Dealey Plaza

[PA Reb]

I thought it was pretty well factually proven that Oswald was in that window, with that rifle, and fired at least three shots. Yes? No? No one else is anywhere near being proven to be in the area with a rifle, have they?

Occam's Razor, anyone?

After looking at the site, I believe he intended to shoot from that corner window as the limo was headed straight at him, before it made the turn directly under him, and for some reason he didn't take that shot. Maybe he expected JFK to be in the front seat. If there was a shooter on the Knoll, where Oswald actually took the shots would have been perfect for a crossfire. No one can present anything firm and tangible to support such a scenario. Plenty of theories, and some are right plausible, but nothing concrete. I believe it is possible, but until someone presents some hard evidence, something a real DA felt he/she could take and get a conviction, I remain unconvinced.

Placing Oswald in that window or in that room alone has never been proven with "hard evidence" either my friend. For one, his rifle with the hand print on it may have been planted. Why didn't whoever may have been in that window take the best afforded shot like before the limo took a left hand turn in front of that building? That would have given the shooter a full frontal view in the cross hairs. In my estimation, the shooting took place where it did because the president was lured into a triangulation of fire scenario with no possible chance of escape. Only professionals could come up with that scheme and not the patsy Oswald. Then you get into the blotched medical evidence with skull x-rays immediately afterwards being faked after the D.C. autopsy. It goes on, and on, and on .......................!

 

[Comrad]

Then there's that missed shot that hit the curb. Who fired that one?
Not saying he did or didn't just keeping an open mind since nothing was ever proved beyond a reasonable doubt.

One thing I am convinced of is on that day America experienced a coup d'etat.

 

[vonn]

The only thing I know about the assassination is that Kennedy must have made somebody really mad at him and that Anna Nicole married for love.

 

[Mydogmax]

The correct answer is...we'll never know.

 

[PA Reb]

Then there's that missed shot that hit the curb. Who fired that one?
Not saying he did or didn't just keeping an open mind since nothing was ever proved beyond a reasonable doubt.

One thing I am convinced of is on that day America experienced a coup d'etat.

Amen on that one sir! And beyond that, you hit the nail on the head when you said "nothing was ever proved beyond a reasonable doubt." Oswald, as far as I know, was the only man ever charged and then found guilty without a trial. I always felt it a tragedy that when his name is mentioned, most people immediately respond with he's the man that killed J.F. Kennedy. I'm not saying that I like the guy or that he didn't play a role in all that but to me he is the classic definition of a "fall guy." The confusion and doubt created afterwards allowed the professionals that were behind it escape justice. Confusion to the point that if someone gave a dying confession tomorrow that he was involved, people wouldn't believe him!

 

[ChuckS1]

I watched all the conspiracy shows last fall. I still think Oswald was the lone shooter.

 

[lonejacklarry]

Oswald, as far as I know, was the only man ever charged and then found guilty without a trial. I always felt it a tragedy that when his name is mentioned, most people immediately respond with he's the man that killed J.F. Kennedy

I wonder, then, why he felt the need to shoot and kill Officer J.D. Tippett at the movie theater. Why do you suppose an "innocent" man would gun down a police officer to make his escape?

 

[Step N. Mud]

When you get a chance to visit the library and Dealy Plaza and know the trees lining the street were not there at the time. Then seeing the Zapruder film frame by frame and having been eleven years old at a small school in La. at the time, I'm completely out of all the conspiracy theories. A few months ago I read a book called "Killing Kennedy" and it answered some questions about how Oswald had just happened to get a job at the book depository a few weeks before the shooting. Anyway, those who have not been to the museum book depository, should if possible and see for them selves.

 

[PA Reb]

I wonder, then, why he felt the need to shoot and kill Officer J.D. Tippett at the movie theater. Why do you suppose an "innocent" man would gun down a police officer to make his escape?

Did he? That, in truth, is another incident that was never proven. In fact, the descriptions of the shooter given by several people don't match that of Oswald (many believe Oswald was told to be in that theater and the shooting of the officer was bait for responding officers). If one takes the time to research the true story instead of the lies told to the public, it all starts to become crystal clear. This whole killing and capture scenario doesn't hold water if one looks into all the details leading up to it. I'll say it again, Oswald, who was probably not completely innocent that November day, was as he described himself, a patsy.

Answer me this - "If Oswald was at the sniper's nest on the sixth floor at the time of the shooting, then how is it he was seen by the building manager and a pistol-waving police officer less than 90 seconds afterwards on the second floor, standing in the lunchroom with a Coke in his hand, giving every appearance of being perfectly calm and relaxed?"

I'm not trying to be argumentative in any way - I just love to discuss this topic and have done so many times with many groups. I have a large library full of books on this topic some of which are pro Warren Commission, some are full of factual evidence, and some are of wild conspiracy stories. I'll say this to the day they plant me in the ground - The professionals that carried this act out created a tangle of lies that it is now impossible to figure it out. Not only did they pull the assassination off, they pulled off the post shooting coverup off by the simple use of confusion.

I think that I am now guilty big time of hijacking the OP's thread. Maybe, if enough people are interested, we could start a friendly discussion in a separate thread? That would be really neat I think.

 

[Jinglebob]

Mrs. rl at the Grassy Knoll. Who's that behind the fence?

Who's the guy behind the fence? It's Jimmy Hoffa.

 

[redlevel]

I think that I am now guilty big time of hijacking the OP's thread. Maybe, if enough people are interested, we could start a friendly discussion in a separate thread? That would be really neat I think.

No sir, no hijack at all. I love the discussion. Even though I disagree with you. it is a civil, reasonable discussion, and you make valid points.

Keep it up!

Here is a blog, or article I found, with some pretty good pictures. One thought offered by the blogger is that he is convinced that Oswald could have easily made the shots by himself (I agree), but that if he indeed have help, the Grassy Knoll was the perfect spot. I agree with that analysis, too.
My visit to JFK's assassination site | TERRY MOORE

 

[BLACKHAWKNJ]

John Wilkes Booth was convicted without a trial, his co-conspirators were rounded up pretty quickly. IMHO there was a conspiracy but involved very few individuals and they did a good job of covering their tracks and keeping silent.

 

[Warren Sear]

I worked in Dallas TX last week and had time to visit Dealey plaza. The area of Dealey plaza is small and very ordinary looking.

My first impression was how easy it would be to make those three shots. The distance at the last shot was only about 80 yards by my estimation, from a window six stories up.

My second impression was how such a small, unremarkable and nondescript area as this, and how a seemingly-insignificant loser like Oswald could have so seriously affected US and world history.

There was a witness who was standing directly in front of the window from which Oswald fired. He gave an accurate description, and the police sent out an APB immediately.

I have read pretty much all the conspiracy theories, and none have convinced me of their veracity. This happened 50 years ago, and in all that time no conspirator ever came forward (on his death bed or otherwise) with any credible evidence to make me believe there was anyone besides Oswald involved. There is an old saying that goes, "If you have an open mind be careful that it does not get opened so far your brains fall out".

Dealey plaza is now a historical landmark, and is preserved. Everything has stayed the same as it was except for a very few small details, and there are plans to restore these to how they looked in 1963. The city of Dallas has grown up around the area, but the plaza remains as it was, and looks out of place. I think trees were there in 1963, but I don't know if the trees there now were there at the time of the murder.

 

[LVSteve]

My second impression was how such a small, unremarkable and nondescript area as this, and how a seemingly-insignificant loser like Oswald could have so seriously affected US and world history.

You've hit the nail on the head as to why the conspiracy theories will not die. Folk just cannot accept the ordinariness of the location and the players, excluding the President and First Lady, of course.

 

[Checkpoint Charlie]

I was in elementary school when JFK was assassinated; have read tons of stuff over the years on the subject. I'm currently reading "A Cruel and Shocking Act", by Philip Shenon, published last year. Not a conspiracy theory book, but tells the story of the Warren Commission, as told by some of the young lawyers who did investigative work for the commission and are still alive. I give it 2 thumbs up.
One of the more intriguing characters to me in some conspiracy theories is a man named David Sanchez Morales. Worked for the CIA and had a "colorful" career. Google him and you'll see what I mean. At least one credible witness stated that he was at the hotel in LA the night Bobby Kennedy was killed.
Anyway, great discussion. A trip to Dealey Plaza is on my bucket list.


"Fast is fine, but accuracy is everything." ---- Wyatt Earp

 

[7shooter]

A friend ( now deceased ) who was a former deputy sheriff told me about a scenario that was set up at the annual Second Chance event. He said they had a Carcano rifle and had a pulley system set up that would move a target at approximately the same angle and speed as Kennedy's limo. He said it was easy for almost everyone who tried it to make the shots. He also said that Oswald was left handed and that he was known to have practiced speedily working the bolt on his rifle.

Has anyone else heard this story about Second Chance ? I think I got the details right as he told them but he's not around to ask.

 

[Gyrene6891]

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind OJ did it...

 

[smokindog]

I agree with those that say we'll never really know. I was in second grade and what follow in the 60's was certainly not a shining moment for the Country. I find it hard to believe one person planned and pulled it off but ...

If not directly complicit, I believe the mob, political foes, and others were probably involved, at least by turning a blind eye and/or making success easier.

However, in the words of the great and powerful, "what difference does it make"!!!!!

 

[Whitens Moss]

Check out "The Third Bullet," by Stephen Hunter. A Bob Lee Swagger novel that strikes of plausibility. A good read and fascinating theory if nothing else. Theme: shots were not fired from the TBD but from across the street from another building.

 

[reddogge]

I was there at Dealy Plaza years ago and the shots were easy for a skilled rifleman. As far as timing goes, the clock goes on when the FIRST shot was fired leaving the balance of the time for only two aimed shots. Again an easy task for a skilled rifleman.

I've read all the stuff and watched all the shows on TV and I do believe it was one man, Oswald, who did the shooting. Now who he may have been in cahoots with, I don't know.