detective story update

mg357

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Dear s&w forum, recently i started a thread about a detective story that im writing. an fellow forum member sipowicz suggested that i flesh out the character before i chose the characters gun. so after a lot of hard work i have the character figured out his name is calvin ripley he was born and raised in Kansas and do to a birth defect that he was born with he uses a wheelchair. his mom is a high school math teacher. his father is a retired u.s. army sergeant. an on calvin's 18th birthday his dad presented him with a gun safe that contained his grandpa's old m1 carbine, his dad also included in the safe a new beretta 92f 9mm pistol and new s&w model 60 .357 magnum revolver with a 3 inch barrel. any and all comments and suggestions on my story update would be appreciated sincerely and respectfully mg357 a proud member of the s&w forum.
 
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The Army frowns on people walking away with their issued M9s, but one can purchase commercially produced models that are essentially the same.

A more conventional path to explain the wheelchair would be a wound resulting from military or LE experience. That also provides a path to explain alcoholism. All hardboiled PIs have to be heavy drinkers, it is a law.
 
Sounds like you've got Calvin's birth certificate figured out, but what makes Calvin, Calvin? Did he always want to be a detective because of an unsolved murder on his street which he found a clue to when he was a kid... but no one would listen? Past history on what makes Calvin tick will help build the character to wrap a story around.
 
If you are serious about writing, I suggest that you learn the difference between "due" and "do".

That will matter more than which gun is used.

I wish that I had a dollar for every time someone on a gun board uses "sight" for "site" or can't tell the difference between "to", "too" and "two." But most don't pretend to be writers.

As for the parents, I think a schoolteacher being married to a retired Army NCO is fairly unlikely. It probably happens, but I think I'd start over and make your character more believable. Gator had a good idea about the guy being a disabled vet, and that will get him reader sympathy. Gator has done some writing, and has a feel for such matters, BTW. And a vet might buy a Beretta like the one he carried in the military. If he was a CID agent, he'd have used a SIG P-228, known in the Army as the M-11. A medically retired CID agent might indeed become a PI. But check your state's requirements for a license!

In your previous thread, you were cautioned by one poster to write about what you know, and you clearly do not know guns well. And I doubt that you have the qualifications to write about crime.

HOWEVER...neither did Tony Hillerman or Robt. Parker work as cops or PI's and their books were VERY successful. They did know how to write plausible plots and good characters and settings. Same for John Sandford, who, like Hillerman, was a news reporter. Hillerman never knew zip about guns. He never even mentioned names or models of his protagonists' guns, although he could have easily gotten that from the Navaho Tribal Police. He probably didn't care, and may have even been mildly anti-gun!

Nevada Barr was a US Park Ranger, so she knows the guns she carried. Her books are about a fictional ranger. But Victoria Houston, who writes about a female police chief in Wisconsin just asked her local cops what they carry. (SIG P-226 in .40. But she sometimes has it in 9mm. She does discuss whether it might be replaced by a Glock, but thankfully, it wasn't.) I asked her if the recoil spring on the .40 might make it difficult for her heroine to use, but she told me that Lew is strong enough. I seriously doubt that Ms. Houston has ever retracted the slide on a SIG .40...the 9mm seems more likely. When we last spoke, the only gun the author owned was a Browning BSS shotgun. I think she hunts grouse with it. But she has taken flyfishing lessons from Joan Wulff and is a pretty good angler, so that part of her books is spot-on. Her series revolves around a chief who likes to fish with her boyfriend, a retired dentist. And Victoria knows the difference between fishing for trout and for muskies.

This may help: find a copy of, "Spiral", by David Lindsey. Read the scene where Sgt. Stuart Haydon shoots the Mexican who'd just murdered his partner. It is the best single scene of a real life type gunfight that I've read, other than one that I wrote for a book that I'm doing. (My scene is no better, just different.)

I respectfully suggest that you try to take a creative writing class or Journalism 101 at a junior college. You need better language skills, and you may get tips on commercial writing. And read some crime novels and try to get a feel for them and for spelling.

As for the guns, why not have the man use a snub S&W M-60 .38 (much more common than the three-inch version in .357) and maybe a Beretta 9mm for when he can carry the bigger gun? Or, have him use a M-66 .357, so as to have some ammo interchangibility?

You could do worse than study the late Robert B. Parker's Spenser and other series books. He eventually got the gun thing down pretty well, and his spare-but-elegant prose might inspire you.

