Apparently you never owned one.
Dead end handguns designs
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Apparently you never owned one.
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BLACKHAWKNJ
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I have handled and fired one, and when Winston used his at Omdurman in 1898 it was state of the art. He wrote that due to a shoulder injury he decided to use a handgun instead of his sword and he probably realized more than 6 rounds would be handy. Other than the Spanish Astra look alikes and the Chinese copies nobody else picked up the design, no repros today that I know of. The one time I fired a Luger I found the toggle action very distracting, its main appeal is it feels good in the hand and points naturally.
The Mauser M1910/1914/1934-like the Cz-27 which they resemble-had long production runs but have inspired no successor designs unlike JMB.
The Mauser M1910/1914/1934-like the Cz-27 which they resemble-had long production runs but have inspired no successor designs unlike JMB.
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BLACKHAWKNJ
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The revolver that fires semiauto rounds is not so much of a dead end-think of the S&W M-25 so much an idea that flickers off and on-"They oughta make", then they do-and it doesn't sell. There's the one cylinder for all calibers-have hazy memories of a cylinder firing 9MMP, 38 Super, 9mm Largo (?), moonclips vs a specially designed ejector. Taurus lists their 692 revolver with interchangeable .357/9MMP cylinders.
eveled, you are thinking of the S&W M547, 10,000 made 1980-1985, now it seems they are quite desireable.
eveled, you are thinking of the S&W M547, 10,000 made 1980-1985, now it seems they are quite desireable.
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There was the Medusa revolver that seemed like a good idea but never really took off.
I think Charter Arms has made revolvers in 9mm that didn't require moonclips but I'm not 100% sure about that.
Moonclips seem here to stay as it is a relatively cheap and easy way to achieve the goal.
THE PILGRIM
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Just knew I was in love with the P7!
So my Buddy gets some, German Police trade -ins I think.
Took me a good 10-15 sec to realize,
I don’t like this Gun!
I know, they have gone up faster than most anything else I have bought.
And I could have had one at Wholesale!
So my Buddy gets some, German Police trade -ins I think.
Took me a good 10-15 sec to realize,
I don’t like this Gun!
I know, they have gone up faster than most anything else I have bought.
And I could have had one at Wholesale!
ACORN
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OP
BLACKHAWKNJ
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There was the Charter Arms Pittbull in the 1980s chambered for the out of production 9MM Federal-a rimmed 9MMP, sort of like the Auto Rim. Short-lived, unsuccesful and proprietary rounds are a study in themselves.
Would the Chiappa Rhino fit into this conversation? I have handled one a couple of times and just didn't like the way the felt in my hand. Have never fired one though. But this may not qualify, as they are still being produced!
I would also have to add the S&W Model 53 in 22 Rem Jet to this list. I have one and it's fun to shoot, but they certainly didn't sell well in their day.
My other one I have been thinking of is the Mauser M2. Not for the rotating barrel, but mainly for the positioning of the safety on the rear of the pistol frame! I don't mind it all too much, but it is an odd location for a manual safety if you ask me.
I would also have to add the S&W Model 53 in 22 Rem Jet to this list. I have one and it's fun to shoot, but they certainly didn't sell well in their day.
My other one I have been thinking of is the Mauser M2. Not for the rotating barrel, but mainly for the positioning of the safety on the rear of the pistol frame! I don't mind it all too much, but it is an odd location for a manual safety if you ask me.
I'm glad I had the foresight to get one many years ago - the whole kit. This was a former German police gun from Neidersachen, and is in excellent condition. Could not afford one today.
John
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BLACKHAWKNJ
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The S&W M-53 Jet is what I call a Great Idea That Didn't Work. Chambering
high pressure tapered rounds in revolvers sounds great in theory, but the ones that were chambered in the past-32-20, 38-40, 44-40 were low pressure rounds that did not create case setback.
The rotating barrel pistol is another, there was the Obregon in Mexico, the Beretta Cougar is still in production but gets little press.
