Date of manufacture of .44 Double Action Frontier No 12,250

mrcvs

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To Ed, (opoefc)

I noted you had foreman's records for a .44 Russian DA First Model, in a recent thread. As this DA Frontier is of similar vintage, have you the foreman"s records on this one?

I thank you in advance.
 
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Please post us some nice images of the old "DA" so we can have fun seeing it?
 
.44DA # 12,250 was made July 25, 1884.(Correction: 7/25/84 is for a .44DA in Russian caliber. #12,250 .44DA Frontier in 44-40 cal. made May 21, 1901. I didn't notice you said "Frontier model " ED
 
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.44DA # 12,250 was made July 25, 1884.

Wow, that's absolutely nothing short of AMAZING as it did not ship until July of 1901, as per Roy over on the private side. It sat in inventory for 17 years!!!

As far as photographs go, I am intentionally holding these back as there is provenance with this one and I have an article "in the works" for the Journal. We shall see if it is worthy of publication or not. There is some primary source information I need to access and this is on hold due to social distancing.

I submitted a request for a factory letter in early May so hopefully it shall arrive soon.
 
This .44 DA Frontier serial no 11941 was shipped from the factory on June 1, 1901 and delivered to Montgomery Wards Co., Chicago.
schof45-albums-misc-picture21936-s-w-44-da-frontier-6-a.jpg
 
Shipping date vs. Manufacue date?

Oh Well,
That got me excited also Mike...17 years difference? that would have been one to document.

However, it's not really unusual in that era for guns to sit in the factory for 10 years or more. I have documented several antique Colts that were proven to have been discontinued at the factory in 1886 ( The .41 cal and several 38 cf. New House Pistols). Also a double cased and engraved set of .41 cf Colt Newline revolvers that were actually discontinued in 1877 (NOT what is presently found on the webs as 1879 for the 41 & 38 Newlines!)(Factory records proven) and both were shipped in 1894( New House) and 1886( New line cased set) respectively. So those guns sat for about 10 years before actually being shipped.

Murph
 
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.44DA # 12,250 was made July 25, 1884.(Correction: 7/25/84 is for a .44DA in Russian caliber. #12,250 .44DA Frontier in 44-40 cal. made May 21, 1901. I didn't notice you said "Frontier model " ED

Thank you Ed. If it's not too much trouble, when was 10,106, also a DA Frontier manufactured? I promise you it's the last one I will ask about as it is the only other one I own. (Shipped 26 Nov 1900, as per the factory letter).

Initially, I was amazed by the manufacture date relative to the ship date, and I never even thought to assess for "is this even possible"? As these were produced 1886 to 1913, I imagine a production date of 1884 would be impossible to begin with.

But, this is interesting, nonetheless, as a production date of Tuesday 21 May 1901 tells us some interesting things. First, as all frames were forged prior to 1899, there was at least a 3 year lag time from forging to assembly, and so it is not such that a fully assembled revolver remained in stock for in excess of three years. Also, interesting about this revolver is that the barrel is stamped ".44 WINCHESTER CTG", whereas number 10,106 is not stamped as such. The ship date on these are only 8 months apart, which suggests, although does not prove, that the stamped barrels came about at some point during this 8 month time frame, unless, of course, 10,106 was assembled much earlier, which is why I requested the date of manufacture.

If the date of manufacture of 10,106 is not much prior to the ship date, it suggests that components may have been manufactured much closer to the assembly date than the forging date, and may have not been kept in stock, but manufactured as needed. Or, maybe perhaps most components were in stock and it was decided to stamp barrels assembled by the time 12,250 was manufactured, but not at the time 10,106 was manufactured.

Also, it is interesting that the stamped barrels on these acknowledge a competing manufacturer (Winchester) instead of just stating .44 WCF (of course the W does stand for Winchester), or .44-40. Perhaps because Winchester did not produce similar firearms (at that time, Smith & Wesson was mostly revolvers and Winchester was long arms), perhaps it was deemed acceptable to at least acknowledge a competitor.

I have decided that, although it is hoped my article, once completed, might have some element of surprise, it cannot hurt to post the completed auction link, and so I will provide that. Amazingly, it appears much better in person than the auction photographs present it as, and the wear to the barrel and other blemishes, as depicted in auction photographs, are almost nonexistent.

Fine Smith & Wesson 44 Double Action Frontier Revolver

I am not stating that my article, which will take me some time to compose, will even be worthy of publication, but I am going to give it a try. It will be some time until I get this completed. Also, it might be deemed pure rubbish, in which case I will update this thread with some most interesting information about the past history of this revolver.
 
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That got me excited also Mike...

My name is Ian, so please keep that in mind, LOL!

Also, you really need to join the SWCA. You are, otherwise, missing out on A LOT!
 
Correction

Sorry Ian.


Ed,
44 Winchester does sound better.


Murph
 
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Ian, 10,106 was born May 18, 1890. The log books do not use the caliber of 44-40 for the Frontiers, they say "Winchester" for the Frontiers. Ed

Thank you, Ed! Now that's interesting. THIS particular revolver shipped 10 years 6 months and 8 days after manufacture!
 
Ian, 10,106 was born May 18, 1890. The log books do not use the caliber of 44-40 for the Frontiers, they say "Winchester" for the Frontiers. Ed

Hi opoefc,

So, you have Data on Assembly-completion dates?

Where is the best place to ask you if one has an old S & W one would like to know this for?
 
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Opoefc
If you can do one more, I have # 2802???
Mike
 
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