But you MUST learn to write before you set out to produce a novel.

BTW, change the hero's name. Unless the guy is from the rural South, maybe Appalachia, Calvin is a name for a cartoon character.

T-Star
 
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Hang in there mg357. I think we all can agree that I hold the prize for being the worst speller here. Just use a spell checker before you send your manuscript in. I havent figured that one out yet myself but if I was to write for money I would.
Some of us write fact, not fiction. Why not start writeing about your own experiances? My dad kept a diary for many years and I did too for about 20 years. I dont now but should. What I do is contribute here as I read others experiances or questions. It jars my memory of past events or experiances in my life or maybe other peoples experiances that I was with at the time. Try to write just about yourself, what you have been through, how it effected you etc. The biggest differance between fiction and fact usualy is far out heroic`s and usualy happy endings. Life isnt often that way. It`s like watching a hollywood movie about something you have studied. Usualy the writers change the story and it seems the truth would have been as entertaining, if not more entertaining than the movie version. I quit reading fiction when I grew up. Of course you cant get away from it with movies and TV.
Just lately I started copying many of my posts here and putting them on a document page on the computer. I think I am doing it moreso for my grandkids and great, great grandchildren can have a accurate insight to the type person I was if they are currious enough to care to dig 50 years from now. Think about it. We all here talk about leaveing our guns to our family to remember us. How about a running history that is fact?
Now if we are writeing for money, I guess my advice doesnt apply.
 
Anyone who has read a British mystery or spy novel knows technical accuracy regarding firearms is not a prerequisite to getting published. I read a story this past weekend that was pretty good once you got past the main character carrying a "Garand M1 carbine" and jumping on the running boards of jeeps. Figure out a good story line and you can flesh out the details latter.

Even Louis Lamour made firearms errors.
 
Way back I got involved in a book untill the writer had deer gathering acorns for the winter. I really enjoyed the book up untill that! I think that is when I quit reading fiction.
 
........I wish that I had a dollar for every time someone on a gun board uses "sight" for "site"........

Or "Site" for "Cite" :)
The various misuses and misspellings of "through" and "threw" probably make my eyes cross the furthest, or should it be farthest?
My personal grammatical nemesis is "effect" and "affect", I've looked up the definitions dozens of times, but I'm never certain which to use. :o

Fortunately, there are proofreaders and editors to ease the burdens of creative genius, however a lot of errors still slip through and they are distracting.

I've been known to write some fairly good letters, memos, policies, technical manuals and instructions, but they've all been fact based and I fail miserably trying to paint pictures of what's in my imagination with words. It's a gift I do not have. (One of many)

SWMBO is the creative one in the family. She writes poetry, her drawings have been shown at the Ann Arbor Art Fair and photographs things from angles and locations that would never occur to me. As a consolation, for me at least, some of the photos I've taken of her artwork have been published.

As feralmerril and others have said, hang in there.
John
 
Don't get too upset with to, two, two, etcetera. That's why you should have your work proofread (professionally, or by at least three friends). My profession is words; people rely on me to get them right all the time. Not long ago, my proofreader caught me on "flower tortilla". It came up eight times.
 
My worst to date is an email I sent companywide regarding a mistake a roof painter made that got overspray on about 150 cars in our parking lot. Basically I said the company would make it right as soon as they talked to the insurance company and we apologized for any inconvenience this caused. Unfortunately what I apologized for was any incontinence this caused.
Given peoples reaction to the overspray a prophetically appropriate choice of words after all.
 
Mg357..I applaud for undertaking such a task...writing is a tough job but it can be very therapeutic, so have fun...and don't worry about the spelling and grammar too much right now...that's what second drafts are for...well, actually 3rd or 4th drafts....:)
 
Don't listen to the wannabe English teachers. An editor will fix the mistakes if you get published. What you should be concerned with is a good story that will sell. As for the weapon of choice question, think of it this way: how many cop movies or television shows have become cult classics or blockbusters where the main character carries a "special" gun? Dirty Harry had a .44 Magnum, and until he did relatively few people had ever really given one much thought. John McClane is supposed to be NYPD, right? Ever heard of anybody on the NYPD carrying a Beretta? Most script writers could care less what type of weapon a certain city issues to it's cops. The cooler the better. I suggest an 8 shot 357 Magnum.
 
