Its quite different from the 1935A, to be honest. The Swiss got the license and totally redid the pistol. The 1935A is much smaller and lighter. It also does not have the P210's slide inside the frame configuration.
CZ 75b vs. Sig P210
- Thread starter American1776
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Its quite different from the 1935A, to be honest. The Swiss got the license and totally redid the pistol. The 1935A is much smaller and lighter. It also does not have the P210's slide inside the frame configuration.
Arik
Member
Not at all. I even put that phrase into a question! "DOES it work with. ..." And I was simply going off Sigs history with the P6 and the original 220 9mm, neither of which really did work with HP. This is not and was not a knock on Sig it's just what it was back then. HP were in their infancy and not a lot of guns could reliably feed them.
I just look at it from a working perspective. As in working (as in JOB not function) guns, cars, ...etc.. As an example I can use a 1956 Powell sport wagon as a work truck but if something broke it would be out for a while or I can use a F150/chevy 1500 and if something broke I can be on the road often the same day. There is nothing wrong with either one but certain things lend themselves better to being everyday objects
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Hmmm. . . I guess we will have to tell the testers who signed all those targets that they measured wrong.
They really WILL shoot that good. And, unlike some guns, such as Les Baer which can be had with the 1.5 inch guarantee at 50 yards, the 210 will actually open and close without the need for a sledge hammer to break open the sticky action.
OP
American1776
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Thanks everyone for the opinions. I'll probably end up with both eventually.
BigBill
Absent Comrade
The cz hands down. My cz85db is awesome. It's a amberdexterious cz75.
I want a cz75 next.
I want a cz75 next.
Hands down? You're that sure, huh?
I'm a big CZ fan and own many, but there's no way that gun holds a candle to the Sig P210 in terms of accuracy, durability, and build quality. Its also bigger and heavier as a carry gun.
Any experience with a P210? Doesn't sound like it...
Hmmm. . . I guess we will have to tell the testers who signed all those targets that they measured wrong.
They really WILL shoot that good. And, unlike some guns, such as Les Baer which can be had with the 1.5 inch guarantee at 50 yards, the 210 will actually open and close without the need for a sledge hammer to break open the sticky action.
Shawn, whatever an individual gun may happen to do, as I understand it 2-inches at 50M is not the standard the Swiss P210s were manufactured to, nor was it the standard for acceptance of pistols by the Swiss Army. (Remember, this is the model that the OP said interested him - not the recent Sauer reproduction.)
"...The pistols are then tested for accuracy in a machine rest. They are fired at a distance of 50 meters (54.5 yards). Each gun must print an 8-shot group within a rectangle 5-1/2 inches high by 4 inches wide. In most cases guns group well within the rectangle."
Source: Hausler, Fritz, Schweizer Faustfeuerwaffen, Weinfelden: Thurgauer Yagblatt AG, 1975, p. 135.
I do not disagree with anyone wishing to make the case that these are beautiful old pistols capable of very fine accuracy, and I certainly am not about to part with the one I consider myself fortunate to own in exchange for a more "modern" pistol such as a CZ, but I have always found many of the fantastic claims about accuracy a bit amusing. In many cases these claims were literally beyond the capability of the best ammunition (at the time those pistols were being made) when fired in fixed test barrels, let alone considering the combined errors of both pistol and ammunition. I wish my P210 (a -2 model) consistently would shoot a 2-inch 50 meter group, but I doubt that it will.
If anyone has other information that has been published by an authoritative source, I hope they will cite it here.
Typical two inch test targets at 50 meters, 10 shots, shot from a machine are the reason that this pistol is still popular at the 50 m event in Switzerland.
The rectangle stayed the same size over the years, number of shots obviously changed to ten.
