Development of the Model 19 from the Model 15

[PALADIN85020]

I took the opportunity today to thoroughly compare a Model 15 to a Model 19, and observe the differences that originally turned the .38 Special "Combat Masterpiece" into the .357 "Combat Magnum Masterpiece." I'm sure there may be other hidden differences, but here are the ones that are most apparent to me in a side-by-side comparison. I thought you might find these of interest. These changes were first brought about in 1955 in response to ideas put forth by Border Patrol officer and top marksman Bill Jordan.

Take a look!

John

 

[nipster]

The model 19's were available with trigger stops, as were the model 66's.

 

[Snakeshift]

Awesome

This is why I love this forum. Great post!

 

[snw19_357]

I'd like to hear more about where and how they strengthened the frame. I have always heard and read about it but have not been able to see the differences.
Especially back in 1955, are there dimensional differences between a Combat Magnum frame (marked with a "3") and a Combat Masterpiece frame?

As far as the overtravel stop, they were standard on the Combat Magnum until at least 1979 and were shipped with Model 19's equipped with target triggers into the '90's.

 

[Black Knight]

As I understand the strengthening was done by a different heat treating method. I'm sure it is more complicated than that but that is what I remember from a magazine article from many years ago.

 

[Engine49guy]

The Model 19 frame is also slightly longer just beneath the ejector rod,
If you look closely in this picture of Models 15,14 and 19 (L to R) it is easier to see.

The marriage of the K frame to the .357 was brilliant but imagine the shock when they announced their intention adapt the J frame to .357 ,
Probably a few skeptics said it could not be done.

The Model 19 frame shape (right) is actually more like the Model 14 (center) with its square frame shoulders and wide rib barrel than the tapered barrel Model 15 (left) but if a Model 19 barrel was installed on a Model 14 it would overhang the frame slightly.

Here is one with a Pre Model 10 (far right) for comparison as well.

Interesting stuff..

 

[nipster]

^ I think you mean model 13, not 14.

 

[StrawHat]

^ I think you mean model 13, not 14.

Why? I thought the 13 came with fixed sights?

 

[Laurent]

Thanks for the very informative thread.

I didn't realized that M14 had such a beefy bull barrel (if I can say that). Is it particular to 4" M14?

And how about the frame of the 2" M15? Some author (Jinks or Supica) writes that it differs from the normal 4" M15. As you can see on the pic, the topstrap is straight, without any step. It's neither a M14/M19 frame, nor a M15's...

L.

 

[European]

I have a 4" model 15 and a 4" model 19. Both are great guns. I use the 15 (with WC handloads) for target shooting and the 19 (with 38 Spcl +P handloads) for IPSC-revolver. I've compared many times both revolvers side-by-side but this thread makes it easier to spot the differences. Thank you, Paladin85020.

 

[Engine49guy]

I didn't realized that M14 had such a beefy bull barrel (if I can say that). Is it particular to 4" M14?

And how about the frame of the 2" M15? Some author (Jinks or Supica) writes that it differs from the normal 4" M15. As you can see on the pic, the topstrap is straight, without any step. It's neither a M14/M19 frame, nor a M15's...

L.

S&W made a few runs of 4" Model 14's,
The one pictured with the 15 and 19 is similar in profile to the HB Model 10 & 13 but is a Model 14-2.

The 2" Model 15 snub is unique.
The barrel thickness, rib profile and frame topstrap are more like the Model 19's although it was not offered in round butt configuration.

The snub frames usually have a longer rear site that goes all the way to the barrel where it meets the front site ramp and the frame does not taper down to the barrel.

It is also interesting that when the Model 14 went to a full underlug the tapered barrel 15 was discontinued and the Model 15 began to look like the old Model 14 .

In their K22 counterparts it occurred in the dash 5 series guns.

 

[nipster]

Why? I thought the 13 came with fixed sights?

I completely glanced over that fact. I was unaware than 4" bull barrel model 14's existed. Thought it was a 13, since were discussing 357 mags. My bad.

I didn't realized that M14 had such a beefy bull barrel (if I can say that). Is it particular to 4" M14?

And how about the frame of the 2" M15? Some author (Jinks or Supica) writes that it differs from the normal 4" M15. As you can see on the pic, the topstrap is straight, without any step. It's neither a M14/M19 frame, nor a M15's...

Me either, that's why I love this place, you learn something every day.

 

[Laurent]

Thanks Engine49guy,

Is this M14 one of the Dayton Ohio PD guns mentionned in Supica & Nahas?

Very nice gun for sure but I don't see the rationals behind these special police orders for 4" M14 when the M15 was around. Maybe the bull barrel... for .38 special, come on? Neither behind the US Air Force 2" M15 in target configuration.

Anyway, the "cool factor" is high.

Thanks again for the science.

L.

 

[murphydog]

The 4" model 14-2 special run was made for Dayton Gun Headquarters, which was a large S & W dealer in the 1960s. Some of these may have made it into law enforcement but they were not ordered by the Dayton PD.

To me, it looks to have the bull barrel of a model 10-6 with a Baughman front sight on a base. Cool guns.

 

[linde]

I didn't realized that M14 had such a beefy bull barrel (if I can say that). Is it particular to 4" M14?

With apologies in advance to John for continuing the thread drift . . . may I help close the loop on the above question.

As reported by others, Dayton Gun Headquarters special ordered the Model 14-2 with an extra heavy 4 "bull" barrel as shown by Engine49guy in the middle of his beautiful trio. There were also other production runs of the 4" Model 14 that came with a factory cut conventional Model 14 barrel.

Here is a comparison picture . . . the Dayton 14-2 is on the right and the 14-3 is on the left.

The smooth top (but thinner) barrel rib and extra thick-walled barrel are unique to the Dayton Model 14-2s.

Russ

 

[Engine49guy]

Nice duo of 14's Russ,

Here is the model 15-6 that looks just like the 4" 14-3.