One very good way to learn dialogue and characterization is to write fan fiction.

Some rights holders do not want people writing fiction about their characters, and a list of most is on FanFiction.net.

The executive writers of The Lost World told fans to have at it, but no one with the show could read the fics, lest some fan writer later claim that their writers had stolen someone else's ideas.

You need to write any series or movie characters in ,uh, character, although they can evolve some, if it's plausible. But you can add characters of your own. Some feel a need to have some characters become gay, and that is called "slash" fiction. And any other fics that change the material substantially from what was seen on the air is called Alternative Universe (AU) writing.

When I got Prof. Challenger together with Finn after Challenger's wife died (flu, London, winter of 1921) , some said that should be AU writing. But the reasons I gave why they were drawn together were completely reasonable and could have happened in real life. So, I never billed those stories as being AU. When Lord Roxton and Marguerite Krux married, and Ned and Veronica got together, those were steps already anticipated by the show's writers, who shared their potential ideas with fans after the Fourth Season was cancelled.

Some of my favorite fics took place after the expedition finally escaped the Plateau and settled in Kent, with townhomes in London. (That was George and Finn Challenger in Kent; the Roxtons of course lived in Avebury, where he was the XVIIIth Earl of Avebury. Marguerite became the Countess of Avebury upon marrying the Earl.) Challenger grew wealthy from his inventions and continued to write major scientific papers, and Finn became an adventure writer and pioneer wildlife photographer. She and Lord Roxton were the primary hunters in their group, although I had fun describing guns for all of the crew. Creating support characters and villains was also great fun. I let Marguerite discover her birth origins and meet her half siblings, and their white hunters in Kenya and their wives and the District Commisioner and others were also among my favorite new characters. Finn helped to rescue a bank clerk from slavers and hired her as her assistant, Susan Wilson.

Whichever TV show you favor (and MANY) movies has fan fiction created for it. A lot of those stories are schlock, but some are really good. If you want to try your hand, go for it. If you can write plots and new characters in Fan Fiction, you can polish your skills and try commercial writing.

As for dialogue, it is often the hardest thing for many writers to achieve. I know my characters well, so I just stand there invisibly and listen to them and see what they're doing. Then, I have that scene to record!

Good luck, but ignore those who tell you that an editor will correct sloppy spelling. Most publishing houses now expect YOU to deliver a suitable mss. They just don't have house editors now to clean up your work. And you will need to write well to even get an agent.

But writing can indeed be therapeutic and be very fulfilling. And if you get lucky, it can be financially rewarding.

T-Star
 
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As for dialogue, it is often the hardest thing for many writers to achieve. I know my characters well, so I just stand there invisibly and listen to them and see what they're doing. Then, I have that scene to record!

But if you just watch them and don't write anything, they can't do anything. :confused:
 
But if you just watch them and don't write anything, they can't do anything. :confused:


Which part of, "Then I have that scene to record" did you miss?"

By "record", I mean to write it.

An author is one of the few who can admit to hearing voices in his head and still be sane. If he can't "hear" his characters speak. he may not write them and their speech well.

I know a former college dean who has published many articles, but he can't write fiction, because he can't write good dialogue. That makes the charracter come alive and stay in character. What they say and how is a lot of who they are.

T-Star
 
Mg357..I applaud for undertaking such a task...writing is a tough job but it can be very therapeutic, so have fun...and don't worry about the spelling and grammar too much right now...that's what second drafts are for...well, actually 3rd or 4th drafts....:)

Yez,hoo carez? ;)
 
As for the parents, I think a schoolteacher being married to a retired Army NCO is fairly unlikely. It probably happens, but I think I'd start over and make your character more believable.

BTW, change the hero's name. Unless the guy is from the rural South, maybe Appalachia, Calvin is a name for a cartoon character.

T-Star

Schoolteacher actually isn't a bad choice for the mom's job. Military spouses tend to either find the most satisfaction with either being a homemaker or else having a mobile career. The relative shortage of teachers in some areas, as well as the schools run by the DoD, have made teaching an okay profession.

Work from home schemes are also popular of course - Amway, Scentsy, Avon, Mary Kay, etc - for military spouses. (I use the term spouse rather than wife since I'm a military spouse myself, lol)

Calvin is still a reasonably common name for African-Americans, at least in some parts of the country. Backstory wise someone could have named their son after a friend that was killed, saved their life, etc in the Army. Another NCO perhaps.

