Curio & Relic, how to start the process?

[red9]

"Any gun over 50 yrs old is a C&R."

Usually, but not always the case. If you look at Nipster's quote from the ATF site:

"Firearms automatically attain curio or relic (C&R) status when they are 50 years old. Any firearm that is at least 50 years old, and in its original configuration, would qualify as a C&R firearm. It is not necessary for such firearms to be listed in ATF's C&R list."

you see the key phrase "and in its original configuration." If the triplelock was originally rifled and then drilled out, it is unlikely that it would be exempted. Technically, even something less extreme, such as Cogswell & Harrison shortening the barrel of a Victory, would take it out of the C&R category.

Bob

 

[2152hq]

The issue isn't so much of a C&R one,,but the fact that the revolver is an NFA weapon in it's present condition.
It needs to be registered as such at the present time or be exempted by BATFE.

Wether the smooth bore is original to the manufacture or not, will play into the determination of C&R status. It will also determin wether the revolver will continue to exist after the BATFE Technology Division examins it.

They do allow original early Trapper model (bbls less than 16" long) Winchester, Marlin and other leveraction carbines to be registered,,actually exempted from the NFA rules after examination by them.
I do not know if smooth bore revolvers (classified as AOW's,, 'Any Other Weapons' under the NFA) are allowed the same inspection & status by them.

If the revolver isn't a factory original smoothbore barrel, neither is it a C&R,,nor will the BATFE consider issuing a registration/exemption to NFA staus for it. It would be considered a contraband and be confiscated.

Call BATFE Technology Division for the info you need.
*************************************************
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives
Firearms Technology Branch
244 Needy Road
Martinsburg, West Virginia 25405 USA

Added:
There are C&R class NFA firearms. The only thing the C&R classification really does is allow interstate shipment to a C&R license holder. It does not sidestep any NFA paperwork, transfer, registration requirements. They are still required.

There are a few highly collectable and rare firearm that have been designated as exempt from the NFA requirement of registration and tax stamp payment(s), such as some original Military shoulder stocked pistols.
But that's a general ruling and is made by the BATFE.

Individual rulings are made on a case by case inspection by the Technology Division, BATFE as in the Trapper carbine situation where no factory paperwork is available and/or the the validity of the configuration as being 'factory original' may be in doubt. That's why you see those arms listed by individual serial number on the BATFE website.

As always,,State and Local laws apply.

 

[wheelgun28]

I seem to recall a story about some Colt Army Specials, I think in 44/40 that are smooth bore. The C&R book with the brown cover lists them by serial number as being exempt from the NFA rules and covered by the C&R.

I think the Colts were used by a known trick shooter. He would throw stuff in the air and shoot it while it flew.

 

[nipster]

"Sending in a firearm to the ATF serves no purpose."

Not always correct. They may want to inspect the gun to verify that it is an eligible factory variation, not a later modification. In your case, I hope the factory letter would establish that to ATF's satisfaction.

Bob

For a handgun, that is absolutely not necessary as long as it's not been "caliber converted". Like a 38 S&W into a 38 spc or 32 long into a 32 mag or something like that. As far as the ATF is concerned, the frame is the firearm, if it's older than 50 years, it is C&R. Throwing new grips or even changing a barrel would not affect that.

For long guns it's completely different.

 

[nipster]

The issue isn't so much of a C&R one,,but the fact that the revolver is an NFA weapon in it's present condition.
It needs to be registered as such at the present time or be exempted by BATFE.

Wether the smooth bore is original to the manufacture or not, will play into the determination of C&R status. It will also determin wether the revolver will continue to exist after the BATFE Technology Division examins it.

They do allow original early Trapper model (bbls less than 16" long) Winchester, Marlin and other leveraction carbines to be registered,,actually exempted from the NFA rules after examination by them.
I do not know if smooth bore revolvers (classified as AOW's,, 'Any Other Weapons' under the NFA) are allowed the same inspection & status by them.

If the revolver isn't a factory original smoothbore barrel, neither is it a C&R,,nor will the BATFE consider issuing a registration/exemption to NFA staus for it. It would be considered a contraband and be confiscated.

Call BATFE Technology Division for the info you need.
*************************************************
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives
Firearms Technology Branch
244 Needy Road
Martinsburg, West Virginia 25405 USA

Added:
There are C&R class NFA firearms. The only thing the C&R classification really does is allow interstate shipment to a C&R license holder. It does not sidestep any NFA paperwork, transfer, registration requirements. They are still required.

There are a few highly collectable and rare firearm that have been designated as exempt from the NFA requirement of registration and tax stamp payment(s), such as some original Military shoulder stocked pistols.
But that's a general ruling and is made by the BATFE.

