OP
Gutpile Charlie
US Veteran
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I hear you brother!
DeHavallin crash...stupid pilot
- Thread starter Gutpile Charlie
- Start date
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I hear you brother!
feralmerril
Absent Comrade
Ok, guys. No one gets into a accident on purpose. Here is a embarassing story of mine. Crap happens and I am glad I dont have to judge others. I wouldnt tell this one for many years but since I am sure the other guy involved wont be connected I will fess up to wipeing out a piper tri-pacer about 30+ years ago.
I was a new pilot and owned the tri-pacer. I considered myself a good pilot flying the plane, but never considered I knew the red tape and rules and regulations as well as I should have.
I had a close friend that was a aviation mechanic, but NOT a pilot. He helped me a lot with the plane and loved going up with me. I think prior he might of had a lesson or two but couldnt afford to continue.
I was working tons of overtime and one day he and his son who had just got discharged from the army, came to my house, woke me up from a hour or two of sleep, (I worked graveyard), they wanted to go flying. First mistake! I was drowsey and really wouldnt have and didnt want to, but I kind of owed this guy as he had always wanted to help me with the plane for free.
We went airport hopping and one suggested we go over to a nearby strip and get a hamburger. I wasnt too familiar with the field, only haveing landed there once before. The strip was at the base of a mountain range and a notorious one for haveing a lot of shifting winds and accidents.
All three of us were big guys but I was within weight and balance as my usefull load was right at 1,000 lbs. The piper tri-pacers are a rag wing airplane, (cloth) but this one had been metalised and a real beautifull rare plane due to the mods.
I came over the mountain range, and had to corkscrew down to the strip far below. The windsock showed me to land west from east. It was very gusty and the sock was all over the place. The pattern there had a high hill on one side where you lost sight of the sock for a stretch before turning final. I came in hot. On the other end of the strip was another hill with a house on top.
I was sailing down the strip with the wind BEHIND me, a huge no-no! The wind direction had completely changed directions as I was turning base and didnt see the sock. I couldnt get contact with the runway and was really sailing!
I looked at that house on the hill and wasnt positive I had the beans to clear it at our near gross weight! there was a open field to one side of the runway that looked to be a 100 yards or so extra that I could use on runout. I finaly touched down but the plane wouldnt turn! I looked over and my buddy had his feet on the rudders and both hands on the yoke totaly fighting and blocking me! I bellered to get off it! He did, but by that time I had to turn too sharp and hooked a wing and we cartwheeled totaling the plane! Had he not blocked me on the controls I would have been embarassed, but there would have been no damage at all! We didnt get hurt, but the plane was a gonner!
Years later I worked with a woman pilot that told me she was there that day and saw us cartwheeling from the opposite end of a hanger between us!
I decided to take the heat and not tell the investigator about my buddy blocking me on the controls. At that time I was afraid the insurance might not pay off if they heard that! I dont know if they would have?
Anyway after watching the video, I wondered if that pilot had the same experiance I did, as it kind of looked like it!
I was a new pilot and owned the tri-pacer. I considered myself a good pilot flying the plane, but never considered I knew the red tape and rules and regulations as well as I should have.
I had a close friend that was a aviation mechanic, but NOT a pilot. He helped me a lot with the plane and loved going up with me. I think prior he might of had a lesson or two but couldnt afford to continue.
I was working tons of overtime and one day he and his son who had just got discharged from the army, came to my house, woke me up from a hour or two of sleep, (I worked graveyard), they wanted to go flying. First mistake! I was drowsey and really wouldnt have and didnt want to, but I kind of owed this guy as he had always wanted to help me with the plane for free.
We went airport hopping and one suggested we go over to a nearby strip and get a hamburger. I wasnt too familiar with the field, only haveing landed there once before. The strip was at the base of a mountain range and a notorious one for haveing a lot of shifting winds and accidents.
All three of us were big guys but I was within weight and balance as my usefull load was right at 1,000 lbs. The piper tri-pacers are a rag wing airplane, (cloth) but this one had been metalised and a real beautifull rare plane due to the mods.
I came over the mountain range, and had to corkscrew down to the strip far below. The windsock showed me to land west from east. It was very gusty and the sock was all over the place. The pattern there had a high hill on one side where you lost sight of the sock for a stretch before turning final. I came in hot. On the other end of the strip was another hill with a house on top.
I was sailing down the strip with the wind BEHIND me, a huge no-no! The wind direction had completely changed directions as I was turning base and didnt see the sock. I couldnt get contact with the runway and was really sailing!
I looked at that house on the hill and wasnt positive I had the beans to clear it at our near gross weight! there was a open field to one side of the runway that looked to be a 100 yards or so extra that I could use on runout. I finaly touched down but the plane wouldnt turn! I looked over and my buddy had his feet on the rudders and both hands on the yoke totaly fighting and blocking me! I bellered to get off it! He did, but by that time I had to turn too sharp and hooked a wing and we cartwheeled totaling the plane! Had he not blocked me on the controls I would have been embarassed, but there would have been no damage at all! We didnt get hurt, but the plane was a gonner!
Years later I worked with a woman pilot that told me she was there that day and saw us cartwheeling from the opposite end of a hanger between us!
I decided to take the heat and not tell the investigator about my buddy blocking me on the controls. At that time I was afraid the insurance might not pay off if they heard that! I dont know if they would have?
