can find no particular shortage of uninformed and informed opinions about the relative value of tritium night sights. A range of difference experiences, too.
I wasn't a particular enthusiast about using night sights early in my LE career, even as a younger firearms instructor. One of the common 'objections' heard back then (80's & early 90's) was how they'd possibly let an attacker see you via the green dots floating around, especially on duty guns openly holstered on gun belts. Well, that argument got a bit weakened when I did some night shoot training in an instructor class in '90, and a guy with a Sig Sauer had night sights.
Sure, if he stood still and I could position myself at the right distance and in an ideal position, and I let my eyes relax, I could see the night sights within a few yards. I could hear him much more easily (jingling equipment, breathing, shuffling feet, rubbing clothing, squeaking leather, etc). Once a flashlight bean came around, my night sight and ability to find the itty bitty dancing & floating green dots disappeared.
In other words, not so much of a 'tactical/officer safety' concern as I'd heard promoted.
As time passed, and I eventually tried them again (I like to periodically re-evaluate my thoughts, training & experiences), I eventually discovered they could be very useful and practical in some circumstances where I found myself on an almost daily basis. I started ordering new pistols with them, and installing them on a number of my existing pistols. Not all of them, but maybe approx half of them. I tried a few variations, including 3-sot, front dot-only, stacked dots, different color dots and so on.
When were ordering some new general issue pistols several years ago I suggested we order them with factory-installed night sights. Pretty affordable as a factory option, especially when you're ordering close to a quarter million dollars of new guns.
Once those started getting issued and out in general use, we started hearing some favorable feedback from the troops about the new (to them) night sights.
I remember one young guy telling me that he'd discovered they gave him a quicker and easier sight acquisition when he made a high risk traffic stop at night. He particularly liked how much faster he could acquire the sights when the 'backdrop' was brightly illuminated, but he remained in the dark (behind the wall of light). He said he'd been surprised that it was noticeably faster than when he'd just used to acquire the non-tritium/3-dot sights against a background that was illuminated (and the sights were just a black outline against the bright background).
Now, granted, using tritium sights in bright daylight conditions may not be as quick or as handy for some eyes (mine included), especially if the thin white line surrounding the lens (covering the capsule) gets fouled and covered with a dusting of grey/black. Then it's like just using plain black sights, instead of being able to see 3 starkly white dots aligned and imposed over the intended target. (Same thing can happen with neglected and heavily fouled 3-dot painted sights, though, too. )
Newer sight designs have given us some options that help reduce this sort of issue, though. Brighter colored paints, light reactive paint, plastic rings and fiber optic tubes are some of them.
Any discussion of night sights probably ought to include at least some passing reference to the fact that it's only the tritium capsules that are illuminated .... meaning not the actual intended target. You still need light to see and identify what you're aiming at and intending to shoot. Light sources are still important, including ambient, environmental, hand-held or weapon-mounted. Not necessarily a bad idea to get a better understanding of how to employ any of them, and some level of training in their use.
I have a few pistols in which the tritium capsules are at, or approaching, the end of their service lives.
I might replace some, or maybe send the sights for new capsules (since I have a couple sight pushers and some brass/nylon drifts, as an armorer), but I'm not in a particular hurry.
I'm not working full-time anymore and finding myself in places and conditions every hour or so when I originally found them handy, and I still carry hand-held lights with me (if I'm going to be out after dark, but also if I'm going to be inside any commercial buildings where a power failure could be inconvenient).
I like them on my pair of M&P340 snubs, which use the standard size XS front night sight dot. Handy. Faster and quicker to align in normal light (because of the bright plastic ring), and useful in reduced light conditions (better than my 649, 642's, 36 and 37 with only painted ramps).
I guess someone could say that I'm probably an "either/or" guy when it comes to night sights nowadays. I like, have and use them on maybe half my retirement weapons, and still manage to get along fine using the other half without them.
Or, maybe I'm just lazy.
You can find no particular shortage of uninformed and informed opinions about the relative value of tritium night sights. A range of difference experiences, too.