SIG
" One of the Swiss military specifications was that the service pistol had to be equally usable unmodified for competitions at 50 meters as its predecessor, the Swiss Parabellum 06/29, chambered in 7.65x21.5mm. The target was a Swiss C50 at a distance of 50m (54.68 yards), with the 10 ring a disk of 5 centimeters, just under 2" in diameter. SIG zeroes the P210 with Swiss military issue ammunition with a point of impact placed 10cm above the point of aim in order to allow a six o’clock hold on the standard target. SIG zeroes the pistols individually and in most cases installs a front sight marked with the letter N. "
http://larvatus.livejournal.com/33732.html
I hope Michael won't mind linking to his fine research.
The rectangle stayed the same size over the years, number of shots obviously changed to ten.
SIG
" One of the Swiss military specifications was that the service pistol had to be equally usable unmodified for competitions at 50 meters as its predecessor, the Swiss Parabellum 06/29, chambered in 7.65x21.5mm. The target was a Swiss C50 at a distance of 50m (54.68 yards), with the 10 ring a disk of 5 centimeters, just under 2" in diameter. SIG zeroes the P210 with Swiss military issue ammunition with a point of impact placed 10cm above the point of aim in order to allow a six o’clock hold on the standard target. SIG zeroes the pistols individually and in most cases installs a front sight marked with the letter N. "
http://larvatus.livejournal.com/33732.html
I hope Michael won't mind linking to his fine research.
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The P-210 is not really a great weapon for weapon's sake. A few things just make it very hard to work with....the heel mag release, capacity, the positioning of the safety, the way the sights are usually set. It does have a very nice sight picture and because of its weight it has low perceived recoil. If you shoot one enough you eventually can overcome these limitations some, and of course as a shooter it is quite special.
But my P226 is close, and it provides double the capacity and is much easier to work with. Some of my revolvers can also rival it, at least for me. Nothing looks or feels like an old target P210, though. This does count for something. It is fun to pull it out to shoot one. It does get noticed.
The slide release is pretty far forward, I know I cannot reach it with my right thumb one handed. You have to have a pretty long thumb to work the slide that way. The back of the P210 esp with target sights has some sharper edges too, so slingshotting it is not always a picnic. As a pointer, yes, fantastic gun, fits the hand brilliantly. But the safety and slide release are not the cleanest designs I have. For those I pick my 1911s.
The only P226 I own that's close is an X-Five.
My West German model is not a match for my P210s at all. Not even close...
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rburg
Member
Oh yeah, and while you're at it pick up a 22 cal kit and a few of those mags, too.
Remember, its only money.The real problem here is that we're living in the dusk of these fine guns being available. Soon they'll be like 4" Triple Locks. Sure, a few around but the asking prices will become unreasonable. If you want one (everyone wants one) and reasonably think you may someday buy one, now's the time. Wait a few years and you'll manage a bunch of laughs when you even ask about them. This is where the Registered Magnums were maybe 10 years ago.
When I bought my first P210, I ordered and received a pair of mags for the princely sum of $70 each. The gunshop owner was embarrassed at charging me so much. A year or two later he got in a -7 gun. He wanted $2000 for it, but told me if I bought it that day and paid cash, he'd let me have it for $1800. Yes, it had 2 of the white zipper mags, made of unobtainium. The pond is full of raw sewage, but you come out smelling of roses. Doesn't happen every day, so jump on the opportunity if you get it. Buy the P210 and keep smiling. I heard they aren't making them any more. Just cheap knock offs in the next country over.
Too bad they didn't install round counters in the guns. Next time you see 9mm (or .30 luger) on sale, multiply out the cost of a quarter million rounds.
It makes you realize the gun is the cheap part of it all. Gasoline to and from the range will also cost more than the guns.