Dad could have retired as early as age 38, so he could have also gotten married and had his family after the Army.
 
If you are serious about writing, I suggest that you learn the difference between "due" and "do".

That will matter more than which gun is used.

I wish that I had a dollar for every time someone on a gun board uses "sight" for "site" or can't tell the difference between "to", "too" and "two." But most don't pretend to be writers.

As for the parents, I think a schoolteacher being married to a retired Army NCO is fairly unlikely. It probably happens, but I think I'd start over and make your character more believable. Gator had a good idea about the guy being a disabled vet, and that will get him reader sympathy. Gator has done some writing, and has a feel for such matters, BTW. And a vet might buy a Beretta like the one he carried in the military. If he was a CID agent, he'd have used a SIG P-228, known in the Army as the M-11. A medically retired CID agent might indeed become a PI. But check your state's requirements for a license!

In your previous thread, you were cautioned by one poster to write about what you know, and you clearly do not know guns well. And I doubt that you have the qualifications to write about crime.

HOWEVER...neither did Tony Hillerman or Robt. Parker work as cops or PI's and their books were VERY successful. They did know how to write plausible plots and good characters and settings. Same for John Sandford, who, like Hillerman, was a news reporter. Hillerman never knew zip about guns. He never even mentioned names or models of his protagonists' guns, although he could have easily gotten that from the Navaho Tribal Police. He probably didn't care, and may have even been mildly anti-gun!

Nevada Barr was a US Park Ranger, so she knows the guns she carried. Her books are about a fictional ranger. But Victoria Houston, who writes about a female police chief in Wisconsin just asked her local cops what they carry. (SIG P-226 in .40. But she sometimes has it in 9mm. She does discuss whether it might be replaced by a Glock, but thankfully, it wasn't.) I asked her if the recoil spring on the .40 might make it difficult for her heroine to use, but she told me that Lew is strong enough. I seriously doubt that Ms. Houston has ever retracted the slide on a SIG .40...the 9mm seems more likely. When we last spoke, the only gun the author owned was a Browning BSS shotgun. I think she hunts grouse with it. But she has taken flyfishing lessons from Joan Wulff and is a pretty good angler, so that part of her books is spot-on. Her series revolves around a chief who likes to fish with her boyfriend, a retired dentist. And Victoria knows the difference between fishing for trout and for muskies.

This may help: find a copy of, "Spiral", by David Lindsey. Read the scene where Sgt. Stuart Haydon shoots the Mexican who'd just murdered his partner. It is the best single scene of a real life type gunfight that I've read, other than one that I wrote for a book that I'm doing. (My scene is no better, just different.)

I respectfully suggest that you try to take a creative writing class or Journalism 101 at a junior college. You need better language skills, and you may get tips on commercial writing. And read some crime novels and try to get a feel for them and for spelling.

As for the guns, why not have the man use a snub S&W M-60 .38 (much more common than the three-inch version in .357) and maybe a Beretta 9mm for when he can carry the bigger gun? Or, have him use a M-66 .357, so as to have some ammo interchangibility?

You could do worse than study the late Robert B. Parker's Spenser and other series books. He eventually got the gun thing down pretty well, and his spare-but-elegant prose might inspire you.

But you MUST learn to write before you set out to produce a novel.

BTW, change the hero's name. Unless the guy is from the rural South, maybe Appalachia, Calvin is a name for a cartoon character.

T-Star

Easy T-Star...! It's his book and I feel that he's headed in the right direction. But then again, I'm not perfect, nor am I a professor.

rags
 
I'm not a wrighter;) and if you've read enough of my post you know that.
Some good advice given here and I wish you luck.
My humble advice goes with others that have said to write about what you know.

The guns aren't the story but just tools of the trade.(and its good to be accurate)
Your character needs an advantage.That almost always comes from being on home turf.All good PI's have good connections.

What do I know?....I'm only here to give bad guy advice.:D:D:D

Calvin sounds pretty good to me.;)
 
A few books wouldn't be a bad idea either: Strunk & White's "Elements of Style", Roget's "Thesaurus", and a college level dictionary.

I think it helps a lot to have someone else read your work and 'edit' it. But you have to be careful; your relationship has to be that you won't get bent out of shape if he says 'it stinks', nor will he if you don't follow his advice. Nevertheless, nothing beats a second sets of eyeballs reading your text.
 
