Dealey Plaza

redlevel

redlevel

Silver Supporter
Joined
Jan 23, 2004
Messages
5,717
Reaction score
12,979
Location
GA
Visited there today. Did the Sixth Floor tour. A very eerie feeling looking out that window, down that street. The thing that amazed me about the whole place is the small dimensions. Looking at newsreels, still pictures, etc. doesn't convey the compactness of the area where everything took place. There is no doubt in my mind that Oswald could have made those shots. So could have thousands of deer hunters who cut their teeth on old milsurp rifles like Enfields, Mausers of various types, etc. Too much is made, I think, of the fact that the rifle he used wasn't exactly renowned for precision shooting. The first shot was about 60 yards, and the last one at about 100 yards.

Of course, the shots would have been even easier from "The Grassy Knoll." I don't believe in any of the conspiracy theories, though.

I'm glad I got the opportunity to visit that area. Interesting for an old History teacher.
 
Register to hide this ad
Mrs. rl at the Grassy Knoll. Who's that behind the fence?
6a4unu6u.jpg
 
I remember those Klein's ads which usually were the entire back cover of a gun magazine. They had some really cheap rifles and ammo. They never had anything that I wanted.
 
I was about 10 years old when this happened. Since then I have read everything I could find on it. Was able to visit Dealy Plaza about 12 years ago and the first thing that popped into my head was how small the area really is. Like you, I watched all the news reels and looked at photos of the area and thought the area was huge. Was stunned at how small it is.
 
redlevel said:
Too much is made, I think, of the fact that the rifle he used wasn't exactly renowned for precision shooting.
Click to expand...

... when used with undersized American made ammo. There is nothing wrong with the accuracy of the Carcano with the proper ammunition, which Oswald used IIRC.

Much overlooked are the relatively small size and weight of the Carcano Short Rifle and the light recoil of the 6.5 round, both big factors in shooting one rapidly IMHO. Most of those folk who tell you that you cannot shoot a military bolt action that quickly because of recoil and recovery time have never even held a Carcano, let alone shot one. All they know are a the Garand, M14, 1903 and various Remchester rifles.
 
redlevel said:
Visited there today. Did the Sixth Floor tour. A very eerie feeling looking out that window, down that street. The thing that amazed me about the whole place is the small dimensions. Looking at newsreels, still pictures, etc. doesn't convey the compactness of the area where everything took place. There is no doubt in my mind that Oswald could have made those shots. So could have thousands of deer hunters who cut their teeth on old milsurp rifles like Enfields, Mausers of various types, etc. Too much is made, I think, of the fact that the rifle he used wasn't exactly renowned for precision shooting. The first shot was about 60 yards, and the last one at about 100 yards.

Of course, the shots would have been even easier from "The Grassy Knoll." I don't believe in any of the conspiracy theories, though.

I'm glad I got the opportunity to visit that area. Interesting for an old History teacher.
Click to expand...

Glad to hear you got to see this giant piece of history but I believe you're in the minority if you believe Oswald was a lone shooter that day.
 
PA Reb said:
Glad to hear you got to see this giant piece of history but I believe you're in the minority if you believe Oswald was a lone shooter that day.
Click to expand...

I expect that what you said is true. There a lot of people that do not believe that folks landed on the moon or that a very large multi-engine passenger jet plane crashed into the Pentagon.
 
It's nice short walk to the West End from there, nice shopping and eats. If you can, go up to Oklahoma City and visit the National Memorial there. Very emotional vibes there. Of course, there's hundreds of interesting places in the Metroplex.
 
What always bothered me is there are way better windows that he should have used for a better shot. Why would he pick what I would consider the worst vantage point to shoot? Not to mention that window was glassed in so nobody could look out and see what a lousy shot it really was.
It's been some years since I was there but many of the sites still look the same as that day. I was able to walk down the ramp in the Police garage and stand on the loading dock, visited the house where the photo of Oswald holding the rifle and paper was taken, still looks the same and the spot where the Dallas officer was shot and finally the Texas Theater, just soaking up the history of the day. And finally I agree with RFK, organized crime had the most to gain by this and it's so obvious it's unbelievable and that's the beauty of the conspiracy, that it is so obvious nobody believes it. I'm pretty sure Bobby knew things we will never know about what really happened and likely why he ended up the same way. Another lone nut, hmmmm.
 
