Destroyed 4506 frame

cololab

cololab

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A buddy of mine picked up a 4506 up for next to nothing as it was advertised as having a cracked frame. I stripped it down for him and couldn't resist, with his permission, posting a photo of the frame.

The slide, barrel, etc. appear to be undamaged and the pistol seemed to function fine. It probably would have fired, but we have survived enough "I wonder what this would do" events in our younger years to continue down that path.

I've never seen this extent of damage on a 3rd gen steel frame gun, and I haven't a clue what caused it.
 

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cololab said:
A buddy of mine picked up a 4506 up for next to nothing as it was advertised as having a cracked frame. I stripped it down for him and couldn't resist, with his permission, posting a photo of the frame.
.
Click to expand...

Interesting.

Does the crack continue thru the opening
(slide stop opening?) and up thru the slide
rail?

How's the starboard side look?
 
I think the crack originated here and propagated with continued use/firing:
Cracked.jpg


I understand cracks developing at the frame step was a known issue with the no-dash guns which, in part, led to some of the engineering changes we saw in dash-1 guns.... ie. deletion of the frame step, narrowing of the camming lugs & feedramp on the barrel with accompanying thickening/strengthening of the frame section through this entire area.

Cheers
Bill
 
BMCM said:
I think the crack originated here and propagated with continued use/firing:
Cracked.jpg
Click to expand...

I've seen locking block 'stop' cracks
start at frame-pass thru holes.

Is that hole (above S/N markings) where
the main 'stopper' passes through the frame?

Looks like some peening on the back side of
hole, just aft of the S/N hole (sorry for
terminology, not acquainted with that pistol).
Possibly a 'non-load bearing' part that started
taking up the slack, after crack propagated?
 
Steve912 said:
Is that hole (above S/N markings) where
the main 'stopper' passes through the frame?
Click to expand...

Yup, that's where the slide stop crosspin goes through. That pin is the bearing surface the ramps/lifts the barrel into engagement with the locking lugs in the slide then brings everything to a sudden halt once lockup is achieved in battery. Impact forces on that pin as the top end runs into battery are directly transferred into the frame at a forward and down angle. Extra power recoil springs can be a contributing factor to cracks and/or peening in this area along with peening & premature wear of the locking lugs.

I'm curious to see what the other side looks like.

Cheers
Bill
 
One of my 3rd Gens had a "too loose" slide stop pin that started backing out while I was shooting it at the range. Fortunately I noticed it before it backed out too far but I wonder if one backed out too far would it stress/crack the frame at the slide stop hole on the left side?

.
 
I suspect that it was run over or something fairly heavy was dropped on it. Because the cracking appears to consist of a patter that would be produced by dropping something like a bowling ball on the frame after the slide had been removed. Lesson here is don't have your bowling ball parked on the table while cleaning your pistol.

PS; I will admit to listening to J Geils' "No Anchovies Please" not too many days ago.
 
That's not from shooting damage, it has been run over by something. If it was from shooting I would think there would be peening around the slide stop hole in the frame. The hole on this one just looks to be shattered. I have seen about a dozen cracked S & W frames on the range, plus our agency had about 40 frames crack on our 4056 Tacticals, but that was a whole 'nuther issue. Almost all of them cracked that cracked from shooting cracked in the groove where the slide rails run or around the side plate hole. For that frame to have cracks in that pattern and especially to extend in more or less a straight line across the frame cut out, Im confident it had significant external force applied to it.
 
BMCM said:
Yup, that's where the slide stop crosspin goes through. That pin is the bearing surface the ramps/lifts the barrel into engagement with the locking lugs in the slide then brings everything to a sudden halt once lockup is achieved in battery.
Click to expand...

Looks like S&W counterbored that hole (and probably fattened
up the base diameter of the slide stop pin--maybe had some
problems with them snapping off?) and the thinned portion
from 1:30 to 5:00 is *gone*.

Maybe she done got runned over (external portion of slide
stop acted as lever, and broke out thinned portion of frame),
with no casually apparent damage; pistol was fired, and
11:00 crack developed in stop hole...
 
