AveragEd, me thinks that's a dealership/repair shop problem and not a car problem.
Stu
Stu
cry once
- Thread starter cracker57
- Start date
Why is the cost of reloading tools discussed with the wife? Does the wife discuss the cost of her shoes and makeup?
You know, I've had almost every progressive press at this point. The Lee progressives are just too demanding of my reloading time. I can make most progressives run well. The Dillon machines are less aggravating with the other brands kinda in between those two.That said... when a progressive machine gets fouled up it can be one of those moments in life where you seriously think of putting it out of your misery. I had a P-W machine I wanted to shoot with a 44 once. There was NO fixing it. Even P-W couldn't get it to run. They didn't like it but they had to send a new one... It did work! Of course we defend our choices..But there are some who love tinkering with a loader. Not me! When I was a P-W distributor I sold a few machines to 3 engineers who all worked at one company. They being what they were tried like heck to reinvent the P-W reloading press. I kept fixing their screwed up machines. They knew they had messed them up... and couldn't stop trying to make them better. Those three guys at one point almost kept me in business with reloading machine and gun repairs. Well not really...but they gave me a LOT of business. So truthfully any machine can mess up...but it is usually an operator error. Then there is the design flaws. Then there is the errors in making something so cheaply they screw it up. Which unhappily seems the norm these days. Anybody need a like new Loadmaster?
Last edited:
The point of this thread seems to be that progressive presses cost more than single station ones but are more desirable.
I'm not in a hurry to reload, and have no use for progressive presses. I consider reloading as relaxation time and I don't want to worry about the glitches that I often read about regarding double or skipped powder charging with progressive setups.
A few years ago, I (semi-) retired the RCBS Jr that I'd used for about 40 years and got a Lee turret press for the convenience of not having to keep setting-up dies. I use it as a single-stage press, though. It has worked perfectly.
My main time issue is finding enough shooting time to use up the ammunition I reload now. If I reloaded faster, I might have to stack it in the living room.
-Mark
I'm not in a hurry to reload, and have no use for progressive presses. I consider reloading as relaxation time and I don't want to worry about the glitches that I often read about regarding double or skipped powder charging with progressive setups.
A few years ago, I (semi-) retired the RCBS Jr that I'd used for about 40 years and got a Lee turret press for the convenience of not having to keep setting-up dies. I use it as a single-stage press, though. It has worked perfectly.
My main time issue is finding enough shooting time to use up the ammunition I reload now. If I reloaded faster, I might have to stack it in the living room.
-Mark
SLT223
Member
- Joined
- Jan 19, 2009
- Messages
- 3,530
- Reaction score
- 5,578
That's an incorrect assumption in my opinion. It's close to impossible to double charge with an auto indexing press like the 650. You have to significantly interfere with the operation to get the charged shell back under the powder measure since you cannot simply reverse the shell plate. It's no small feat.
You are far more likely to double charge with a single stage and a momentary lapse of attention.
No-charge is possible if you forget to install the fail safe bar, but then your powder charge alarm goes off when the still empty shell gets raised at position #3.
In my opinion an auto-indexing press is one of the safest ways to reload. It also happens to be faster. At least that's my take on Dillon 650, and why I'm so glad it was my first press.
Last edited:
I don't consider reloading a relaxing hobby. It is to me something necessary to do so I can enjoy a relaxing hobby... ie...shooting. From age 12 to 24 I reloaded for our business. It was a neat job for the first year or 2 as I was young ...After that it was a JOB. I averaged 3000 rounds a week. I was really glad when Winchester came out with the AA shotshell. So much better than paper or the early Rem plastics. Shooting them got to be a job too. But preferable to reloading them. I also reloaded for my hunting. Reloading 40 yrs later is still a job but one I do enjoy more than back then.
You may be right about the safety of progressive presses. My comment was based only on noticing that nearly every ammo mishap I read about seems to involve reloads from a progressive.
-Mark
flyfishinjunkee
Member
- Joined
- Sep 22, 2015
- Messages
- 273
- Reaction score
- 683
Since buying my Lee turret I have only cried tears of joy because the unit is such a great value. "buy once cry once " I don't subscribe to this line of thinking although I have friends that live by it.
Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
fredj338
Member
Again, it's not just about loading faster on a progressive, it's about doing less work. SS or turret press, you are pulling the handle 3-4x more. Shoot a lot, that is a lot of work savings in a progressive, regardless of the spped you run it.
The 550 can be run exactly as an inverted turret, if you want, or run it at the same speed as your turret, but in progressive mode, & you are doing 2/3 to 3/4 less work. Yes you have to pay a bit more money for that but the cost thing really gets to be old. $300-$400 more, so what, that is a case of pistol ammo, pretty much a non issue over even 10yrs of shooting. The work saved over 10yrs though, priceless.
fredj338
Member
I would venture just as many squibs & dobl charges are done by guys loading on a ss press & using a poor powder charging technique. Far easier to mess up 50 cases in a loading block than on at a time on even a 550 manual indexing press. IMO, you have to be a moron to double on a 550. Squib, yes, if you get even remotely careless, but as with most thing, it's about attention to detail & a good technique. Avoid becoming a handle puller, that is when krap happens, even on an auto indexing press. It is NOT impossible to double on an auto indexing press, just harder.
I understand your point. We obviously have different attitudes about reloading. I enjoy the process and find it relaxing.
If I didn't enjoy it, I wouldn't do it. It's not my job.