Rock185
US Veteran
I've had three CZ75s, the last a B model. Good reliable service grade guns. Also owned and operated a few Swiss and German P210s. My good and reliable CZs did not compare in fit of component parts, clean internal and external machine work, trigger quality, finish or accuracy to the P210s of Swiss or German manufacture. One thing equal between the P210s and CZ75s, at least within my humble experience, is reliability. They both just work every time. I sometimes see people equate the CZ75 to the P210 due to the arrangement of the slide and frame rails. IMHO the rail arrangement, reliability and 9MM caliber are about the only thing those two pistols have in common. There are reasons, way beyond "bragging rights", why the P210s are so highly thought of and command prices several times what a CZ75 costs. That being said, for carry I would pick the more pedestrian, but equally reliable, CZ75....ymmv
Which is just ridiculous and shows how clueless some people are about handgun design, as the two are totally different. There are several pistols with slides that ride inside the frame. I've got many besides the CZ and Sig, such as the Pardini GT9, Star 30M, and some others...
Besides that, should we link other pistols together, because the slide rides OVER the frame? Makes no sense...
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Rick_A
Member
The Sig is the closest thing to a match pistol that there's ever been in a military sidearm.
The CZ is easily among the most ergonomic and smartly engineered pistols ever. It wins practical shooting matches the world over and makes a good combat pistol as well.
The Sig makes a better bullseye shooter and is a classic. The CZ is a modern classic and is frankly more practical for everything else.
Honestly if you like them both there's no reason why not to get them.
I like the Sig P210, but not enough to own one. It's just a little too big and heavy to be useful to me.
The CZ is easily among the most ergonomic and smartly engineered pistols ever. It wins practical shooting matches the world over and makes a good combat pistol as well.
The Sig makes a better bullseye shooter and is a classic. The CZ is a modern classic and is frankly more practical for everything else.
Honestly if you like them both there's no reason why not to get them.
I like the Sig P210, but not enough to own one. It's just a little too big and heavy to be useful to me.
Rick_A
Member
If he likes both and doesn't want to buy both, what's the big deal? The OP didn't mention design or technical merits. Hell, there's been a couple instances where I was shopping for an auto and got revolvers instead. It's all about what you like.
An X-5 is of course a brilliant, brilliant gun in its own right. My P226 is reasonably close in my hands. Is it as tight? No. Can I put 30 on paper at reasonable distances in the time I could shoot nine from my P210? Absolutely, I've shot it a lot, and it is a really good pistol. And that's why my P226 is either with me or next to me and the P210 is in the safe.
If I ever know that I will be in harm's way yet again and having to rely on a handgun, it won't be the SIG P210 that I would choose to have with me, neither any of my Korths, customs 1911s, or other fine range guns. I will feel comfortable with a cheap, worn and ugly Glock.
I would not be able to post, hadn't it been for those simple, yet effective tools.
Yet, the P 210 would have done.
I would not be able to post, hadn't it been for those simple, yet effective tools.
Yet, the P 210 would have done.
Given the quality of Swiss ammo, I wouldn't find such accuracy claims all that exaggerative. The issued GP11 for example used in the 1911 and K31 rifles was considered match grade, and having used quite a bit of the stuff through my K31, I believe it.
CptCurl
Member
The Sig P210 is an iconic pistol. It is pure pleasure to hold and admire. Racking the slide is your first tactile feedback, and it is pure butter. I'm glad I own one. Yes I had to pay the going price, but as said above, what will the going price be in 10 years?
I have two complaints. First, the P210 has an annoying propensity to bite me in the web of my hand. I am not ham-fisted, but this thing wants a piece of my hand.
Second, magazines for the military, butt release guns are hard to find and quite expensive. I have two. Does anybody have a line on these magazines reasonably priced?
Get a P210 and don't look back. It's a piece of history. You won't lose a dime. The CZ75 can be had also. If you buy the P210 you will end up with the CZ75 alongside it soon enough. That's not a bad outcome!
Curl
I have two complaints. First, the P210 has an annoying propensity to bite me in the web of my hand. I am not ham-fisted, but this thing wants a piece of my hand.
Second, magazines for the military, butt release guns are hard to find and quite expensive. I have two. Does anybody have a line on these magazines reasonably priced?
Get a P210 and don't look back. It's a piece of history. You won't lose a dime. The CZ75 can be had also. If you buy the P210 you will end up with the CZ75 alongside it soon enough. That's not a bad outcome!
Curl
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