Mg357..I applaud for undertaking such a task...writing is a tough job but it can be very therapeutic, so have fun...and don't worry about the spelling and grammar too much right now...that's what second drafts are for...well, actually 3rd or 4th drafts....:)

I agree. I'm pretty confident in my writing skills composing factual accounts, policies/procedures, and professional articles or opinions. I don't possess the ability to write fiction, I wish I did, and envy those who do.
If I were you I'd start writing, have fun, and see where it goes. Reread often what you've written and make improvements you see. Things often look or sound different the next day.
I think I'd just think in terms of "handgun", "rifle", and "back-up gun" and let the specifics come later. Don't bog your self down with details at this point.
Good luck! Oh yeah, one of my best friends is a white guy named "Cal" (or Calvin) and I have a nephew who is a career Air Force officer who's married to a teacher, so you may want to take what I say "with a grain of sand"!:)
 
A few books wouldn't be a bad idea either: Strunk & White's "Elements of Style", Roget's "Thesaurus", and a college level dictionary.
Oxford Complete Dictionary of the English language is the gold standard to look for. Expensive though. The full set is something like 20 large hardbacked volumes. Or you could opt for the version that printed it all in one book but in very, very small print and came with a magnifier so you could read it (yes, really). Probably available in digital format by now, but it wouldn't be the same. Own it and in a way one owns all the books ever written in English, the words are just in a different order... The second edition out now is being revised, and the third edition is expected to be approximately double the size. But it isn't going to be available for another 25 years or so...
 
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OT, but just who, how and when is the spelling of certain words or slang accepted as being okay? Todays english is far different compaired to old english as used in the king james version of the bible. So just who set themselves up to be a authority of whats right and proper through the years? It must have changed constantly for many years. At what point did that all stop? Did some guru say in say, 1815, we no longer are going to accept altering the rightous spelling of words as they are now known?
I am aware that I am considered a bad speller. Still, I am positive everyone that reads what I write can understand what I mean.
 
Gee, give the guy a break.

What a way to burst someones bubble. He was asking for some gun help not advice from a gun forum on how he should write and spell. He used a Homophone, (have fun with that) so what? It's a forum not a Pulitzer prize contest.

MG357, keep on writing what ever, however you want. The more you write the better you will get, just like anything.

JMO, but I always thought a PI should carry either a 1911 or snub 38. For some reason the carbine just doesn't fit for me, but it's your book.
 
OT, but just who, how and when is the spelling of certain words or slang accepted as being okay? Todays english is far different compaired to old english as used in the king james version of the bible. So just who set themselves up to be a authority of whats right and proper through the years? It must have changed constantly for many years. At what point did that all stop? Did some guru say in say, 1815, we no longer are going to accept altering the rightous spelling of words as they are now known?
I am aware that I am considered a bad speller. Still, I am positive everyone that reads what I write can understand what I mean.

Couldn't agree more. There's a lot of "made up" words that are now in the dictionary. I'm waiting to see "mybabydaddy" in there!:rolleyes:
 
I wouldn't bother taking a journalism class. I have been a journalist and written fiction and non-fiction (including gun prose) and think a J-class could do more harm than good.
Learning to spell is a good idea but there are other ways.

It can be bad to expect editors to fix things in your work too. I have had several editors who have fixed things that weren't broken when the manuscript was submitted.
 
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back to your qurstion

The way I see it is the "new" guns in the safe are questionable after all they were his Grandfathers.Or is it his Fathers safe with his Grandfathers carbine in it? If I were to give my son my Fathers safe ( I'am 54 and my son is 26)it would have 1911A1, M1 carbine Paratrooper (folding stock) Small enough for a guy in a wheel chair to conceal and perhaps and S&W victory model or a 10, with a 4in (102mm )barrel.If it his fathers safe the guns you listed work.

A number of other cool guns could be in that safe depending on the type of fellow his Grandfather/father is/was, anything from metals and Chinese capture pieces from the Korean war or Vietnam to illegal stuff like a full auto M-16.I am assuming the grandfather was born in the mid 1930's.

My dad was born in 1919 and served in WWII was still in the military during Korea and Vietnam, he retired from active duty in 1975 with 35 years in the Army.I was born in 1957 when Dad was 38. My son was born in 1985, I was 28.

Penmon aka Jim
 
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