Individual rulings are made on a case by case inspection by the Technology Division, BATFE as in the Trapper carbine situation where no factory paperwork is available and/or the the validity of the configuration as being 'factory original' may be in doubt. That's why you see those arms listed by individual serial number on the BATFE website.

As always,,State and Local laws apply.

As I mentioned in a previous post, most of what you mention in that post does not relate to handguns, it is for long guns. You cannot really make a revolver into an NFA firearm. Handguns do not have minimum barrel length restrictions like long guns do. And bore type (smooth or rifled) should not matter either.

Again, long guns, different story.

 

[Muley Gil]

"And bore type (smooth or rifled) should not matter either."

But, it does!

Thompson Contender single shot handguns made in .410 have to have rifled barrels. The Ithaca Auto Burglar was a handgun size short barreled shotgun. They are also NFA firearms.

Re-read Mike Priwer's post (# 19).

Taken from Federal law, S5845:



(e) Any other weapon. The term 'any
other weapon' means any weapon or
device capable of being concealed on the
person from which a shot can be discharged
through the energy of an explosive,
a pistol or revolver having a barrel
with a smooth bore designed or redesigned
to fire a fixed shotgun shell, weapons
with combination shotgun and rifle
barrels 12 inches or more, less than 18
inches in length, from which only a single
discharge can be made from either barrel
without manual reloading, and shall include
any such weapon which may be
readily restored to fire. Such term shall
not include a pistol or a revolver having a
rifled bore, or rifled bores, or weapons
designed, made, or intended to be fired
from the shoulder and not capable of
firing fixed ammunition.

 

[nipster]

"And bore type (smooth or rifled) should not matter either."

But, it does!

Thompson Contender single shot handguns made in .410 have to have rifled barrels. The Ithaca Auto Burglar was a handgun size short barreled shotgun. They are also NFA firearms.

Re-read Mike Priwer's post (# 19).

Taken from Federal law, S5845:



(e) Any other weapon. The term 'any
other weapon' means any weapon or
device capable of being concealed on the
person from which a shot can be discharged
through the energy of an explosive,
a pistol or revolver having a barrel
with a smooth bore designed or redesigned
to fire a fixed shotgun shell, weapons
with combination shotgun and rifle
barrels 12 inches or more, less than 18
inches in length, from which only a single
discharge can be made from either barrel
without manual reloading, and shall include
any such weapon which may be
readily restored to fire. Such term shall
not include a pistol or a revolver having a
rifled bore, or rifled bores, or weapons
designed, made, or intended to be fired
from the shoulder and not capable of
firing fixed ammunition.

A shotgun is considered a long gun, no matter what the barrel length.

Centerfire pistols dont have those restrictions.

The "any other weapon" is a catchall in the definitions after pistols, rifles, shotguns, etc are defined.

EDIT: Let me re-read the statute

 

[nipster]

Guys, to clear this up once and for all:

26 USC § 5845 - Definitions

For the purpose of this chapter—

(a) Firearm
The term "firearm" means
(1) a shotgun having a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length;
(2) a weapon made from a shotgun if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length;
(3) a rifle having a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length;
(4) a weapon made from a rifle if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length;
(5) any other weapon, as defined in subsection (e);
(6) a machinegun;
(7) any silencer (as defined in section 921 of title 18, United States Code); and
(8) a destructive device. The term "firearm" shall not include an antique firearm or any device (other than a machinegun or destructive device) which, although designed as a weapon, the Secretary finds by reason of the date of its manufacture, value, design, and other characteristics is primarily a collector's item and is not likely to be used as a weapon.
(b) Machinegun
The term "machinegun" means any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger. The term shall also include the frame or receiver of any such weapon, any part designed and intended solely and exclusively, or combination of parts designed and intended, for use in converting a weapon into a machinegun, and any combination of parts from which a machinegun can be assembled if such parts are in the possession or under the control of a person.
(c) Rifle
The term "rifle" means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed cartridge to fire only a single projectile through a rifled bore for each single pull of the trigger, and shall include any such weapon which may be readily restored to fire a fixed cartridge.
(d) Shotgun
The term "shotgun" means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed shotgun shell to fire through a smooth bore either a number of projectiles (ball shot) or a single projectile for each pull of the trigger, and shall include any such weapon which may be readily restored to fire a fixed shotgun shell.
(e) Any other weapon
The term "any other weapon" means any weapon or device capable of being concealed on the person from which a shot can be discharged through the energy of an explosive, a pistol or revolver having a barrel with a smooth bore designed or redesigned to fire a fixed shotgun shell, weapons with combination shotgun and rifle barrels 12 inches or more, less than 18 inches in length, from which only a single discharge can be made from either barrel without manual reloading, and shall include any such weapon which may be readily restored to fire. Such term shall not include a pistol or a revolver having a rifled bore, or rifled bores, or weapons designed, made, or intended to be fired from the shoulder and not capable of firing fixed ammunition.