Again, I like to think of design features that were an instrinsic part of the design, but were quickly surpassed by simpler designs that were easier to manufacture, disassemble, more user friendly.
high pressure tapered rounds in revolvers sounds great in theory, but the ones that were chambered in the past-32-20, 38-40, 44-40 were low pressure rounds that did not create case setback.
The rotating barrel pistol is another, there was the Obregon in Mexico, the Beretta Cougar is still in production but gets little press.
Again, I like to think of design features that were an instrinsic part of the design, but were quickly surpassed by simpler designs that were easier to manufacture, disassemble, more user friendly.
Many today consider the Whitney Wolverine a grail gun. I wrote it up in my book 101 Classic Firearms. Its history is a tale of woe and is worth reading. This one is mine, from May, 1956.
John
LVSteve
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Maybe having the safety on the back is handy when holstering the gun. It is an oddity, for sure, and I still need to shoot the one I bought during COVID.
Funny you should mention rotating barrel pistols. The Grand Power series could be considered a dead end design because of the horrible takedown/reassembly and their sensitivity to dirt (according to a test on Youtube). That said, I think they are great. They have excellent triggers, and are so smooth to shoot with minimal recoil.
LVSteve
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The Browning Hi Power has that in spades as it was the first high capacity semi auto pistol and spawned countless pistols using a double stack magazine. That double column single feed magazine is still state of the art.
Similarly, the Browning linkless delayed recoil locking system is also widely copied and is still found in “modern” pistols. The S&W system is itself a variation on the design.
In terms of the gun itself, the Hi Power was only recently dropped by Browning and is still in production by at least three other companies, so it hasn’t been a dead end even from a configuration perspective.
LVSteve is correct that some shooters with meaty hands who also try to use a modern high grip with it my get bit by the hammer, but those same shooters are also not gripping it as it was designed to be gripped. That could be argued as a “dead end” but it can also be addressed with a slight reshaping of the hammer and or the tang.
So I’m not hating on LVSteve for suggesting the Hi Power as a dead end design, but I am thinking of starting a prayer chain for him as he’s obviously suffered a stroke or head injury in the last couple days.
No head injuries involved, I'm afraid. Maybe I'm just "that guy", but I never bought into the Hi Power mystique from the first time I touched one or got to shoot one. I find the original grips clunky, the BDM is vastly superior it terms of ergos for me, even though it does not look that different. Should have snagged the one I was offered years ago, they are stupid money these days.
Those that complain the HP was made too small so it cannot take 45 ACP make me smile. It's like complaining that Toyota don't have a V8 option on the Corolla.
Of course, you are quite correct in that the HP pioneered the double stack magazine in a handgun and the linkless barrel operation. Both have reappeared in numerous forms ever since, although success can be mixed. I'm looking at you Remington RP9.
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The Colt 2000. A design that put the last nail in the coffin for Colt.
DWalt
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The late versions of the 2000 weren’t too bad as the worst problems had been resolved. But by then, the damage to its reputation had already been done, and there were no customers. One of the few handgun designs having a rotating barrel lockup. Colt was just too hasty in bringing it out before it was ready for prime time. But Colt had other more serious problems then.
Around ten years ago I found one LNIB in a small West Texas pawnshop for $400. I should have bought it.
Yep. I worked with a drummer that had one. He let me give it a test drive.
That was enough.
Benelli B-76. Fixed barrel design with a separate bolt that used a toggle link. I've always wanted one. I've seen exactly one in the wild.
Honorably mention to the Remington R51. Yes, the first gens were a train wreck but the second gen guns actually work. I have one and am perfectly satisfied with it.
Had an H&K P7 eons ago. It was neat. Heavy for a single stack. Worked extremely well, but would heat up if you were doing mag dumps. Never understood why it cost so much. The mechanism isn't all that complex. Sold mine for a tidy profit and never looked back.
Honorably mention to the Remington R51. Yes, the first gens were a train wreck but the second gen guns actually work. I have one and am perfectly satisfied with it.
Had an H&K P7 eons ago. It was neat. Heavy for a single stack. Worked extremely well, but would heat up if you were doing mag dumps. Never understood why it cost so much. The mechanism isn't all that complex. Sold mine for a tidy profit and never looked back.
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