I wasn't a particular enthusiast about using night sights early in my LE career, even as a younger firearms instructor. One of the common 'objections' heard back then (80's & early 90's) was how they'd possibly let an attacker see you via the green dots floating around, especially on duty guns openly holstered on gun belts. Well, that argument got a bit weakened when I did some night shoot training in an instructor class in '90, and a guy with a Sig Sauer had night sights.
Sure, if he stood still and I could position myself at the right distance and in an ideal position, and I let my eyes relax, I could see the night sights within a few yards. I could hear him much more easily (jingling equipment, breathing, shuffling feet, rubbing clothing, squeaking leather, etc). Once a flashlight bean came around, my night sight and ability to find the itty bitty dancing & floating green dots disappeared.
In other words, not so much of a 'tactical/officer safety' concern as I'd heard promoted.
As time passed, and I eventually tried them again (I like to periodically re-evaluate my thoughts, training & experiences), I eventually discovered they could be very useful and practical in some circumstances where I found myself on an almost daily basis. I started ordering new pistols with them, and installing them on a number of my existing pistols. Not all of them, but maybe approx half of them. I tried a few variations, including 3-sot, front dot-only, stacked dots, different color dots and so on.
When were ordering some new general issue pistols several years ago I suggested we order them with factory-installed night sights. Pretty affordable as a factory option, especially when you're ordering close to a quarter million dollars of new guns.
Once those started getting issued and out in general use, we started hearing some favorable feedback from the troops about the new (to them) night sights.I remember one young guy telling me that he'd discovered they gave him a quicker and easier sight acquisition when he made a high risk traffic stop at night. He particularly liked how much faster he could acquire the sights when the 'backdrop' was brightly illuminated, but he remained in the dark (behind the wall of light). He said he'd been surprised that it was noticeably faster than when he'd just used to acquire the non-tritium/3-dot sights against a background that was illuminated (and the sights were just a black outline against the bright background).
Now, granted, using tritium sights in bright daylight conditions may not be as quick or as handy for some eyes (mine included), especially if the thin white line surrounding the lens (covering the capsule) gets fouled and covered with a dusting of grey/black. Then it's like just using plain black sights, instead of being able to see 3 starkly white dots aligned and imposed over the intended target. (Same thing can happen with neglected and heavily fouled 3-dot painted sights, though, too.
)Newer sight designs have given us some options that help reduce this sort of issue, though. Brighter colored paints, light reactive paint, plastic rings and fiber optic tubes are some of them.
Any discussion of night sights probably ought to include at least some passing reference to the fact that it's only the tritium capsules that are illuminated .... meaning not the actual intended target. You still need light to see and identify what you're aiming at and intending to shoot. Light sources are still important, including ambient, environmental, hand-held or weapon-mounted. Not necessarily a bad idea to get a better understanding of how to employ any of them, and some level of training in their use.
I have a few pistols in which the tritium capsules are at, or approaching, the end of their service lives.
I might replace some, or maybe send the sights for new capsules (since I have a couple sight pushers and some brass/nylon drifts, as an armorer), but I'm not in a particular hurry.
I'm not working full-time anymore and finding myself in places and conditions every hour or so when I originally found them handy, and I still carry hand-held lights with me (if I'm going to be out after dark, but also if I'm going to be inside any commercial buildings where a power failure could be inconvenient).
I like them on my pair of M&P340 snubs, which use the standard size XS front night sight dot. Handy. Faster and quicker to align in normal light (because of the bright plastic ring), and useful in reduced light conditions (better than my 649, 642's, 36 and 37 with only painted ramps).
I guess someone could say that I'm probably an "either/or" guy when it comes to night sights nowadays. I like, have and use them on maybe half my retirement weapons, and still manage to get along fine using the other half without them.
Or, maybe I'm just lazy.
Which might be pertinent if I was talking about engaging targets in the dark out to 300m whilst the range was lit at best with a few glowsticks. (Which we did as well.) But we were mostly playing with IDPA rules, and early three gun for giggles. So targets, moving and fixed, from arm's length to at worst 35 yards. More close-in than far!