When I said cracked in the groove where the slide rails run, I meant they cracked linearly down the race way. The hole that is cracked isn't the slide plate hole. The hole where the pin for the slide plate runs through is the furthest hole to the rear. You can see the imprint of the slide plate lightly in the rear of the frame in the photo.
 
Must be one of those guns that got shot out of the bad guy's hand like you see in the old movies and TV shows.
 
There was an incident on the west coast where an officers 4506 was struck by a 40 round fired by a miscreant who was trying to kill the officer.

The 40 struck the left side of the pistol shearing off the slide stop and left side decocker paddle. The officer was still able to return fire with his damaged 4506 and killed his attacker.

As to this 4506 I think that both groups are right. Probably shot a bunch, with a wad cutter spring instead of the proper spring. Probably hot loads and a bunch of them.

And then the damaged frame was subjected to additional external force. I have never seen any handgun frame with cracks like that from just shooting it. My 0.02 Regards 18DAI
 
Bubba the Gunsmith strikes again! :D

18DAI said:
There was an incident on the west coast where an officers 4506 was struck by a 40 round fired by a miscreant who was trying to kill the officer.

The 40 struck the left side of the pistol shearing off the slide stop and left side decocker paddle. The officer was still able to return fire with his damaged 4506 and killed his attacker.

As to this 4506 I think that both groups are right. Probably shot a bunch, with a wad cutter spring instead of the proper spring. Probably hot loads and a bunch of them.

And then the damaged frame was subjected to additional external force. I have never seen any handgun frame with cracks like that from just shooting it. My 0.02 Regards 18DAI
Click to expand...
 
Have been in failure analysis for many years, I would have to agree with the impact line of thought. The crack is way too long to have been caused by firing. A large force was placed upon the frame in the area of the rails which caused the crack.

Could it be a frame which was "destroyed" by some police department by crushing with a bulldozer and somehow escaped the melting pot?
 
From post #1...

cololab said:
The slide, barrel, etc. appear to be undamaged and the pistol seemed to function fine. It probably would have fired
Click to expand...

I don't see any obvious concavity in the picture nor any serious deformation other than some minor vertical displacement of the port side rail. This observation and the wording from the OP led me to discount impact or crushing as the cause. I have to assume if the slide were run over or crushed by some lateral force, the resulting deformation would not permit the slide to run on this frame at all. However the OP observed it appeared to function fine so I explored what could have exerted excessive upward force at the front of the rails.

I kinda view this as an entertaining mental exercise in trying to figure things out. But when it comes right down to it we're all just guessing about the cause here. Still, it would be interesting to find out just exactly what happened but I kinda doubt we'll ever know. Harpy speculating;)

Cheers
Bill
 
Personally, I'd love to see the slide stop. I'd be willing to wager that if it is distorted then I'd say it was a lot of hot loads with a light recoil spring. I'd also back that up with the appearance of the crack itself, which is linear in the same direction as the recoil impact forces.

If it was caused by pressure (shop vice, running it over, etc.) I wouldn't expect to see the crack in that area - especially with no damage to the opposite side. And I would expect that it would have to be something very heavy and without rubber tires or treads. Perhaps a multi-ton shop press?

As for momentary impact damage on the side I would expect to see a definable impact point and any cracks radiating out from there instead of linear in a single direction. And based on location, I would expect to see damage to the slide as well - although we are told the slide is in good shape.

The only thing I can say at this point is I wouldn't count on the slide, barrel and slide stop being in as good shape as a casual visual inspection would lead you to believe! This kind of damage is seldom isolated.

And that's a far as my Statics, Dynamics and Strength of Materials classes in college take me.
 
bigggbbruce said:
Somebody fired a 40 S&W and blew out the case.
Click to expand...
Not possible. A .40 S&W round in a 4506 would go PFFFFT and wouldn't get anywhere near full 35k PSI spec of the .40cal round. It must be fit in a chamber that holds it to size for the pressure to build properly. A .40cal in a .45 chamber will go "BANG" but with much less fire and fury than a .40 S&W in it's own .40cal chamber.
 
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