DAG plastic practice ammo- a dumb question

[scoobysnacker]

I have a probably dumb question-

So, I purchased a case of the DAG 7.62 NATO ammo, which has blue plastic case and bullet, a steel case head and primer, and some live powder.
Enough powder in the case that it will fire, and the 10gr plastic bullet will chrono over 4500 fps at a short (chronograph) distance, and hit roughly same point of aim as regular ammo at up to about 100 yds.

My actual intent of use is to shoot it out of an Ishapore 2A1, an Enfield bolt-action rifle factory-chambered in 7.62 NATO. I have a couple other, semi-auto rifles in that caliber (or 308), I fully understand the ammo would not cycle and possibly not eject (slightly smaller case head, clearly documented).

Here's my question- other bolt-action rifles, in different (30 cal) chamberings.
I understand you don't shoot different caliber ammo, "bad things happen". 99% of those bad things happen due to unsupported cases and overpressure in the chamber. As in, you don't shoot 9x23 Winchester in a pistol chambered in 9mm Largo, it dimensionally will fit but pressure is way too high.

I guess I'm wondering about stuff like 7.5x53.5 Swiss, the old GP90 for antique Schmidt-Rubin rifles. The case dimensions are "similar", meaning I could probably chamber this plastic ammo. Looks like the neck is a hair shorter, just going off internet pictures. As for chamber pressure- I would think this is way below even standard pressure- again, it's pushing a 10 gr plastic bullet. The videos I've seen, the bullet bounces off ballistic gelatin at maybe 10 yds. Recoil seems non-existent.

I know the correct answer is "NO", but I wanted to get input from people who might know more than I do.

I know there are examples where people can/do shoot other chamberings safely- for example, 7.62x54R in a Steyr M1888/90 or M95 in 8x50R. I've seen that on another board (gunboards.com), some people yelling "no it's not safe because it's not the correct chambering", while others are saying "yes, safe"- the case has the same dimensions, and the bullet is smaller, so the bullet doesn't fully seal the barrel- any gas pressure goes past it. You get terrible accuracy, but people say that's how you fireform the brass to reload.
I wouldn't have known that, but it makes sense, and I've watched videos of people doing it.

Thanks for any replies

 

[WR Moore]

OK, that ammo was (at least when I heard about it long ago) intended for (very?) short range practice/training of NATO troops. You're correct that it won't cycle the G3, probably any gas operated guns like the FN FAL, etc.

No clue as to pressures, maybe a search? I'd be real hesitant to try it in "other" caliber guns, especially in antiques. Maybe someone with more/better info will chip in.

 

[NYlakesider]

I tend to live by, If in doubt, don't!

 

[LVSteve]

To run the DAG ammo in a G3 you need the lightweight bolt that doesn't have the roller lock.

I'm interested that the OP has seen videos of the plastic bullet bouncing off ballistic gelatin at 10 yards. A guy on Gunboards posted how he found the bullet would pass through wood planks at similar range.

I've shot this ammo from a Chilean 1912 long rifle converted to 762 NATO. It's a hoot. There is a crack, a bit like a 9mm fired outside, and no recoil.

 

[scoobysnacker]

I'm interested that the OP has seen videos of the plastic bullet bouncing off ballistic gelatin at 10 yards. A guy on Gunboards posted how he found the bullet would pass through wood planks at similar range.

Yes, the videos show both. The plastic bullet WILL go through wood or another hard surface; but it boinks off gelatin. I wonder if it's got something to do with the relatively low mass of the projectile, and the rigidity/lack thereof of the surface impacted. It appears to blow through something that doesn't give (thus the energy is enough to go through wood, sheetrock etc). But I guess because the gelatin DOES give, it quickly dumps that kinetic energy into the gelatin, and the whole block bounces a little... but doesn't keep pushing in and through.
I saw both MAC do a video, and Sam Gabbert. Like I said, it does punch through wood, up to 50 yds easily. But MAC, I think he said he had bullets bouncing back past him from close range on the gelatin. Gabbert got 1 to go in about an inch, and a couple more bounce off.

I've shot this ammo from a Chilean 1912 long rifle converted to 762 NATO. It's a hoot. There is a crack, a bit like a 9mm fired outside, and no recoil.

I really look forward to the Ishapore, and doing this. I hand-cycled some, they do eject.

To run the DAG ammo in a G3 you need the lightweight bolt that doesn't have the roller lock.

I have the C308, which is Cetme based. I understand that the part of the carrier that goes into the charging handle tube is a bit too large for the Cetme format, but someone on FAL Files (I think) said you could carefully grind the part down (it's basically a bell at the end of it) to where it would fit; and once it fits it would run.

If I could find it, I'd buy one just to check that out.

 

[scoobysnacker]

No clue as to pressures, maybe a search? I'd be real hesitant to try it in "other" caliber guns, especially in antiques. Maybe someone with more/better info will chip in.

Yeah, searching has not turned anything up.

I don't know the amount of pressure required to push a 10gr plastic bullet at 4500+ fps (close to the muzzle), and I don't know the tensile strength of the plastic case.

I kinda think for the first part, it might be a pretty good load. Maybe not full load, but more than a blank. You lose velocity downrange pretty quick because the light plastic bullet doesn't handle air pressure like a lead one does, but you need something significant to push it that fast at first.

Regarding the plastic case... I'd feel more comfortable if it were brass. A light load and it would fire-form, most likely (and the info on the Swiss round seems to have same projectile diameter, so there's that). But a plastic case might just shatter if it's not supported completely.

Hell, if I could figure out what the pressure is (and if it's in the safe range), I'd be half-tempted to buy some PPU brass, and swap the powder and projectile to them.