And, yes, muzzle flash can be a drama. Mostly with .357s. 9x19, .38 Spl., .45 ACP usually not too bad. (Neither are ARs with flash hiders, even inside, but the concussion is stout unless suppressed.)
I still often carry a non-night sighted S&W 940, but here's some others:
And "no sights" is fairly accurate description of a Remington 51 in low light!
M&P 340 with tritium front sight.
Most carried 1911 has Wilson night sights, which need a swap for Novaks one of these days...
A well used stainless Python that is a regular house gun and gets carried more often than any of my other "large" revolvers (except for hunting!) partly due to the sights and partly due to one particularly good holster.
The Glocks are both with and without, but the "without" carries an undergun light. Makes it hard to use for discrete carry, though, so...
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Harkrader
Member
I am not going to go out of a safe place to clear a room and I am not going to turn on a light (for the same reason that tracers work both ways), even one mounted on my gun, unless my finger is pressing the trigger. NO apologies to anyone, here, and I won't waste my time in argument and rebuttal. There are many ways to discover whether you are facing bad guys or family and friends, and if you aren't employing them throughout the event you're setting yourself up for a disaster.
As with anything else, training is what matters. I've trained with tritium sights since the late '70s. They allow keeping the gun in sight and aligned when it would otherwise be invisible in a very dark place, such as from cover, and I can instantly align it with my eyes to aim while keeping my attention on the target.
Suarez and Pincus have their points of view and though I am respectful of much of what I have read by them, I submit they are off base with this one. If you train with them you can use them. If not, whatever else you do, train, train, train. Or carry a ball bat instead.
As with anything else, training is what matters. I've trained with tritium sights since the late '70s. They allow keeping the gun in sight and aligned when it would otherwise be invisible in a very dark place, such as from cover, and I can instantly align it with my eyes to aim while keeping my attention on the target.
Suarez and Pincus have their points of view and though I am respectful of much of what I have read by them, I submit they are off base with this one. If you train with them you can use them. If not, whatever else you do, train, train, train. Or carry a ball bat instead.
kbm6893
Member
Only a few reviewers whose opinions I respect, I Suarez and Pincus ain't one of them. Pincus was a small town cop for what, 6 years? Now he's an "operator"? Most of those guys are clowns who would tell you hi-point is the only gun to have it hi-point paid them to tell you.
Night sights are OK, but I agree in a self defense shooting it's gonna be mostly point and shoot.
Biggfoot44
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Night sights are very useful , within a narrow range of circumstances.
The potential downsides are minimal.
Most of the advantages occur with front sight only, and the small downsides are substantialy reduced further.
All that said, by the pure numbers, a white light is more likely to be of use.
The potential downsides are minimal.
Most of the advantages occur with front sight only, and the small downsides are substantialy reduced further.
All that said, by the pure numbers, a white light is more likely to be of use.
jimbo728
Member
When my Atlanta PD 5903, with night sights, served as my dresser gun I noted how neat it was to be able to locate that pistol in a dark room in the dead of night. Those 3 little green dots on those half dead sights made it easy to spot that gun. Ive not needed it but it was nice to know it was there.
By the way, Im a light sleeper so odds are, I would see them long before an intruder.
Jim
By the way, Im a light sleeper so odds are, I would see them long before an intruder.
Jim
Kid44
Member
Fanner 50.
*** is a Fanner 50?
*** is a Fanner 50?
Something that helps you align your sights, or even only your front sight, may not be 'worthless' under some situations.
Assorted methods and techniques of holding hand-held light sources can also present potential risks in 'locating' the person using them.
TANSTAAFL.
Having a potential advantage on hand and available still requires being able to use it in an advantageous manner, in the appropriate circumstances and conditions. Not having it even available may be a disadvantage that can't easily be offset in another manner.
People get to choose, and with any decision comes the potential for consequences.
Lobster Picnic
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I have the XS White Dot on my J-frame and really like it. It doesn't glow but it's like the perfect daub of white paint on the sight. Perfectly round and it stands out well even in dim light.
The sights work well in daylight, too. I like the way the dot settles into the deep channel of the fixed rear sight.
The sights work well in daylight, too. I like the way the dot settles into the deep channel of the fixed rear sight.
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