For me, reloading isn't so much about getting cheap ammo as it is about matching loads to my wants, and having a big choice of bullets. I've used reduced or moderate rifle loads to take a good many deer. Just my preference, though; I doubt that the deer would have noticed the difference.
I also appreciate the OP's enjoyment of high-quality gear, and I probably would, too. I doubt I'll make the leap to progressive, though.
-Mark
fredj338
Member
Really only a tiny bit faster if any over a 550 UNLESS you add the case feeder. I run both, ran the 650 for 2m w/o a case feeder. I might have gotten 50rds more per hour over the 550. You have to stop & add cases to the drop tube on a 650, it isn't setup to feed cases by hand like the 550. You wait for the shell plate to index & place a bullet on a 650 or place the bullet as you manually index on a 550, why auto indexing isn't really faster.
Progresive presses are very hard to double charge as long as you are stroking the handle correctly. The 550 slthough considered by most to be a progressive is actually a semi progressive as it has to be turned by hand. A progressive is actually an automated press and turns the shell plate feeds the primers and drops the powder charge. bullet feeding can be either done by a feeder of by hand. As I am somewhat dyslexic I never could use a Mec 650 and am not so great on a 550 Dillon. But I have used real progressives so long I pretty much use the Dillon 650s, 1050s and a couple of Spolars and a P-W shotshell loader. 12 ga shotshells I load on a Mec Sizemaster as I hardly ever shoot the 12 ga any more. I do know the progressives are expensive but I think you will never lose money buying Dillon or Spolar. Time truly is valuable...either money wise of work wise. Less work...more play. Learned less pulls on the handle equals more pulls on the trigger. Not knocking the guys that enjoy the reloading process though. Just not my cuppa joe. Never double charged anything on a progressive but did have a few shotshells with no powder.
SLT223
Member
- Joined
- Jan 19, 2009
- Messages
- 3,530
- Reaction score
- 5,578
I never ran mine w/o the case feeder. The whole point of the 650 is really the auto case feed. Regardless, you are only adding a bullet at that point. I can load 500 rounds an hour without trying very hard. That isn't the reason I bought it. I like complex toys that work well. My 650 runs like a fine tuned miniature symphony.
Last edited:
AveragEd
Member
500 rounds per minute??? Methinks you meant per hour? I have a 650 and know they can load a lot of ammo in a short time but that's approaching factory speed. I don't have the case feeder on my 650 because I didn't want that tall gadget interfering with reaching to the shelving behind the loaders.
Since I enjoy handloading and went to a progressive to lessen the number of rotations of my arthritic shoulders with torn rotator cuffs, outright speed is not a concern. I just reach through the loader with my left hand to place a case on the ramp, a bullet on the case waiting for one on the way out and pull the handle with my right hand, which never leaves the knob. I can load 250 rounds per hour at my leisurely pace with numerous breaks.
Ed
Since I enjoy handloading and went to a progressive to lessen the number of rotations of my arthritic shoulders with torn rotator cuffs, outright speed is not a concern. I just reach through the loader with my left hand to place a case on the ramp, a bullet on the case waiting for one on the way out and pull the handle with my right hand, which never leaves the knob. I can load 250 rounds per hour at my leisurely pace with numerous breaks.
Ed
SLT223
Member
- Joined
- Jan 19, 2009
- Messages
- 3,530
- Reaction score
- 5,578
500 rounds per minute??? Methinks you meant per hour? I have a 650 and know they can load a lot of ammo in a short time but that's approaching factory speed. I don't have the case feeder on my 650 because I didn't want that tall gadget interfering with reaching to the shelving behind the loaders.
Since I enjoy handloading and went to a progressive to lessen the number of rotations of my arthritic shoulders with torn rotator cuffs, outright speed is not a concern. I just reach through the loader with my left hand to place a case on the ramp, a bullet on the case waiting for one on the way out and pull the handle with my right hand, which never leaves the knob. I can load 250 rounds per hour at my leisurely pace with numerous breaks.
Ed
Ha! You must have posted as I was editing. I have a bunch of pimer tubes and load them all up before I start cranking. Once I get in a rhythm, things move quickly. It helps that I pretty much never need to stop the press for tweaking.
That's a very nice reloading bench by the way.
There's something wrong with that bench..It's too....too...clean!
Mine looked like that one time..right after I built it
Cleveland48
Member
- Joined
- Aug 4, 2014
- Messages
- 230
- Reaction score
- 208
AveragEd that is a great looking setup! I want one like that.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
500 rounds per minute??? Methinks you meant per hour? I have a 650 and know they can load a lot of ammo in a short time but that's approaching factory speed. I don't have the case feeder on my 650 because I didn't want that tall gadget interfering with reaching to the shelving behind the loaders.
Since I enjoy handloading and went to a progressive to lessen the number of rotations of my arthritic shoulders with torn rotator cuffs, outright speed is not a concern. I just reach through the loader with my left hand to place a case on the ramp, a bullet on the case waiting for one on the way out and pull the handle with my right hand, which never leaves the knob. I can load 250 rounds per hour at my leisurely pace with numerous breaks.
Ed
Nice desk lamp!
Clock it pretty cool also.
Last edited:
fredj338
Member
We agree on the case feeder, but many think they are getting a speed advantage JUST with auto indexing, not really. Manual or auto, it's still a progressive; taking one thru the process to get one handle pull & one finished round. LNL, 550, 650, all are about the same rate w/o a case feeder.
BTW, nothing semi progressive about a 550. It produces one round for one handle pull just like an auto index.
Last edited:
