Deciding on an S&W AR

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Whitwabit

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I thought my home defense pistols would be enough !! Those thoughts have since changed and I find myself looking at AR's when I go into a gun store lately .. did today again ..

Only interested in these two models for my own reasons so please don't tell me I should buy so and so .. or I need to build my own .. I am not interested in what you have to say if you do .. I'm asking specifically about these two models !!

The two models I am interested in are the S&W AR15 Model 311041LE S&W M&P15T 16" Magpul Tactical and S&W AR15 Model 311001LE S&W M&P15T Troy Tactical ..

They both look to be the same AR except one has MagPul and the other Troy parts on them .. the MagPul even has a Troy forend on it same as the Troy Tactical has .. but the basic AR sees to be the same gun to me ..

Am I correct or are there differences because of my lack of knowledge I am not aware of ?? All the specs seem to be identical .. except for the sights maybe ..

Which one would you buy over the other ??
 
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S&W has different SKU for LE dealer rifles and civilian rifles. From my understanding, the LE rifle is no different from the civilian rifle, just different SKU and different price point/discounts. With that said, those rifles that you have listed appear to not be in production any longer... the 15T rifles with Troy hand guards have been gone from the civilian catalog for several years now.

So, since you are only interested in those two rifles, not sure how we can help you. I think you are correct in the differences being one had S&W branded Troy BUIS, and the other has Magpul. Without spec sheets though, just guessing from pictures.

So, if you were interested in the newer model, it would be the M&P 15T Tactical with M-Lok...
M&P(R)15T Tactical with M-LOK(R) | Smith & Wesson
 
Really like the M-LOK handgaurd S&W fitted to the new 15T, nice and slim, and good looking to boot. Anyone know if you can buy the handguard on its own?
 
cyphertext said:
S&W has different SKU for LE dealer rifles and civilian rifles. From my understanding, the LE rifle is no different from the civilian rifle, just different SKU and different price point/discounts. With that said, those rifles that you have listed appear to not be in production any longer... the 15T rifles with Troy hand guards have been gone from the civilian catalog for several years now.

So, since you are only interested in those two rifles, not sure how we can help you. I think you are correct in the differences being one had S&W branded Troy BUIS, and the other has Magpul. Without spec sheets though, just guessing from pictures.

So, if you were interested in the newer model, it would be the M&P 15T Tactical with M-Lok...
M&P(R)15T Tactical with M-LOK(R) | Smith & Wesson
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info !!

The spec sheets on both were Identical from what I could see the only difference was the sights .. so your saying both of these are older models?? That curious because they are on buds web sight ..

specs :

Model: M&P15 Caliber: 5.56 mm NATO / .223 Action: Gas Operated Semi Automatic Capacity: (1) 30 Round magazine Overall Length: 35" Extended / 32" Compacted Stock: 6-Position Telescopic Forend: 4-Sided, 10" Free-Float Modular Rail Forend (MRF) Sight Length: 15" Barrel Length: 16" Barrel Twist: 1 in 9" Weight (No Mag): 6.85 lbs. Trigger Pull: 7 lbs. (approx.) Upper/Lower Material: 7075 T6 Aluminum Barrel Material: 4140 Steel Chromed Components: Barrel Bore, Gas Key, Bolt Carrier Receiver and Barrel Finish: Hard Coat Black Anodized Front Sight: Adjustable, Folding Battle Sight Rear Sight: Adjustable, Folding Battle Sight - See more at: S&W M&P15T Troy Tactical 5.56NATO $0.00 SHIPS FREE

both are now being offered by Bud's
 
I just noticed most of the new AR15s have a 1 in 8 barrel twist while these are 1 in 9 twist ..

What are the differences for this ?? does the 1 in 8 shoot lighter grain bullets in a tighter group ??
 
cyphertext thanks for the info .. appreciate you looking it up !

I do wonder why Bud's has them in their catalog if they are a couple of years old .. or wonder if they bought some old stock out of a warehouse some where is that possible .. or would Bud's still have stock that is that old ??

I would think all of these would have been sold by now if they are 2 years or older ..
 
Whitwabit said:
I just noticed most of the new AR15s have a 1 in 8 barrel twist while these are 1 in 9 twist ..

What are the differences for this ?? does the 1 in 8 shoot lighter grain bullets in a tighter group ??
Click to expand...

No, the 1:8 twist allows you to shoot heavier bullets, 75 gr and up that may not stabilize in a 1:9 twist barrel. The 1:8 twist barrels are also salt nitrate treated barrels, where the 1:9 were chrome lined.

Here is another one for you to consider...
14.5" barrel with a fixed flash hider to bring it to 16"
1:7 twist, 4150 steel, chrome lined
Troy hand guard on this one too...

M&P(R)15 TS | Smith & Wesson
 
Whitwabit said:
cyphertext thanks for the info .. appreciate you looking it up !

I do wonder why Bud's has them in their catalog if they are a couple of years old .. or wonder if they bought some old stock out of a warehouse some where is that possible .. or would Bud's still have stock that is that old ??

I would think all of these would have been sold by now if they are 2 years or older ..
Click to expand...

They could be new old stock, or perhaps S&W had parts so they produced them under the LE catalog, maybe contract over run? Hard to say. If you like those and the price is agreeable, no reason to not get one, but the M-Lok or Keymod hand guards are all the rage now.
 
Whitwabit said:
I just noticed most of the new AR15s have a 1 in 8 barrel twist while these are 1 in 9 twist ..

What are the differences for this ?? does the 1 in 8 shoot lighter grain bullets in a tighter group ??
Click to expand...
Generally speaking the lower the twist rate the more variety of weight you can shoot. This DOES NOT mean you can't shoot 75gr in a 1/9. It only means that the higher twist rate is better at stabilizing the lower weight bullet. How much better depends on the bullet, the rifle and you. Typically it's not a big difference unless you are trying to win a competition. 75gr will not be as accurate as a 55gr in a 1/9 barrel. It will still put rounds where you aim, just not as accurate. Usually that difference will need to be measured to be seen. There might be an occasional flyer

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
 
Arik said:
Generally speaking the lower the twist rate the more variety of weight you can shoot. This DOES NOT mean you can't shoot 75gr in a 1/9. It only means that the higher twist rate is better at stabilizing the lower weight bullet. How much better depends on the bullet, the rifle and you. Typically it's not a big difference unless you are trying to win a competition. 75gr will not be as accurate as a 55gr in a 1/9 barrel. It will still put rounds where you aim, just not as accurate. Usually that difference will need to be measured to be seen. There might be an occasional flyer

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Thanks for the explanation on the twist rates !!
 
I am looking at target practice out to 150 to 250 yards .. 250 yards is the longest range where I shoot I think .. might be 300 not sure .. they opened 2 new ranges last fall .. but would shoot somewhere near that range .. .. and might use it as a varmint hunting rifle for coyotes and maybe some ground hogs .. have had a huge population of them the last few years tearing up the farmers fields and water ways ..

We have a pack of coyotes just to my south less then a mile .. we can hear the pups at night after they come back from a hunt some times .. and if the wind is from the south they sound very close ..

I have become very reluctant to leave my GSD in the back if we leave the house with out either me or my wife at home keeping tabs on her .. 2 years ago she was in the back and a coyote had jumped the fence and was moving toward her ..only the sound of the door slamming closed when I ran out to the back saved her she was just a pup then .. the coyote was running across the field in back and I couldn't get a shot off with my Compact ..

They are become more of a problem .. Young family just moved in down the road have 2 young children .. I warned them about the coyotes and the risks of not watching the 2 smaller kids .. they have chickens so they have a draw for them approaching the house area .. think I scared the young woman some .. and that was sorta my intention ..
 
Well I'd go with either but the best advice is see if one feels better in hand than the other. I have seen where some like a certain grip style or hand guard so pick them up and see if there is a difference if not what price is better.. it's really a personal choice really...
 
For your intended uses, either one will fit the bill. Add a good scope, and you'll have the longer ranges covered. For ammo either the bulk 55 or 62 fmj's will work at the range. Critters are a different deal. There you're going to need to use a high quality 50-60gr HP varmint round. With an fmj, you run the risk of just wounding the yote, and it could be more dangerous than a healthly one.
 
If you can find one the original 15T would be my choice. Chrome lined barrel, troy hand guard ant S&W branded sights.
 
I have one of the original 15T Troy model rifles and would highly recommend it, bought mine new 10-12 years ago have
run thousands of rounds of everything from cheap steel 55gr to 77gr expensive ammo and it has run flawlessly. The longest distance I have been able to shoot is 300 meters and have had no problems ringing steel and punching holes in the paper.

Sent from my SM-T237P using Tapatalk
 
Is around 1100 a good price for the Troy Tactical ?? its suppose to have the chrome barrel bore and 1 in 9 twist, Troy 4-Sided, 10" Free-Float Modular Rail Forend .. Adjustable, Folding Battle Sight front and back ..

the Magpul Tactical is a couple hundred cheaper and has the same specs except the difference in the sights is the only difference I could find .. it has Folding Magpul (MBUS) front and back ..

I think either will suit my needs/wants .. I'm leaning toward the Magpul ..
 
Personally, I would go with the Magpul and spend the difference on ammo. Add another $100 or so and you'll be able to buy 1000 rds of bulk wolf gold.There are a couple of recent threads showing where you can get the deal on ammo. That will give you a real good start at the range.
 
I love my Mid MOE. It's been flawless, but if I were looking for one in that range, I'd have to give the new Savage Arms ARs a look. They're all 1:8 5R middies with nice furniture.

I don't know if they are readily available or bug free yet, though.
 
Whitwabit said:
Is around 1100 a good price for the Troy Tactical ?? its suppose to have the chrome barrel bore and 1 in 9 twist, Troy 4-Sided, 10" Free-Float Modular Rail Forend .. Adjustable, Folding Battle Sight front and back ..

the Magpul Tactical is a couple hundred cheaper and has the same specs except the difference in the sights is the only difference I could find .. it has Folding Magpul (MBUS) front and back ..

I think either will suit my needs/wants .. I'm leaning toward the Magpul ..
Click to expand...

The LE price on the Model 311041LE S&W M&P15T 16" Magpul Tactical at Bud's is a good price for that rifle, if that is what you want. I personally would go with the newer version that I linked above, as I like a slimmer handguard then a quad rail, as well as the mid-length gas system and the 1:8 twist with 5R rifling.

May I ask what draws you to the two particular models you are looking at?
 
cyphertext said:
The LE price on the Model 311041LE S&W M&P15T 16" Magpul Tactical at Bud's is a good price for that rifle, if that is what you want. I personally would go with the newer version that I linked above, as I like a slimmer handguard then a quad rail, as well as the mid-length gas system and the 1:8 twist with 5R rifling.

May I ask what draws you to the two particular models you are looking at?
Click to expand...

No particular draw .. Was looking at Tactical AR's by S&W .. these are just 2 S&W AR 15 tactical models I found that were considerably less in price then current models .. and these would fit my budget .. I'm not familiar enough with the AR platform to be able to build one presently .. I also considered doing that .. maybe in the future !!
 
hdwhit said:
Here's a site that explains the effect of twist rates on bullet selection.

How Barrel Twist Rate Affects Ammunition Choice
Click to expand...

I have read some articles on the twist rate and the effects on AR ammo .. and there is a lot that is contradictory ..

I see charts where the 1 to 9 twist shoots best with ammo at and below 55 grains .. then I have watched video that shows a S&W AR 15 shoot a 1.5 inch group at 100 yards with 62 grain ammo with the 1 to 9 twist .. better then one with 1 to 8 ..

So I really think a big factor is the AR being shot and the brand and weight of the ammo .. one makers 62 grain might shoot a good pattern while another's may be twice that group size ..

So is it really up to the individual AR being shot ?? and really a trial and error till you find the make and ammo that shoots best in your AR ??
 
Whitwabit said:
So is it really up to the individual AR being shot ?? and really a trial and error till you find the make and ammo that shoots best in your AR ??
Click to expand...

Bingo... every barrel is different and will like a particular ammo better than others. The guides on twist rates are just that, guides.
 
Whitwabit said:
No particular draw .. Was looking at Tactical AR's by S&W .. these are just 2 S&W AR 15 tactical models I found that were considerably less in price then current models .. and these would fit my budget .. I'm not familiar enough with the AR platform to be able to build one presently .. I also considered doing that .. maybe in the future !!
Click to expand...

The LE Magpul rifle at Bud's is about $100 less than the new M-Lok model... that's a hard price to beat. However, there are other S&W options that are even less, but they aren't "tactical" models.

So is there a set of features that you really want, or are you just looking at price?
 
cyphertext said:
The LE Magpul rifle at Bud's is about $100 less than the new M-Lok model... that's a hard price to beat. However, there are other S&W options that are even less, but they aren't "tactical" models.

So is there a set of features that you really want, or are you just looking at price?
Click to expand...

I think more price with an AR with sights mounted and something to add an optic and light to in the future .. will first shoot with the sights .. and then decide what optic I will get .. probably not till next year ..

I have a budget I set aside for my use shooting each year and for ammo so would like to keep it with in a price range .. know that there are cheaper models but by the time you set it up like the tactical models you would end up probably paying more .. also since I don't have any gun smithing tools or a place to work on it .. and would need to have someone else do any work .. there are also some physical problems that might interfere .. I have a bad back where I can't do any push/pull force ..

Now if I win the Lotto .. :)
 
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