If you get a chance read the book Mortal Error by Bonar Menninger. This was highly publicized on the 50th anniversary of Kennedy's assassination. I never believed the conspiracy theories but always believed there was more to the story that never came out.
I believe this book answers it. ;)





'How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?'
Sherlock Holmes
 
Once in awhile the simple explanation is the truth.

"Conspiracy", in the case of both Kennedys I think it's more likely "Karma".
 
While I was attending a FBI taught Police Sniper Class the subject of this shooting came up. One student had brought a Carcano rifle exactly like Oswald's. The shot distances were set up and a table rest approximated. Even though most of us had never fired a Carcano Carbine before, none of us had any problem in duplicating the accuracy and timing of Oswald. ................. Big Cholla
 
No doubt it's been proved the shots are doable but that doesn't prove Oswald was the shooter. It proves he could have been the shooter. What was his motive? What did he stand to gain by doing this? If it was notoriety why did he run? I think the only thing that is absolutely certain is we don't really know what happened or why or even how.
 
Comrad said:
No doubt it's been proved the shots are doable but that doesn't prove Oswald was the shooter. It proves he could have been the shooter.
Click to expand...

I thought it was pretty well factually proven that Oswald was in that window, with that rifle, and fired at least three shots. Yes? No? No one else is anywhere near being proven to be in the area with a rifle, have they?

Occam's Razor, anyone?

After looking at the site, I believe he intended to shoot from that corner window as the limo was headed straight at him, before it made the turn directly under him, and for some reason he didn't take that shot. Maybe he expected JFK to be in the front seat. If there was a shooter on the Knoll, where Oswald actually took the shots would have been perfect for a crossfire. No one can present anything firm and tangible to support such a scenario. Plenty of theories, and some are right plausible, but nothing concrete. I believe it is possible, but until someone presents some hard evidence, something a real DA felt he/she could take and get a conviction, I remain unconvinced.
 
I have read quite a bit and watched the hours of History Channels series on various conspiracy theories .To anyone interested I recommend that you read with an open mind "The Man Who Killed Kennedy..The Case Against LBJ " By Roger Stone.If you do so it will be hard to hold on to the idea of Oswald being the lone assassin anymore than believing Timothy Mc Vey and Nichols were the lone OKC Bombers.
 
redlevel said:
I thought it was pretty well factually proven that Oswald was in that window, with that rifle, and fired at least three shots. Yes? No? No one else is anywhere near being proven to be in the area with a rifle, have they?

Occam's Razor, anyone?

After looking at the site, I believe he intended to shoot from that corner window as the limo was headed straight at him, before it made the turn directly under him, and for some reason he didn't take that shot. Maybe he expected JFK to be in the front seat. If there was a shooter on the Knoll, where Oswald actually took the shots would have been perfect for a crossfire. No one can present anything firm and tangible to support such a scenario. Plenty of theories, and some are right plausible, but nothing concrete. I believe it is possible, but until someone presents some hard evidence, something a real DA felt he/she could take and get a conviction, I remain unconvinced.
Click to expand...

Placing Oswald in that window or in that room alone has never been proven with "hard evidence" either my friend. For one, his rifle with the hand print on it may have been planted. Why didn't whoever may have been in that window take the best afforded shot like before the limo took a left hand turn in front of that building? That would have given the shooter a full frontal view in the cross hairs. In my estimation, the shooting took place where it did because the president was lured into a triangulation of fire scenario with no possible chance of escape. Only professionals could come up with that scheme and not the patsy Oswald. Then you get into the blotched medical evidence with skull x-rays immediately afterwards being faked after the D.C. autopsy. It goes on, and on, and on .......................!
 
Then there's that missed shot that hit the curb. Who fired that one?
Not saying he did or didn't just keeping an open mind since nothing was ever proved beyond a reasonable doubt.