Anyway after watching the video, I wondered if that pilot had the same experiance I did, as it kind of looked like it!
OP
Gutpile Charlie
US Veteran
Thanks for the story FM!
Damn, don't you just hate when that happens?
Damn, don't you just hate when that happens?
feralmerril
Absent Comrade
Charlie, I had a old batchlor uncle that commited suicide. Before he did, he told me I was going to inherit some money and to go blow it, said he wished he had! This was in 1974. I had already taken flying lessons but had quit due to cost. I found that tri-pacer (a 1956) for $5,000 back then! I have a few pictures but not good ones. It was a case of me not knowing what I really had back then! I took the insurance money, added about another $1,800 and bought a 1972 7GCBC citaberia. Both have the 150 HP 0320 lycombing engine. The tri-pacer was 4 passenger, the citaberia two. Payload on the piper, 1,000 #s, only 540 #s on the citaberia. The piper ran about maybe 15 mph faster IRCR, but the citaberia takes off and lands much shorter and climbs a lot faster FPM, and is somewhat airbatic. Lots of fun! After many years in storage my citaberia is close to done being rebuilt. (long, sad story). I just renewed my physical after a lot of difficulty, and need to get a few lessons to get my bi-annual. I havent flown in 15 to 20 years! I do have about 400 hours many years ago and once flew the citaberia from california to wisconsin and back. Someone else groundlooped on its back and I havent flown since.
The plane is too small to fly another big person, and for most situations it will be just solo fun for me. But it is just the ticket for me at our 6,000 ft area. As you know lots of mountains around me are 10,000 ft! Wish me luck, and thanks!
The plane is too small to fly another big person, and for most situations it will be just solo fun for me. But it is just the ticket for me at our 6,000 ft area. As you know lots of mountains around me are 10,000 ft! Wish me luck, and thanks!
cowart
US Veteran
Also note the wind direction - it was coming from the plane's right. He was not taking off into the wind, which is normally how it should be done.
You can judge the wind speed & direction in the video from the waves, the plants in the foreground, and finally at the end, from the windsock that was directly in front of the pilot's windshield!
You can judge the wind speed & direction in the video from the waves, the plants in the foreground, and finally at the end, from the windsock that was directly in front of the pilot's windshield!
OP
Gutpile Charlie
US Veteran
FM, I've never flown a Citabria, but when I was a kid, a friend had the Piper PA-20 Pacer, the forerunner of the Tri Pacer.
It was really fun to fly...of course you know that. It was quite different from the two place plane...(J3. Super Cub, etc.). I always thought of it being "short coupled"..(short wings and short fuselage.)
I guess the craziest thing we ever did in that Pacer was to cut toliet paper. The owner was in the left seat, I was in the right. He would pull it up into a kinda half a**ed hammer head stall and I'd toss out a partially unrolled roll of toliet paper. The idea was then to turn back on it and cut it to pieces!
The owner and the plane are still in existence! He has got to be in his late eighties and he still owns the plane. Within the last ten years, I've seen the plane fly by my house on occasion.
Ok, now here's the weird part of this story.
The last time I saw my friend I asked when he had recovered his plane? He asked me why I asked. Well, I said it is still gray and red like it was back in about 1955 when I was flying with him. He then told me it still had that covering! His A&E (who has since gone on to his reward....by natural causes...just "omitted" the punch test on the fabric!
Now, it may have had Ceconite put on it, but I never thought it would last that long!
Needless to say, If I should happen to run into grandson...and he should happen to offer me a ride....for old times sake...I think I would decline!
It was really fun to fly...of course you know that. It was quite different from the two place plane...(J3. Super Cub, etc.). I always thought of it being "short coupled"..(short wings and short fuselage.)
I guess the craziest thing we ever did in that Pacer was to cut toliet paper. The owner was in the left seat, I was in the right. He would pull it up into a kinda half a**ed hammer head stall and I'd toss out a partially unrolled roll of toliet paper. The idea was then to turn back on it and cut it to pieces!
The owner and the plane are still in existence! He has got to be in his late eighties and he still owns the plane. Within the last ten years, I've seen the plane fly by my house on occasion.
Ok, now here's the weird part of this story.
The last time I saw my friend I asked when he had recovered his plane? He asked me why I asked. Well, I said it is still gray and red like it was back in about 1955 when I was flying with him. He then told me it still had that covering! His A&E (who has since gone on to his reward....by natural causes...just "omitted" the punch test on the fabric!
Now, it may have had Ceconite put on it, but I never thought it would last that long!
Needless to say, If I should happen to run into grandson...and he should happen to offer me a ride....for old times sake...I think I would decline!
feralmerril
Absent Comrade
Charlie, here is the factory info on the GCBC explorer. Same as mine. They went to metal spar wings, and I bought a set from the factory 4 years ago to be installed when rebuilt. The factory has been trying to get people with the old wooden spar wings to buy their metal spar ones. Cost me about 18K at the time! I had to as the girl tore up a wing on the ground loop. I should about recover the cost if I resell it over the old wood spar ones. Otherwise they are the same plane as the 40 year old ones. I see the engines are now rated 160 HP where mine is 150 HP. All specs are the same.
http://www.amerchampionaircraft.com/NewAircraft/Explorer/ExplorerSTD.html
http://www.amerchampionaircraft.com/NewAircraft/Explorer/ExplorerSTD.html