 

[nipster]

I just confused myself reading some of these codes.

From what I found 26 USC § 5845 is ONLY APPLICABLE to registering NFA weapons.

Thompson Contender single shot handguns made in .410 have to have rifled barrels. The Ithaca Auto Burglar was a handgun size short barreled shotgun. They are also NFA firearms.

In the example given, even if it is more than 50 years old, since it is, by definition, a short barreled shotgun (SBS), it would still have to go through the NFA process.

I didnt read though every post, somehow, we went from the OP talking about a triple lock to SBS's and NFA somehow.

For the OP, since it is a centerfire pistol, it does not have to be registered. It's a C&R.

 

[Dan M]

Hear is a Marbles Gamegetter 22/410 OU I used to own. they (BATF) did not exempt the gun because I was missing the shoulder stock they came/issued with and the Barrel was 12" long. The point I am trying to make is all Shotguns are not long guns, it was considered a handgun without the detachable shoulderstock.

Dan

 

[handejector]

Guys, to clear this up once and for all:

26 USC § 5845 - Definitions

For the purpose of this chapter—

(a) Firearm
The term "firearm" means
(1) a shotgun having a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length;
(2) a weapon made from a shotgun if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length;
(3) a rifle having a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length;
(4) a weapon made from a rifle if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length;
(5) any other weapon, as defined in subsection (e);
(6) a machinegun;
(7) any silencer (as defined in section 921 of title 18, United States Code); and
(8) a destructive device. The term "firearm" shall not include an antique firearm or any device (other than a machinegun or destructive device) which, although designed as a weapon, the Secretary finds by reason of the date of its manufacture, value, design, and other characteristics is primarily a collector's item and is not likely to be used as a weapon.
(b) Machinegun
The term "machinegun" means any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger. The term shall also include the frame or receiver of any such weapon, any part designed and intended solely and exclusively, or combination of parts designed and intended, for use in converting a weapon into a machinegun, and any combination of parts from which a machinegun can be assembled if such parts are in the possession or under the control of a person.
(c) Rifle
The term "rifle" means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed cartridge to fire only a single projectile through a rifled bore for each single pull of the trigger, and shall include any such weapon which may be readily restored to fire a fixed cartridge.
(d) Shotgun
The term "shotgun" means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed shotgun shell to fire through a smooth bore either a number of projectiles (ball shot) or a single projectile for each pull of the trigger, and shall include any such weapon which may be readily restored to fire a fixed shotgun shell.
(e) Any other weapon
The term "any other weapon" means any weapon or device capable of being concealed on the person from which a shot can be discharged through the energy of an explosive, a pistol or revolver having a barrel with a smooth bore designed or redesigned to fire a fixed shotgun shell, weapons with combination shotgun and rifle barrels 12 inches or more, less than 18 inches in length, from which only a single discharge can be made from either barrel without manual reloading, and shall include any such weapon which may be readily restored to fire. Such term shall not include a pistol or a revolver having a rifled bore, or rifled bores, or weapons designed, made, or intended to be fired from the shoulder and not capable of firing fixed ammunition.

Do you get it yet?
A smoothbore handgun is not a legal weapon.
Did you maybe stop and WONDER why there are NONE on the market?

 

[handejector]

For the OP, since it is a centerfire pistol, it does not have to be registered. It's a C&R.

You are WRONG.

 

[nipster]

Do you get it yet?
A smoothbore handgun is not a legal weapon.
Did you maybe stop and WONDER why there are NONE on the market?

I figured there were none on the market because it would be a terrible platform for a centerfire cartridge. It would be pretty inaccurate at any real distance.

The law, as written is to prevent people from creating what would in essense be a SBS. It's not to stop people from making smooth bore pistols. Common sense should prevent that for the reason I said above.

I missed the smoothbore part of the OP's question.

 

[nipster]

nevermind..

 

[wheelgun28]

I just looked in the Book Firearms Curious or Relics List, ATF publication 5300.11 Revised 12/2007. In section III Page 34, it lists "Weapons removed from the NFA as collectors Items And Classified as Curious Or Relics Under the GCA"

There are many Colts listed New Service, SAA all are listed by serial number and have a smooth bore. These are exempt from the NFA rules and are C&R.

Others are not.

You can petition the BATF for an exemption and have it added to the list.

The only S&W I see listed is A M&P Sn 112037 with an original Ideal holster/shoulder stock

And the S&W light rifle M40 9mm

Sorry, if its not on the list, it needs a stamp...


Looks like this thread has run its coarse.

For future searches about how to get a C&R questions

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/curios-relics.html