One thing I am convinced of is on that day America experienced a coup d'etat.
 
Comrad said:
Then there's that missed shot that hit the curb. Who fired that one?
Not saying he did or didn't just keeping an open mind since nothing was ever proved beyond a reasonable doubt.

One thing I am convinced of is on that day America experienced a coup d'etat.
Click to expand...

Amen on that one sir! And beyond that, you hit the nail on the head when you said "nothing was ever proved beyond a reasonable doubt." Oswald, as far as I know, was the only man ever charged and then found guilty without a trial. I always felt it a tragedy that when his name is mentioned, most people immediately respond with he's the man that killed J.F. Kennedy. I'm not saying that I like the guy or that he didn't play a role in all that but to me he is the classic definition of a "fall guy." The confusion and doubt created afterwards allowed the professionals that were behind it escape justice. Confusion to the point that if someone gave a dying confession tomorrow that he was involved, people wouldn't believe him!
 
PA Reb said:
Oswald, as far as I know, was the only man ever charged and then found guilty without a trial. I always felt it a tragedy that when his name is mentioned, most people immediately respond with he's the man that killed J.F. Kennedy
Click to expand...


I wonder, then, why he felt the need to shoot and kill Officer J.D. Tippett at the movie theater. Why do you suppose an "innocent" man would gun down a police officer to make his escape?
 
Last edited:
When you get a chance to visit the library and Dealy Plaza and know the trees lining the street were not there at the time. Then seeing the Zapruder film frame by frame and having been eleven years old at a small school in La. at the time, I'm completely out of all the conspiracy theories. A few months ago I read a book called "Killing Kennedy" and it answered some questions about how Oswald had just happened to get a job at the book depository a few weeks before the shooting. Anyway, those who have not been to the museum book depository, should if possible and see for them selves.
 
lonejacklarry said:
I wonder, then, why he felt the need to shoot and kill Officer J.D. Tippett at the movie theater. Why do you suppose an "innocent" man would gun down a police officer to make his escape?
Click to expand...

Did he? That, in truth, is another incident that was never proven. In fact, the descriptions of the shooter given by several people don't match that of Oswald (many believe Oswald was told to be in that theater and the shooting of the officer was bait for responding officers). If one takes the time to research the true story instead of the lies told to the public, it all starts to become crystal clear. This whole killing and capture scenario doesn't hold water if one looks into all the details leading up to it. I'll say it again, Oswald, who was probably not completely innocent that November day, was as he described himself, a patsy.

Answer me this - "If Oswald was at the sniper's nest on the sixth floor at the time of the shooting, then how is it he was seen by the building manager and a pistol-waving police officer less than 90 seconds afterwards on the second floor, standing in the lunchroom with a Coke in his hand, giving every appearance of being perfectly calm and relaxed?"

I'm not trying to be argumentative in any way - I just love to discuss this topic and have done so many times with many groups. I have a large library full of books on this topic some of which are pro Warren Commission, some are full of factual evidence, and some are of wild conspiracy stories. I'll say this to the day they plant me in the ground - The professionals that carried this act out created a tangle of lies that it is now impossible to figure it out. Not only did they pull the assassination off, they pulled off the post shooting coverup off by the simple use of confusion.

I think that I am now guilty big time of hijacking the OP's thread. Maybe, if enough people are interested, we could start a friendly discussion in a separate thread? That would be really neat I think.

 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

biku324
It's About Time
Replies
16
Views
1K
biku324
biku324
Grimjaws
Recent events have forced me to change direction on my EDC
2 3 4
Replies
104
Views
7K
Rocketmedic40
R
olfart
Yet Another Tale from the East Texas Outback
Replies
12
Views
769
olfart
olfart
P
Bodyguard 2.0 shooting left - LCP Max sights fit!
2
Replies
36
Views
11K
halfmoonclip
H
cmansguns
Spotting scope recommendations from real users!
2
Replies
45
Views
8K
rwsmith
rwsmith

Latest posts

Back
Top